A
amazed
Guest
It is all about rebellion against God .. the bible says rebellion is as witchcraft .. why would any church want to marry people practicing witchcraft?
Gay couple to sue church over gay marriage opt-out
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I will tell you the ''superior'' position...God's. God's truth never changes. The world can believe anything it wants to, it does not change the truth and truth, if its truth, can never be subjective. If truth can be anything a person wants it to be, then there is no truth and morality does not exist.
Which is the point. This is the goal of satan, to confuse and deceive and say truth is up to the person who perceives it.
The Truth is Jesus Christ.
The subjectivity of what a christian should be is not debatable. Its biblical and the bible is not only clear on what sin is, it also says we can overcome.
There are homosexual men who have been saved and now are married heterosexual men.
I would prefer that all families live under God. Since that cannot be true, then I would prefer them to live under biblical principle.
What may not be clear is..this isn't about preferable moralities. This is about w3hat is right and what is wrong and what HURTS people. Homosexuality always hurts those who practice it as any sin hurts those who practice it, embraces it, or excuses it.
That's why Truth will always be truth. Doing the opposite of that is very bad for you, for any human, no matter where they grew up, the color of their skin or the bad experiences they have had.
Jesus Christ is God and is alive.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
So every judge in the world should step down immediately and societies rapidly deteriorate into lawless chaos? All criminals should be immediately freed and allowed to do whatever they want (including murder, assault, extortion, robbery, organized crime, etc...) because no one has the right to judge another?
How about we give them all your address and your promise that if they come stay with you, they won't be "judged."
Lol.
Obviously Jesus taught not to judge at all if we judge others the way the Pharisees did and to remove our own blindness beforehand.
But did you read 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 with regard to judging people in the church? It says,"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."
In other words, God sanctioned the office of earthly governing authorities (see Romans 13) outside the church. That's why it's Biblical that earthly judges implement a godly rule of law and judge those who break it (note: this is not to be confused with governments wrongly implementing ungodly laws).
Inside the church, we judge those who grossly violate God's moral law (see 1 Corinthians 5) in our midst. We don't do this as the Pharisees did, we do examine ourselves and deal with our own hearts and lives beforehand, and we do follow the Biblical model for it (see 'https://bible.org/article/church-discipline'.
I should stop here but allow me to digress. In your view, if a married pastor at your church begins having an affair behind his wife's back and murders the mistress so his wife doesn't find out you will simply smile and say "I'll never judge that man for anything he ever does. Praise the Lord!"
Really? What if he does it again? At what point DO you ever judge anyone even to save life?
Is it really loving your neighbor, or even the perpetrators themselves, to enable their wickedness through turning a blind eye to it rather than judging it for what it is and holding them accountable?
The Bible and common sense says to hold them accountable. Stopping a murderer is the most loving thing you can do. Removing such a leader from their position and turning them into the earthly authorities for judgment and punishment IS the most loving thing to do. "Remove the wicked man [or woman] from yourselves."
The historical background of the Corinthian church is interesting. It has long been recognized by Biblical historical scholars that many of the problems Paul addresses in the church at Corinth are grounded in their wrong thinking that was a result of the Hellenism and mystical cults that had spread across the Roman Empire from the East which many of the gentile believers had followed before becoming Christians.
Plato had taught that the body was the tomb of the soul; that death brought liberation from physical captivity; that already in this life one could transcend the negative arena of matter by a higher knowledge of ultimate reality. Various Hellenistic cults offered immortality via union with the god or gods, sometimes symbolized or achieved through cultic prostitution.
Within such a religious philosophical climate, Paul’s teaching regarding freedom “in Christ” and life “in the Spirit” was all too often, and particularly at Corinth, perverted into an enthusiastic libertinism that rejected moral restraints, particularly in the realm of the physical.
The proper response, both to the intolerable case of sexual immorality as well as to their imagined philosophical superiorities, should have been mourning. A repentant attitude would inevitably lead to the removal of the gross immoral offender from their church and fellowship.
