God bless Germany .Brave German Christian woman, defends Christianity .

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The imam was invited to the church. I think as a guest he should have been treated better.

It is ironic Martin Luther considered Islam to be closer to Protestanism than Catholicism due to the rejection of idols.

In On War against the Turk, Luther is actually less critical of the Turks than he is of the Pope, whom he calls an anti-Christ, or the Jews, whom he describes as "the Devil incarnate".

Goffman, p.109

Martin Luther was calling Jews "Devil incarnate" and now Muslims are with the devil. Ignorance remains, just the target changes.
 
I love the way people jump to equate some multi-denominational label of religious faith that has loads of different beliefs under it, as 'red' and so its 'against blue', and we gotta fight it with all the blue we have ...

sigh.

'And ye shall know them by their fruits'.

Killer muslim = just a killer

killer christian = just a killer

annoying christian woman = just annoying person

evil jew = just an evil person

angry greek = just an angry person

crazy lutheran = just a crazy person



I don't take labels into consideration. I don't think God does either.

'BUT GOD, I'M A CHRISTIAN! I'VE BELIEVED IN YOU! IVE REBUKED ALL THOSE NASTY SATAN WORSHIPPERS!'

sigh

Each person does what they will and is what they are. By our fruits we're known. By the seat of all out motives we're judged. Not our professions. Not our titles and labels.

When someone usurps the peace, or destroys a gathering full of hospitality, then they're a destroyer of a gathering of hospitality, or a usurper of peace. I don't give a damn what they label themselves as, christian or not. It doesn't matter.

'By your fruits you shall know them'.

"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain" (James 1:26)
 
[video=youtube;BQ-woo76df0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ-woo76df0[/video]

Very awesome video and very inspirational. In these dark times it is uplifting to see strong Christians standing up for the Truth.

Thank you very much for sharing this. We all can learn strength through Jesus from this German Hero's example.
 
The imam was invited to the church. I think as a guest he should have been treated better.

It is ironic Martin Luther considered Islam to be closer to Protestanism than Catholicism due to the rejection of idols.

In On War against the Turk, Luther is actually less critical of the Turks than he is of the Pope, whom he calls an anti-Christ, or the Jews, whom he describes as "the Devil incarnate".

Goffman, p.109

Martin Luther was calling Jews "Devil incarnate" and now Muslims are with the devil. Ignorance remains, just the target changes.

Martin Luther also believed that the Muslims were the Kingdom of Antichrist
Martin Luther, Tischreden, Weimer ed., 1, No. 330

And rightfully so as all who follow the 23 year stand alone record of the 7th century illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering, child doing (per islams own writings) false prophet muhammad are required to believe God has no begotten Son.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
For a muslim to admit Christ is the only begotten Son of God is to commit shirk, islams unpardonable sin. It really is a shame to see you duped into following and believing the 7th century illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering, child doing (per islams own writings) false prophet muhammad. If you believe Jesus was a prophet and good teacher why do you ignore His teachings and follow what islams own writings say was a lying, thieving, murdering, child doing person? Don't islams own writings teach that Christ was the only one that ever lived capable of keeping the law in it's entirety? So why do you reject His teachings to follow a person islams own writings say was a liar, thief, muderer, and pedophile?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Drett, If you truly want to know God you must first quit denying that Christ is the only begotten Son of God! How can you truly know the Son if you keep denying He is the begotten Son of God. Your false prophet muhammad is leading you to perdition just as he been leading others to perdition for 1400 years by duping his followers (muhammad's not God's) to perdition!
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Do you really want to end up in the lake of fire with the false prophet (muhammad) and the beast (islam)?
 
I love the way people jump to equate some multi-denominational label of religious faith that has loads of different beliefs under it, as 'red' and so its 'against blue', and we gotta fight it with all the blue we have ...

sigh.

'And ye shall know them by their fruits'.

Killer muslim = just a killer

killer christian = just a killer

annoying christian woman = just annoying person

evil jew = just an evil person

angry greek = just an angry person

crazy lutheran = just a crazy person



I don't take labels into consideration. I don't think God does either.

'BUT GOD, I'M A CHRISTIAN! I'VE BELIEVED IN YOU! IVE REBUKED ALL THOSE NASTY SATAN WORSHIPPERS!'

sigh

Each person does what they will and is what they are. By our fruits we're known. By the seat of all out motives we're judged. Not our professions. Not our titles and labels.

When someone usurps the peace, or destroys a gathering full of hospitality, then they're a destroyer of a gathering of hospitality, or a usurper of peace. I don't give a damn what they label themselves as, christian or not. It doesn't matter.

'By your fruits you shall know them'.

There is only one God and one faith, faith in Christ Jesus. All others are not from God and all, all are works based lies.

The fruits of Islam is clear...and they are not christian fruits. Equating the two is wrong
 
There is only one God and one faith, faith in Christ Jesus. All others are not from God and all, all are works based lies.

The fruits of Islam is clear...and they are not christian fruits. Equating the two is wrong

Okay but that doesn't really address the point. If a christian kills someone is that different than a muslim killing someone? Is the christian somehow irresponsible and yet the muslim is responsible?

