Free will is an unbiblical concept

[posthuman]

which you exercise to reject God and His Word

my question is whether the exercise of human free will ever results in anything other than what you say here.

because however binary we as humans try to frame the mystery, the fact is that both sovereign election / predestination is found in the scripture, and also free will / human agency. He says no one can come to Him without being drawn by Him, no one can see without being given eyes and grated that they be open etc, and He also judges, righteously, justly, the actions of men taken in their own agency.

is the only right exercise of human will to deny that very will and submit to His own?
we can't take credit for any good work. yet we stand rightly condemned for every evil work, assuaged only by His redemption. He chooses us; we choose evil. is our own will only towards the wrong? it often seems in retrospect that whenever i exercise my will, i do wrongly, and whenever i do rightly, it wasn't my will, but His working in me.

 

[garee]

That would mean God's kingdom is not true love, for they have no choice but to accept the truth seeing no other alternative.

True love is... He first loved us by giving us faith as that which comes from hearing Him needed to believe Him not seen . Our first experience of his labor of love working in us .

The Nicolaitane's denomination exchanged their love in respect to God not seen and rather followed after Nicole's as that seen private interpretation as a personal commentary to what he believed the Holy Spirit was teaching .
.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.(hearing God not seen) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (beleive God not seen) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; (not the churches private interpretation) To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.Revelation 2:4-7

 

[posthuman]

Free will is Biblical. You can voluntarily choose either evil or good.

Deuteronomy 30:19 New International Version (NIV)

This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

single-most-often quoted verse in support of human free will. pretty much a given in any conversation on the subject that this is what will be pointed to, and many times the only thing pointed to.

here's an interesting bit of context that's 9,999/10,000 times left out:

And the LORD said to Moses: ​

“You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake Me and break the covenant I made with them. And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide My face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’ And I will certainly hide My face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods."​

(Deuteronomy 31:16-18) ​

very next chapter.
despite the 'choice' set before them, despite the 'freely confirmed' obedience to the covenant the Israelites confirmed, after setting before them the blessing and the curse, and then proclaiming 'choose life' - the Law is read to them, and God tells Moses that they will surely not do as they have 'freely elected' to do.

foregone conclusion, brothers and sisters..

predestined to have our so-called 'free choice' negated . . ?
we think we're going to 'choose life' and we say so, but the truth is we will 'choose death'
your 'free-will' isn't as 'free' as you probably think; you're constrained.
it's Biblical, and we have to deal with the fact.
and it is good to do so, because this destroys our vanity

Christ alone sets free!!
and He chooses us, though we do not choose Him.

 

[garee]

is the only right exercise of human will to deny that very will and submit to His own?

I would offer. I see it more a responsibility than a right If he has begun the good work of His faith as a labor of His love of salvation in us.... we can be confident he will finish it to the end as those who do endure to the end . Philippians 1:6

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

my question is whether the exercise of human free will ever results in anything other than what you say here.

because however binary we as humans try to frame the mystery, the fact is that both sovereign election / predestination is found in the scripture, and also free will / human agency. He says no one can come to Him without being drawn by Him, no one can see without being given eyes and grated that they be open etc, and He also judges, righteously, justly, the actions of men taken in their own agency.

is the only right exercise of human will to deny that very will and submit to His own?
we can't take credit for any good work. yet we stand rightly condemned for every evil work, assuaged only by His redemption. He chooses us; we choose evil. is our own will only towards the wrong? it often seems in retrospect that whenever i exercise my will, i do wrongly, and whenever i do rightly, it wasn't my will, but His working in me.

First......... you prove to be a thinker, that is great. You pose great questions, not that you are questioning God, but posing, as a student questions that man has concerning the Word in study. The simple answer is -only GOD for SURE , knows who the predestined and elect are. Because for sure there is a predestined elect group. The lie, the maligning of this truth, in the teaching as though man knows this. This just because some answer the call, as Judas did . Lesson, many are called but few are chosen as elect. This from the foundation, but known only by God. this not fully known to man to keep out always the seed of satan ( in knowledge and the offspring) God does not allow man for sure to be confident in himself but rather gives confidence in Himself (God) that He is the one only who saves.The moral of the story humbleness in all we do in serving Christ. Assume nothing. For to remain in grace humility is required. And our end only for sure God knows. When we have ran our race and won we know for sure we are the predestined elected ones.