That some form of excommunication is intended is clear not only from 1 Corinthians 5:2, but from the Passover analogy in 1 Corinthians 5:6–8 (“Get rid of the old yeast”) and the citation of Deuteronomy 17:7 (“Expel the wicked man from among you”—1 Cor 5:13). The nature of the removal is expressed in the ambiguous phrase “hand this man over to Satan.” Its purpose is twofold: (1) that his “sinful nature” or “flesh” would be destroyed and (2) that his “spirit” would be saved (1 Cor 5:5).
The phrase “hand over to Satan” must be recognized in some figurative, metaphorical sense, since a person literally abandoned to Satan would seem to be lost irrevocably. Yet here such an end is not envisioned.
How about we give them all your address and your promise that if they come stay with you, they won't be "judged."
Lol.
Obviously Jesus taught not to judge at all if we judge others the way the Pharisees did and to remove our own blindness beforehand.
But did you read 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 with regard to judging people in the church? It says,"For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."
In other words, God sanctioned the office of earthly governing authorities (see Romans 13) outside the church. That's why it's Biblical that earthly judges implement a godly rule of law and judge those who break it (note: this is not to be confused with governments wrongly implementing ungodly laws).
Inside the church, we judge those who grossly violate God's moral law (see 1 Corinthians 5) in our midst. We don't do this as the Pharisees did, we do examine ourselves and deal with our own hearts and lives beforehand, and we do follow the Biblical model for it (see 'https://bible.org/article/church-discipline'.
I should stop here but allow me to digress. In your view, if a married pastor at your church begins having an affair behind his wife's back and murders the mistress so his wife doesn't find out you will simply smile and say "I'll never judge that man for anything he ever does. Praise the Lord!"
Really? What if he does it again? At what point DO you ever judge anyone even to save life?
Is it really loving your neighbor, or even the perpetrators themselves, to enable their wickedness through turning a blind eye to it rather than judging it for what it is and holding them accountable?
The Bible and common sense says to hold them accountable. Stopping a murderer is the most loving thing you can do. Removing such a leader from their position and turning them into the earthly authorities for judgment and punishment IS the most loving thing to do. "Remove the wicked man [or woman] from yourselves."
The historical background of the Corinthian church is interesting. It has long been recognized by Biblical historical scholars that many of the problems Paul addresses in the church at Corinth are grounded in their wrong thinking that was a result of the Hellenism and mystical cults that had spread across the Roman Empire from the East which many of the gentile believers had followed before becoming Christians.
Plato had taught that the body was the tomb of the soul; that death brought liberation from physical captivity; that already in this life one could transcend the negative arena of matter by a higher knowledge of ultimate reality. Various Hellenistic cults offered immortality via union with the god or gods, sometimes symbolized or achieved through cultic prostitution.
Within such a religious philosophical climate, Paul’s teaching regarding freedom “in Christ” and life “in the Spirit” was all too often, and particularly at Corinth, perverted into an enthusiastic libertinism that rejected moral restraints, particularly in the realm of the physical.
The proper response, both to the intolerable case of sexual immorality as well as to their imagined philosophical superiorities, should have been mourning. A repentant attitude would inevitably lead to the removal of the gross immoral offender from their church and fellowship.
That some form of excommunication is intended is clear not only from 1 Corinthians 5:2, but from the Passover analogy in 1 Corinthians 5:6–8 (“Get rid of the old yeast”) and the citation of Deuteronomy 17:7 (“Expel the wicked man from among you”—1 Cor 5:13). The nature of the removal is expressed in the ambiguous phrase “hand this man over to Satan.” Its purpose is twofold: (1) that his “sinful nature” or “flesh” would be destroyed and (2) that his “spirit” would be saved (1 Cor 5:5).
The phrase “hand over to Satan” must be recognized in some figurative, metaphorical sense, since a person literally abandoned to Satan would seem to be lost irrevocably. Yet here such an end is not envisioned.
A
Adinah
Guest
Well, at least an atheist couple would be honest about their beliefs. They say they don't believe in God. A so-called Christian gay couple? That's a lie in itself, to be a practicing gay and say you're a Christian. You say you're with Christ but don't do what he says? You're a liar. The truth is not in you.
D
Daniel94
Guest
There really is no need to keep repeating that homosexuality is a sin. I got it the first time. If sin is any way to judge someone as being fit or unfit to raise a child then we are all unfit parents as we all sin, past, present, and future.
