Free will verses permissive will
- Thread starter Jordon
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Well Good day folks now that latest squabble is over hopefully, I thought I would express something else I feel is important to understanding the lords permissive will and this free will idea people have
I believe that every single verse in the bible spoken by any individual expressing God's word, is coming directly from the lords faith, and not a person own faith.
I believe there all messages spoke to a persons heart, whether there expressing how they should conduct themselves before being saved and after is by God , and whilst it may be that some verses can look as if a person can have faith by themselves, it's not the case, there always expressing what God has told them to do, and what they should do.
I believe also this is not something that comes from a persons own will, or by what people call free will.
There always only expressing God's permissive will his word his ways and his faith.
I believe strongly it's only ever Gods permissive will that is being expressed in the bible.
I believe a person has freedom to do what he wants, but having free will over God is impossible, the freedom a person will have with God is when there in his loving arms feeling his warmth grace and treasures.
I believe that every single verse in the bible spoken by any individual expressing God's word, is coming directly from the lords faith, and not a person own faith.
I believe there all messages spoke to a persons heart, whether there expressing how they should conduct themselves before being saved and after is by God , and whilst it may be that some verses can look as if a person can have faith by themselves, it's not the case, there always expressing what God has told them to do, and what they should do.
I believe also this is not something that comes from a persons own will, or by what people call free will.
There always only expressing God's permissive will his word his ways and his faith.
I believe strongly it's only ever Gods permissive will that is being expressed in the bible.
I believe a person has freedom to do what he wants, but having free will over God is impossible, the freedom a person will have with God is when there in his loving arms feeling his warmth grace and treasures.
Good day folks, just a quick one and a very important one.
Today I've been asked could I devine human will, well is it really important ?Hopefully for anyone taking any notice, human will is assigned to the flesh
John
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
The word became flesh and dwelt with us so that the will of the flesh could be ruled over
Anyone see God's permissive will here ?
Today I've been asked could I devine human will, well is it really important ?Hopefully for anyone taking any notice, human will is assigned to the flesh
John
12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us
The word became flesh and dwelt with us so that the will of the flesh could be ruled over
Anyone see God's permissive will here ?
Perhaps you should read the six words after the ones you bolded.
Quoting Scripture does not define the word as you are using it.
Good day folks Human will is assigned to there flesh, which means it has a will of it's own, that can not make spiritual decisions,
What else does it clearly mean, it means God makes the spiritual decision for us, in such as whom he saves,
Because our souls are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.
Flesh has a will of it's own it can't live with God and it has to be cut off on a daily bases,
Anyone see God's permissive will here
What else does it clearly mean, it means God makes the spiritual decision for us, in such as whom he saves,
Because our souls are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.
Flesh has a will of it's own it can't live with God and it has to be cut off on a daily bases,
Anyone see God's permissive will here
Your own statements have absolutely no evidentiary value for supporting your thesis.
Life Through the Spirit
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Anyone see God's permissive will here or God helping us with our infirmities
Ive bolded yet another word of God that clearly says the will of the flesh has no value to God.
There's hundreds more for you.
Permissive will verses free will
JOHN 1 Declares human will lives in the flesh
In the next verse we will see what happening to the will the flesh
Life Through the Spirit
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,
here we see the will of flesh going against Gods active will which can only happen from an internal war between two wills, God's will and man's will.
[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Her we see why the will of the flesh man's free will needed to be over powered by God's permissive will. And again it's speaks about the battle of two wills inside a person, man's free will and the lords permissive will.
Ok now let's look at Romans. 8 again
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires
So here we see the complete picture of God's permissive will verses man's free will.
Which will wins, but the most important question here is does God value human will ?
JOHN 1 Declares human will lives in the flesh
In the next verse we will see what happening to the will the flesh
Life Through the Spirit
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,
here we see the will of flesh going against Gods active will which can only happen from an internal war between two wills, God's will and man's will.
[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Her we see why the will of the flesh man's free will needed to be over powered by God's permissive will. And again it's speaks about the battle of two wills inside a person, man's free will and the lords permissive will.
Ok now let's look at Romans. 8 again
Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires
So here we see the complete picture of God's permissive will verses man's free will.
Which will wins, but the most important question here is does God value human will ?
No, it does not. Not anywhere.
Please proofread your posts before submitting them. The next verse after John 1 is John 2:1.
That's a printer's heading, not Scripture.
That's Romans 8, not John 1.
No, what we see is that the Law could not bring life because of flesh. Nothing is said about the will, either human or divine.
Again, no. You might see that, but it's not there for anyone else to see. Nothing is said about "two wills". No hint is made of God's permissive will. This passage is about Jesus being sent as a man to be the sin offering for mankind, and His sacrifice is effective for those who live according to the Spirit... because they have believed in Him.
I thought that's what we were doing....
Again, you see things that just aren't there to see. That is the essence of eisegesis.
How is that the most important question when those concepts aren't even in the text... anywhere? Even if they were, what would make that the most important question?
Those who "live according to the flesh" are not "overpowered by God's permissive will"; rather, they remain condemned.
Your concept of "permissive will" doesn't jibe with anything I have encountered in decades of Christian reading. Perhaps you need to find a good theology text, or better yet, take a course with a competent instructor.
all I can say sir is your on a very slippery backside, you've gone of the rails.
Your just so determined to prove everything wrong, and for what ?
For your selfish pride and your so called free will, that you think has good sound morals.
But no it doesn't because your twisted imagination just keeps telling lie after lie about me and fabricating everything I say and distorting every truth I write, along with not acknowledging every truth I write,
No sir your wrong.
Your right to laugh at human free will Dino for once, because it is a joke, but it's also a joke to God
But you should be cutting it of daily as scripture says, if the will of your flesh, ie your right eye offends you pluck it out.
Human will does.not have any good morals anymore, and it has no value to God.
Your told to die to yourself daily because human Nature is corrupted.
For the last time John 1 declares Human will lives in the flesh
John 1
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
To the people who received him they received him not by the will born out of the flesh but by the will of God.
The will of the flesh can not receive him neither can it choose to believe in him.
Only by the will of a God can a persons soul receive him in hope
Scripture declares it is by hope you where saved.
But you should be cutting it of daily as scripture says, if the will of your flesh, ie your right eye offends you pluck it out.
Human will does.not have any good morals anymore, and it has no value to God.
Your told to die to yourself daily because human Nature is corrupted.
For the last time John 1 declares Human will lives in the flesh
John 1
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
To the people who received him they received him not by the will born out of the flesh but by the will of God.
The will of the flesh can not receive him neither can it choose to believe in him.
Only by the will of a God can a persons soul receive him in hope
Scripture declares it is by hope you where saved.
Fixed it for you, since you didn’t see this before.
You have the words in the wrong order.
No, it says by faith you were saved.
not sure why your saying the will of flesh is not the will of man
What is it your saying are you saying the will of man is not the will of the flesh also ?
John 1:12-13, which states that those who believe in Jesus are given the right to become children of God
but this is not through human will or ancestry
The will of the flesh is the same as the of man the will of man which means human will of the flesh through ancestry to, which means the will of the flesh passed on through ancestry is the will of man
Fixed it for you
If they are the same thing, why does John distinguish them by mentioning them separately?