 

[posthuman]

The moral of the story humbleness in all we do in serving Christ

amen

​

Humility is the fear of the Lord;​

its wages are riches and honor and life.
(Proverbs 22:4)​

 

[UnderGrace]

my question is whether the exercise of human free will ever results in anything other than what you say here.

because however binary we as humans try to frame the mystery, the fact is that both sovereign election / predestination is found in the scripture, and also free will / human agency. He says no one can come to Him without being drawn by Him, no one can see without being given eyes and grated that they be open etc, and He also judges, righteously, justly, the actions of men taken in their own agency.

is the only right exercise of human will to deny that very will and submit to His own?
we can't take credit for any good work. yet we stand rightly condemned for every evil work, assuaged only by His redemption. He chooses us; we choose evil. is our own will only towards the wrong? it often seems in retrospect that whenever i exercise my will, i do wrongly, and whenever i do rightly, it wasn't my will, but His working in me.

So the unregenerated man who takes a bullet to protect his girlfriend has chosen evil then?

Not hypothetical a true situation.

The mystery is that were are far more complicated than the framework you have boxed man into.

 

[notuptome]

single-most-often quoted verse in support of human free will. pretty much a given in any conversation on the subject that this is what will be pointed to, and many times the only thing pointed to.

here's an interesting bit of context that's 9,999/10,000 times left out:

And the LORD said to Moses: ​

“You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. They will forsake Me and break the covenant I made with them. And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide My face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’ And I will certainly hide My face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods."​

(Deuteronomy 31:16-18) ​

very next chapter.
despite the 'choice' set before them, despite the 'freely confirmed' obedience to the covenant the Israelites confirmed, after setting before them the blessing and the curse, and then proclaiming 'choose life' - the Law is read to them, and God tells Moses that they will surely not do as they have 'freely elected' to do.

foregone conclusion, brothers and sisters..

predestined to have our so-called 'free choice' negated . . ?
we think we're going to 'choose life' and we say so, but the truth is we will 'choose death'
your 'free-will' isn't as 'free' as you probably think; you're constrained.
it's Biblical, and we have to deal with the fact.
and it is good to do so, because this destroys our vanity

Christ alone sets free!!
and He chooses us, though we do not choose Him.

Mans free will is completely contained within Gods sovereign will. Mans free will is not threat to Gods sovereign will. God allows man to choose that God will be glorified in the choice. God actually requires man to choose because when Adam sinned in the garden Adam received the knowledge of good and evil. Gods grace allows man to correct his first choice which is to sin with the better choice of repentance and eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

The OP addressed only one kind of free will: truly independent autonomy. Only God has that. However, the OP also employed the logical fallacy of equivocation by implying that true autonomy is the only meaning of free will there is, which is not true.

When discussing the subject of "free will" especially as it is contrasted with "predestination" we are not discussing true autonomy, but rather, limited autonomy to make decisions in this life, including the decision to live for Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

Mans free will is completely contained within Gods sovereign will. Mans free will is not threat to Gods sovereign will. God allows man to choose that God will be glorified in the choice. God actually requires man to choose because when Adam sinned in the garden Adam received the knowledge of good and evil. Gods grace allows man to correct his first choice which is to sin with the better choice of repentance and eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen!!!!

 

[pjharrison]

If God is all powerful, all knowing and totally Sovereign, there is no such thing as free will.
The idea of free will implies that there is a force outside of God's control.
That would mean that God is not omnipotent or Sovereign.
Where in the bible does it teach that human beings have free will? Hmm?

Claiming that we have "free will" is tantamount to self-deification because it dethrones God as King and replaces it with self.

That is exactly what free will is. Your own will, in stead of God's.

 

[UnderGrace]

The OP addressed only one kind of free will: truly independent autonomy. Only God has that. However, the OP also employed the logical fallacy of equivocation by implying that true autonomy is the only meaning of free will there is, which is not true.

When discussing the subject of "free will" especially as it is contrasted with "predestination" we are not discussing true autonomy, but rather, limited autonomy to make decisions in this life, including the decision to live for Christ.

So true!!