I did not say that the hypothetical gay couple professed to be Christians. I said they believe in God. Someone can believe in God without identifying with a religion.
I didn't say children are stupid nor do I think that. Children who grow up with heterosexual parents can grow up in just as much confusion and unnaturalness if not more. Not to mention if the parents don't even believe in God then they will be raised even further from God than the child who grows up with parents who do believe, even if they don't identify with Christianity. Oh yeah, let's not forget the kids who grow up without a parent at all, the ones who feel God does not love them because they did not have parents. Some kids grow up in awful circumstances and I really don't think providing those children with people, no matter what gender, orientation, or relationship status, who love them will hurt them. They are people just like you and me and will be capable of forming their own opinion, even if they take up the wrong side it is still their decision to make. Honestly, I have talked with people who have had Christian parents and because of their parents they turned from Christ. Just the opposite is true as well. There have been people who grew up not knowing God, but they found Him. Nothing is impossible for God so by a child having two fathers or two mothers does not mean that child will not ever know God and for that reason I think it unfair to let a child suffer because we are too close minded to allow two capable men or two capable women raise a child.
I did not say truth can be whatever anyone wants it to be. For certain things, like murder, there is a universal agreement that it is wrong, unless something is mentally wrong that makes someone think its okay. All I'm trying to say is no matter how right you are, you can't use that to force others who do not believe as you do to abide by your beliefs. Unless of course it is something that directly affects the population as a whole, like murder. Homosexuality does not affect you or any other straight person. In fact the sexual history of anyone else on the planet does not affect you nor is it any of your business unless you are planning to have sex with them.
There have also been gay men who have gotten married after a so-called change in their life and then years later they come out as gay again and say there was never a change and they lived a lie. Just because they got married and say they aren't gay does not mean they are not gay.
You are absolutely right about gay people being hurt. We get hurt when our families reject us, we get hurt when we're called, perverts, freaks, pedophiles, we get hurt when someone makes a joke at our expense, we get hurt when we our bullied for our orientation, and we get hurt when we're told we're going to burn in Hell.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Even the devil and demons believe in God. If they could raise children I believe they would look like a number of immoral, addicted, and evil young adults I've seen come out of homes where one parent divorced their spouse and began engaging in homosexual behavior imparting to their children a very different worldview than genuine Biblical Christianity.
The truth is that homosexuals can be some of the meanest most hurtful people on the planet. I've seen some really nasty back biting homosexuals that just tear people to pieces to their face and behind their back with malicious gossip pushing past the point of costing people their jobs and marriages.
Don't bother trying to convince me of the "morality" of the homosexual spirit because I have observed that godliness doesn't arise from immorality. God's design works best. Genuine committed Christian marriages (obviously with one biological male [from birth] and one biological female [from birth]) have the highest success rate. Everything else deteriorates from there.
Christian couples who stated, “God is the center of our marriage,” are 26 percent more likely than all other Christians to claim to be “Very Happy” in marriage (that’s 76% -husbands and 77% – wives), with only 1% of husbands and wives stating a proneness toward divorce which is far and away better than any other demographic.
Homosexual studies show that homosexual couples cheat like crazy on each other, married or not, and "Christian" or not with the other "partner" usually knowing. A maligned view of Christianity plus gross immorality deceives the children who take on a disingenuous worldview and whom often live immoral lives themselves.
The truth is that homosexuals can be some of the meanest most hurtful people on the planet. I've seen some really nasty back biting homosexuals that just tear people to pieces to their face and behind their back with malicious gossip pushing past the point of costing people their jobs and marriages.
Don't bother trying to convince me of the "morality" of the homosexual spirit because I have observed that godliness doesn't arise from immorality. God's design works best. Genuine committed Christian marriages (obviously with one biological male [from birth] and one biological female [from birth]) have the highest success rate. Everything else deteriorates from there.
Christian couples who stated, “God is the center of our marriage,” are 26 percent more likely than all other Christians to claim to be “Very Happy” in marriage (that’s 76% -husbands and 77% – wives), with only 1% of husbands and wives stating a proneness toward divorce which is far and away better than any other demographic.
Homosexual studies show that homosexual couples cheat like crazy on each other, married or not, and "Christian" or not with the other "partner" usually knowing. A maligned view of Christianity plus gross immorality deceives the children who take on a disingenuous worldview and whom often live immoral lives themselves.
The truth is that heterosexuals can be some of the meanest most hurtful people on the planet. I've seen some really mean heterosexuals that just tear gays to pieces to their face and behind their back with malicious gossip with relatives and "Christian" friends pushing past the point of costing gays their lives because of the stress and bitterness poured out onto them.
Do you know how horrible it is having families that reject them for the fact that they are attracted to the same sex? Even if you think it's a sin to be attracted to the same sex (the Bible speaks of acts, not an attraction) as a Christian aren't you supposed to be loving towards them no matter what?
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Paul had the Holy Spirit of God and guiding his ministry/words and God IS an expert on sex and ethics. Normally I'd say nice try but this one is a no brainer.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Spirit filled Christians producing the fruit of the Holy Spirit (note the word HOLY) which are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23) aren't the ones doing that.
And for the record, pointing out that immorality is deviant unholiness is truthful and if you do it with love then it is also loving.
There doesn't look to be a whole lot that's gay about sexual immorality to me. Just a lot of immersing oneself in spiritually lawless carnal sinful lust and partying followed by the inevitable spiritual (and sometimes physical) consequences.
Reminds me of all the friends I had growing up that got involved in drugs and fornicating. They told me how God created drugs and sex and they were just enjoying what God created.
When I run across them these days, they are burnt out from years of sin... spiritually deceived and lost. They paid a price with their families too for choosing a life of addiction and sexual immorality. Interestingly, the ones that recovered were the ones whose parents showed them some tough love letting them experience the consequences of their sinful lifestyle choices.
The answer to your question has already been answered. We love the person but hate their sin. If they are lost, we love them enough to tell them the truth much like you're getting in this thread.
If they are Christians amongst us, then they are subject to church discipline explained in a previous post in this thread as per God's Word.
It's that simple.
And, it doesn't look to me like you took the time to read the thread but are instead simply posting emotionally. Go back and read through the whole thread. Peace.
And for the record, pointing out that immorality is deviant unholiness is truthful and if you do it with love then it is also loving.
There doesn't look to be a whole lot that's gay about sexual immorality to me. Just a lot of immersing oneself in spiritually lawless carnal sinful lust and partying followed by the inevitable spiritual (and sometimes physical) consequences.
Reminds me of all the friends I had growing up that got involved in drugs and fornicating. They told me how God created drugs and sex and they were just enjoying what God created.
When I run across them these days, they are burnt out from years of sin... spiritually deceived and lost. They paid a price with their families too for choosing a life of addiction and sexual immorality. Interestingly, the ones that recovered were the ones whose parents showed them some tough love letting them experience the consequences of their sinful lifestyle choices.
The answer to your question has already been answered. We love the person but hate their sin. If they are lost, we love them enough to tell them the truth much like you're getting in this thread.
If they are Christians amongst us, then they are subject to church discipline explained in a previous post in this thread as per God's Word.
It's that simple.
And, it doesn't look to me like you took the time to read the thread but are instead simply posting emotionally. Go back and read through the whole thread. Peace.
C
Cino
Guest
The church has the right to refuse to do anything against their beliefs. It may be legal, but the church has the right to say it is against their religious belief. And we as Christians can do things that are legal, but have to stand up for the word of God. Gay marriage may be legal, but what does the word of God say about it? And if the government wants to make it a legal entity, they cannot force the church or individuals to change their belief. If that were the case, where does freedom of religion come in? If they start allowing things in the church, then all kinds of sins will be rampant throughout the church, and this is definitely a tool of the devil, and the church will not be clean from these sins. There are other things in this world that are legal, but we don't allow them in the church. What is the difference then between Christians and non Christians if we allow these things in the church? I think these people are just the type of people who are trying to push their point and just make trouble for trouble's sake, or maybe popularity sake. They are the ones who just have to push the mark.
I did read the whole thread.
The Bible never speaks of a same-sex attraction as sin. You can still be tempted to act on your same-sex attractions but you can resist the temptation. That's why we have many Christians out there who are celibate because they have same-sex attractions.
Now, sometimes other Christians don't get that, and they end up hurting people very largely spiritually because of their actions towards them having a same-sex attraction. I say so from experience.