When people say the term "free will" they do not realize they are using terminolgy from classical Greek philosophy and therefore have already stepped outside of biblical teachings. The polar opposite of free will is complete determinism/predestination which is not biblical either.

 

[MichaelOwen]

God gives men free will to accept his son Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior or to follow Baal....think about Adam, Eve made the choice to accept what the serpent said to her, and she willingly sinned by eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and Adam also willingly partook of the fruit that Eve offered him....they knew God's commandment, yet they still chose to sin. David, he knew adultery was wrong, even a man after God's own heart, still saw Bathsheba and saw she was lovely, and lusted after her, even though he knew it was wrong.....so free will is not Biblical? Better make sure you read the Word carefully and Spiritually

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

So the unregenerated man who takes a bullet to protect his girlfriend has chosen evil then?

Not hypothetical a true situation.

The mystery is that were are far more complicated than the framework you have boxed man into.

QUESTIONS GOD AS LUCIFER!

 

[UnderGrace]

QUESTIONS GOD AS LUCIFER!

There is no Lucifer only the devil.

I see you are not familiar with Latin just ELA, you need to broaden your horizons.

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

So true!!

When people say the term "free will" they do not realize they are using terminolgy from classical Greek philosophy and therefore have already stepped outside of biblical teachings. The polar opposite of free will is complete determinism/predestination which is not biblical either.

So the unregenerated man who takes a bullet to protect his girlfriend has chosen evil then?

Not hypothetical a true situation.

The mystery is that were are far more complicated than the framework you have boxed man into.

When one has been systematically dismantled by the Word , they pose a new question not relevant to the discussion. If that man is a satanist or a denier of Christ in any way , it doesn't matter what he died for , he did not die for Christ. Again another false interpretation of what Christ said. : " No greater gift is there given, than a man lay down HIS life for His friends. And I call you my friends." He is the greatest gift given, and HE is who has laid down His life for His friends, those who BELIEVE IN HIM. And those who do the same as Him, in Him is who HE is speaking of. This is funny coming from one who touts , "NOT BY WORKS". HYPOCRITE!

 

[Locutus]

Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."

 

[UnderGrace]

When one has been systematically dismantled by the Word , they pose a new question not relevant to the discussion. If that man is a satanist or a denier of Christ in any way , it doesn't matter what he died for , he did not die for Christ. Again another false interpretation of what Christ said. : " No greater gift is there given, than a man lay down HIS life for His friends. And I call you my friends." He is the greatest gift given, and HE is who has laid down His life for His friends, those who BELIEVE IN HIM. And those who do the same as Him, in Him is who HE is speaking of. This is funny coming from one who touts , "NOT BY WORKS". HYPOCRITE!

That was not my point at all. Did I mention it as a good work for salvation? NO

I doubt I will reply to anything you post again unless it is to correct your false doctrines of which I see many starting with Mary Queen of Heaven.

 

[UnderGrace]

Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."

Wise words!! Thank you!!

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

There is no Lucifer only the devil.

I see you are not familiar with Latin just ELA, you need to broaden your horizons.

Again , you ignore the scriptures which have revealed his former name.

The name Lucifer appears once in the OT and is a revealing of his given name before the fall. All arch angels have names.
His was light Bearer Means Lucifer in interpretation.
Where is the word Lucifer in the Bible?
The Hebrew word, transliterated as Hêlêl or Heylel (pron. as Hay-LALE) , occurs once in the Hebrew Bible and according to that Hebrew word translation means "shining one, light-bearer". The Septuagint renders הֵילֵל in Greek as Ἑωσφόρος (heōsphoros), a name, literally "bringer of dawn", from that- interpreted from the Greek to spell out Lucifer.

Satan means (Betrayer of God). which is what he did and what he is called from that point on. But to say it is not in scripture is a lie AGAIN!
and all who betray God are called this who abide in Lucifer Light Bearer and father of lies.


2 Corinthians 11:14
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

This when he presents his doctrine as truth.

Very knowledgeable in ELA and Greek and Hebrew because the Lord IS. You obviously , even though trying to quote something in Greek can not do the cross over to English. And most definitely know nothing of the Hebrew which revealed satan's pre - fall name. Satan is what he is now called. GOT IT , BETRAYER OF GOD?