Just because you are married doesn't mean you can't be an "expert" on sex.
If a pastor was celibate but was teaching about sex, you wouldn't say "oh, well he isn't married" and invalidate what he said.
Anyways, yes, heterosexual couples do have anal sex in the same way gay ones do; but we shouldn't use a particular sex act as justification for saying we shouldn't do it. (sorry to be so blunt!)
''I did not say truth can be whatever anyone wants it to be. For certain things, like murder, there is a universal agreement that it is wrong, unless something is mentally wrong that makes someone think its okay. All I'm trying to say is no matter how right you are, you can't use that to force others who do not believe as you do to abide by your beliefs. Unless of course it is something that directly affects the population as a whole, like murder. Homosexuality does not affect you or any other straight person. In fact the sexual history of anyone else on the planet does not affect you nor is it any of your business unless you are planning to have sex with them.
There have also been gay men who have gotten married after a so-called change in their life and then years later they come out as gay again and say there was never a change and they lived a lie. Just because they got married and say they aren't gay does not mean they are not gay.
You are absolutely right about gay people being hurt. We get hurt when our families reject us, we get hurt when we're called, perverts, freaks, pedophiles, we get hurt when someone makes a joke at our expense, we get hurt when we our bullied for our orientation, and we get hurt when we're told we're going to burn in Hell. ''
There are countries that excuse murder, its not a world wide ethic....and abortion is murder yet quite legal in this united states of america.
Stating positions is not forcing any morality upon another. In a free society, and its still free until the leftists and their political correctness take over, there is open debate on topics. That forces nothing on anyone.
However, all laws are moral. We literally have millions of laws in this country, all of them forcing a morality upon others. That is what law does, its all it does. Government is designed to control people...period. That is why our founding fathers put limits on what the government could do.
That...is freedom. The acceptance of personal responsibility...and with no moral standard, when the stabndard is live and let live, people get hurt.
Oh, the promotion of homosexuality hurts society. Its a direct attack on the foundation of society, the family, as I argued earlier.
What is worse, it seems you are overlooking a major concern of every christian on this issue...homosexuality hurts those who practice it. Physically, as in the case of male homosexuality, and spiritually.
Having sex....is an extremely mature, adult thing to do and not something just thrown around. It should never be done outside a very serious and permanent commitment. The bible only makes one sin different than any other..and that is sex. Sexual immorality is the only sin against the body. There are reasons for that which I have stated before.
I am sorry homosexuals are rejected. I don't think we should reject someone just because of their sin, no matter what their sin is.
However, the wages of sin are death. There are consequences to actions. When someone engages in perversion ( and I will explain that later ) the world will tend to reject them.
Perversion is acting out in an abnormal way. Homosexuality is a perversion because the human body was not designed for that activity. A person acting in an abnormal way is a pervert. I presume you will try to say what is abnormal, but in this case, its quite clear...the body was not designed for homosexual activity. Its abnormal.
People make jokes about my minority status too..white male, heterosexual, married republican christian. Eh. Its life.
All unsaved people will burn in hell. Now I do not think its a good evangelic tool to yell that at people, but it is the truth.
No one should ever be bullied. No one should ever hate someone because they sin. That would be very hypocritical since we all sin. I do not want any homosexual to think I hate them because of what they do.
I hate what they are doing because it hurts them.
There have also been gay men who have gotten married after a so-called change in their life and then years later they come out as gay again and say there was never a change and they lived a lie. Just because they got married and say they aren't gay does not mean they are not gay.
You are absolutely right about gay people being hurt. We get hurt when our families reject us, we get hurt when we're called, perverts, freaks, pedophiles, we get hurt when someone makes a joke at our expense, we get hurt when we our bullied for our orientation, and we get hurt when we're told we're going to burn in Hell. ''
There are countries that excuse murder, its not a world wide ethic....and abortion is murder yet quite legal in this united states of america.
Stating positions is not forcing any morality upon another. In a free society, and its still free until the leftists and their political correctness take over, there is open debate on topics. That forces nothing on anyone.
However, all laws are moral. We literally have millions of laws in this country, all of them forcing a morality upon others. That is what law does, its all it does. Government is designed to control people...period. That is why our founding fathers put limits on what the government could do.
That...is freedom. The acceptance of personal responsibility...and with no moral standard, when the stabndard is live and let live, people get hurt.
Oh, the promotion of homosexuality hurts society. Its a direct attack on the foundation of society, the family, as I argued earlier.
What is worse, it seems you are overlooking a major concern of every christian on this issue...homosexuality hurts those who practice it. Physically, as in the case of male homosexuality, and spiritually.
Having sex....is an extremely mature, adult thing to do and not something just thrown around. It should never be done outside a very serious and permanent commitment. The bible only makes one sin different than any other..and that is sex. Sexual immorality is the only sin against the body. There are reasons for that which I have stated before.
I am sorry homosexuals are rejected. I don't think we should reject someone just because of their sin, no matter what their sin is.
However, the wages of sin are death. There are consequences to actions. When someone engages in perversion ( and I will explain that later ) the world will tend to reject them.
Perversion is acting out in an abnormal way. Homosexuality is a perversion because the human body was not designed for that activity. A person acting in an abnormal way is a pervert. I presume you will try to say what is abnormal, but in this case, its quite clear...the body was not designed for homosexual activity. Its abnormal.
People make jokes about my minority status too..white male, heterosexual, married republican christian. Eh. Its life.
All unsaved people will burn in hell. Now I do not think its a good evangelic tool to yell that at people, but it is the truth.
No one should ever be bullied. No one should ever hate someone because they sin. That would be very hypocritical since we all sin. I do not want any homosexual to think I hate them because of what they do.
I hate what they are doing because it hurts them.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Yes I find myself in the same boat. I almost got married before I became a Christian but she ran off with my best friend to another state and I never saw either of them again... lol.
Afterwards, I became very involved with working full time and going to college at night plus doing ministry on the side for many years and never ended up marrying. Being a genuine committed Christian, I remained celibate all these years.
I've gotten the same thing from people at times. I've had people ask me directly if I'm a homosexual because they've never seen me dating but instead working so hard. I just laughed and told them no I'm attracted to women very much but am one of the guys that got focused on work, education, and ministry and just didn't have the time left over.
Obviously, people are not robots that must have sex. I know enough single people that aren't fornicating or engaging in homosexual acts with other people to know that humans can be godly people with His help if they choose to be. I'm one of them.
Now that I've completed all of my educational goals and the job market is so weak, I finally am in a place to start dating again. So who knows what the future holds.
Peace.
Afterwards, I became very involved with working full time and going to college at night plus doing ministry on the side for many years and never ended up marrying. Being a genuine committed Christian, I remained celibate all these years.
I've gotten the same thing from people at times. I've had people ask me directly if I'm a homosexual because they've never seen me dating but instead working so hard. I just laughed and told them no I'm attracted to women very much but am one of the guys that got focused on work, education, and ministry and just didn't have the time left over.
Obviously, people are not robots that must have sex. I know enough single people that aren't fornicating or engaging in homosexual acts with other people to know that humans can be godly people with His help if they choose to be. I'm one of them.
Now that I've completed all of my educational goals and the job market is so weak, I finally am in a place to start dating again. So who knows what the future holds.
Peace.
Not all gays, lesbians, or bisexuals actually have sex. Like I said, some remain celibate to please God. Keep that in mind.
D
Daniel94
Guest
Yes, the devil and demons do believe in God, but is it not their goal to make us not believe, to turn us away from God? If a child grows up with parents who do not believe in God then as I said that child will be starting their life as far away from God as one could get. If said child grows up with a parent who teaches that God is real, even if that parent does not identify with a religion, then at least that child will not be denying the existence of God. Although, as I have already said a couple times a child can grow up to be completely opposite of what their parents attempt to raise them to be.
The truth is some heterosexuals are just the same. Some can be worse. When did it become okay to use the extremes to judge a group of people? That would be like someone using Westboro to judge all Christians as psychotic.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of the morality of homosexuality. Honestly, I'm beginning to think no one is actually reading my replies, but just skimming them. Just because I point out that people have different views on what is and is not moral does not mean I am trying to make anyone change their own beliefs nor am I attempting to force mine on anyone. I have also never said my own opinion about the morality of homosexuality so if you and everyone else who has took it upon themselves to form my opinion for me would kindly stop I would greatly appreciate it.
How many non-Christians were in this study? How many Christians? How many people in all? How many were previously divorced? What about those older than age 46? What's the probability of someone lying? What about those married without children? What about income? Number of children? Type of job? What is considered proneness to divorce? All of those are questions that need to be answered.Christian couples who stated, “God is the center of our marriage,” are 26 percent more likely than all other Christians to claim to be “Very Happy” in marriage (that’s 76% -husbands and 77% – wives), with only 1% of husbands and wives stating a proneness toward divorce which is far and away better than any other demographic.
I believe what you're describing is called an open relationship. Heterosexuals participate in open relationships as well. Your'e furthering my belief that you're only skimming my posts. I said the hypothetical couple, who by the way are monogamous, may believe in God while the atheist couple would not. No where have I said the hypothetical couple are Christians. Who do you know that would adopt a child with someone if they're in an open relationship with that person? If they have an open relationship then they are clearly not ready for a child and I would think instead of targeting them you should be focusing on the places letting people in open relationships adopt kids. Honestly, you guys say some of the most extreme things. You think of the worst possible thing and you throw it out here. Have any of you ever actually talked with a monogamous gay couple? Not too different from a straight couple.
What countries excuse murder? Please share it with us all. Also, if you would be so kind as to provide your sources for that information.
Exactly. All I have been doing is stating the position someone may have and you've accused me of saying my opinion, which I still have not given, is superior than yours and Gods. No where have I said that. I am thrilled you agree we live in a free society hence the reason it is unfair to not allow two men or two women to marry. Since it is a free society we can not let one persons beliefs stop another. Now of course I don't mean extremes like allowing bestiality, pedophilia, or murder.
I disagree that it forces a morality on you. You are still at liberty to hold your own beliefs and morals. The law does not stop that. We have to have laws. Society would not be able to function without laws or government.
Where exactly is the standard live and let live? People would also get hurt in a society that did not enforce live and let live.
I guess we have a different sense of what family is. How does it attack the foundation of society?
No I'm not overlooking that. As unheard of as it may be there is the possibility of two people being together without sex. There is the possibility of two gay men to not have anal sex. I'm not saying that that is commonly practiced, but it's not impossible. It does not physically hurt a lesbian. You say it spiritually hurts them, but no matter what anyone has done or been through they can always come to Christ. Also, heterosexual sex can hurt those who practice it as well. I don't get what the point in trying to make being gay worse than being straight. Anything you say about being gay can be said about being straight.
I totally agree with you.
That doesn't stop it from happening.
I don't think it has anything to do with any perversion. It deals with people being different and not being of the norm. For example, people attempted to use the Bible to promote slavery. Was that because those of African descent were engaged in a perversion? No, it was because they were thought of as lesser beings, which we know is totally absurd.
By calling someone a pervert your not really furthering your cause as a loving Christian. As I said before there are more than enough words in the English language for you to get your point across without name-calling. Even if you don't call it name-calling that is what it is. I will agree that I am abnormal for being gay as being gay is not the norm. I really take no offense to being called abnormal cause I honestly don't believe anyone is normal.
You know out of everything you have said the above makes me so mad. You should not make light of someone being made fun of or rude comments being made about someone. Do you not know I have actually thought of ending my own life for being gay? I haven't even been directly made fun of, but I couldn't take what I kept hearing from what seemed like everyone around me.
I know it is the truth and I know the truth hurts, but that does not mean it excuses the people who do go around and that's the first thing they tell someone.
And yet messages of hate are often intertwined with the "message of love" some give out.
People are capable of choosing what to believe in so after you've shared the Word of God, all you can do is pray. If they're dead set on not believing then only God Himself can change that person.
I believe he is talking of a practicing gay couple, but what you say is true.
A
AgeofKnowledge
Guest
god not God. Two different things. Their god is and says whatever they want him or her or it to be and say and is purely a construct/figment of their own imagination. Their theology is heretical, their lives immoral, and their state one of deception. They impart their false god and false view of the world to their children.
The God of the Bible, on the other hand, is real and unchanging; the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8; James 1:17, etc...); the beginning and the end (Revelations 22:13); in whom is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5).
You're making a big blunder in equating the average heterosexual relationship with the average homosexual relationship. They don't align well at all. There are spiritual, psychological, and even physical problems to living a life of gross immorality apart from the moral lawgiver (e.g. God of the Bible) and the statistics clearly reflect that.
The Bible instructs us not to be deceived by the lies of the devil who "disguises himself as an angel of light." -2 Corinthians 11:14 NASB. Scripture reveals true love does not lend itself to gross sexual immorality. If they loved each other with God's love, they would not want to engage in degrading sexual immoral acts with each other which affects the very imago dei in them causing personality changes and spiritual depravity, bondage, demonic oppression, deception and the danger of reprobation (Romans 1:26-27).
"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming." -Colossians 3:5-6.
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you." -1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
Etc...
The devil's desire is to transform American sexual socio-societal standards, which have their moral basis in God the moral lawgiver, into a satanic substitute through deception.
Matthew 12:30, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters."
I'd like to talk more but I've got things to do. Chow.
The God of the Bible, on the other hand, is real and unchanging; the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8; James 1:17, etc...); the beginning and the end (Revelations 22:13); in whom is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5).
You're making a big blunder in equating the average heterosexual relationship with the average homosexual relationship. They don't align well at all. There are spiritual, psychological, and even physical problems to living a life of gross immorality apart from the moral lawgiver (e.g. God of the Bible) and the statistics clearly reflect that.
The Bible instructs us not to be deceived by the lies of the devil who "disguises himself as an angel of light." -2 Corinthians 11:14 NASB. Scripture reveals true love does not lend itself to gross sexual immorality. If they loved each other with God's love, they would not want to engage in degrading sexual immoral acts with each other which affects the very imago dei in them causing personality changes and spiritual depravity, bondage, demonic oppression, deception and the danger of reprobation (Romans 1:26-27).
"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming." -Colossians 3:5-6.
"For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you." -1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
Etc...
The devil's desire is to transform American sexual socio-societal standards, which have their moral basis in God the moral lawgiver, into a satanic substitute through deception.
Matthew 12:30, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters."
I'd like to talk more but I've got things to do. Chow.
D
Daniel94
Guest
No matter what someone may believe I will respect their beliefs and address their God as a proper noun. There are many denominations in Christianity each of these denominations has formed God to what they think He is because they interpret things differently. So by using your logic, we can say the Christian God "is purely a construct/figment of their own imagination. Their theology is heretical, their lives immoral, and their state as one of deception." Now I don't personally believe that nor do I think you do, but my point is just because someone interprets or believes differently does not mean you have the right to go around saying their beliefs are wrong and immoral nor do they have that right. Now if you can have a civil conversation about their beliefs and yours then be my guest, but you can't have an I'm right, you're wrong attitude because then no one will want to hear you out.
No, I'm not making a big blunder. Heterosexual relationships can experience the same spiritual, psychological, and physical problems a homosexual relationship can because some heterosexual relationships are in the same gross sexual immorality. I think you're wrong in saying that "if they loved each other with God's love they would not want to engage in degrading sexual immoral acts with each other." A saved Christian can still be tempted to do something sinful. There can be that one fleeting moment where they think "Hey, I really want to do that." It would have been better to have said they would resist the temptation. You say they don't love with God's love and yet there is such a thing as a happy monogamous homosexual relationship. I would say Christian, but I'm not in the mood to pour any gas on the fire that's already burning. I don't think you, me, or anyone else are in any position to judge the type of love between two people.
What is loving with God's love? I want to say more about loving with God's love, but I'd like you to answer the question first, if you wouldn't mind.
I think the devil's goal is much larger than just the American sexual socio-societal standards. As I've said before in America it is unfair to use one's beliefs to restrict a group of people, who do not believe as you, from doing something. Now of course as I have also said this does not mean allowing extremes like murder, pedophilia, or bestiality. If two consenting adult males or females want to have a relationship or even get married then who are we to stand in the way? Don't tell me by allowing that it is going to ruin the sanctity of marriage. As Christians we are told not to divorce, that man can not separate what God has brought together and yet divorces happen on daily basis and some of those are Christians who have divorced.