Or if two friends, one christian and one muslim, are talking peacefully and amicably, and a christian woman runs in the middle of them and starts shouting abuse at the muslim, is that okay since she's christian?

The same way, if a muslim woman runs between them and shouts abuse at the christian, thereby disturbing the peace, I suspect you would hold the muslim woman accountable for slander and abuse.

If you have moral standards you set for others to obey, should you not set them on yourself too?
 
I think this woman was very brave and bold in professing her faith, and I admire that. Knowing the history of Germany, I can understand why she is worried about her nation. However, I don't think the imam was the problem. It was an interfaith concert, which means both Muslims and Christians participated willingly.I would be more worried about Christians compromising the truth for the sake of political correctness, which really is fear of man. I think the part where she screamed Muslims murdered Christians was uncalled for. Not that it doesn't happen, but she could've just said that Islam was a lie, period. The doctrine is wrong. When doctrine is wrong, everything else just follows as a sympton of believing lies and falling into idolatry.
 
You won't understand this, unless you know who is behind it, and what their plans are. Multiculturalism is a tool of Satan himself, and is therefore evil. Because it is used against God's people.

I'm not sure if you're saying that mixing cultures is wrong, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Multiculturalism is not a problem. Compromising the truth is. We are not Israel in the OT. The gospel is announced to all nations, to all cultures. And the truth is, some cultures (not people) need to change or disappear, because they are sinful. Just think of the natives who practiced human sacrifices. I'm glad they changed their culture. Some cultures don't need to change much. But the problem is not a culture, the problem is wether a cultural custom is sinful or not. I actually see multiculturalism as a great tool for evangilizing. We can learn the good things from other cultures and use them as a means of reaching more people.

''I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel,that I may share with them in its blessings.'' (1Cor 9:22-23)
 
A christian is not supposed to murder.

And yet, to the naive eye, the bible instructs murder several times, as does the Koran. It depends on the reader, though, doesn't it?

You still didn't really address the question. Is a Christian who kills a person less responsible than a Muslim who kills a person? In otherwords, are christians to be held less accountable than muslims for crime?

I get the feeling that 'transgression' only seems to apply to muslims, for you.
 
Okay but that doesn't really address the point. If a christian kills someone is that different than a muslim killing someone?

Yes it is different and here is why. Christians are not supposed to use violence to force others to accept Christianity, therefore they should not use violence except in the case of defending others or themselves (and then only as a last resort). So one who claims Christianity yet malicously murders another is not doing as Christianity instructs and is most likely not even really a Christian. On the other hand the muslim is instructed by the quran and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] century, illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering, child doing (per islam’s own writings) false prophet muhammad (not God) they follow to use violence to force the world into submission to islam and to murder those who won’t. Can we automatically assume that just because one says they are a muslim or a Christian that they really are what they say they are? No because many people claim Christianity that are clueless about what a Christian really is. By the same token many nonbelievers (atheists etc… but not Christians as they are not supposed to deny Christ) who live in islamic controlled countries claim they are muslim and play muslim to keep from being murdered for the so called crime of apostasy.

Is the christian somehow irresponsible and yet the muslim is responsible?

Anyone who takes a life will be held accountable come judgment day. I do believe that one who kills in self defense and one who malicously murders in order to force their religion on others will be judged differently.

Or if two friends, one christian and one muslim, are talking peacefully and amicably, and a christian woman runs in the middle of them and starts shouting abuse at the muslim, is that okay since she's christian?

The same way, if a muslim woman runs between them and shouts abuse at the christian, thereby disturbing the peace, I suspect you would hold the muslim woman accountable for slander and abuse.

That is a little different then what this woman did. In this case the church elders that brought the imam into the church were in error. So it was right that someone stood up and stated the truth. Stating the truth about a false religion that was started started by a person islam’s own writings say was a liar, thief, murderer and a pedophile is not abuse.

If you have moral standards you set for others to obey, should you not set them on yourself too?

Sure they should, those who don’t are hypocrites. You know like the followers of muhammad (not God) who demand the world not even speak against islam while at the same time blaspheming the true God and using violence to force the world into following a 7[SUP]th[/SUP] century, illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering, child doing(per islam's own writings) false prophet called muhammad that requires it’s followers to be antichrists.

Jhana I have a few questions for you. Why would anyone in their right mind choose to follow a false religion that is based on the stand alone 23 year record of a person islam’s own writings say was a liar, thief, murderer and child doing person (muhammad)? Don’t you think people would be better served coming to know Christ and His Father through the 1600 year record of numerous prophets and Christ as recorded in the bible?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How can you as a muslim who denies God has a Son come to know the Father if you deny that God has a begotten Son?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
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And yet, to the naive eye, the bible instructs murder several times, as does the Koran. It depends on the reader, though, doesn't it?

You still didn't really address the question. Is a Christian who kills a person less responsible than a Muslim who kills a person? In otherwords, are christians to be held less accountable than muslims for crime?

I get the feeling that 'transgression' only seems to apply to muslims, for you.

One of the ten commandments....do not murder. Its a sin to murder and in no scripture is there support for murder in any form nor fashion.

Killing yes. Murder no.

As far as an interfaith gathering? Its not biblical.

To give an islam prayer in a christian church? That's a compromise King Asa would be proud of.

You wanna hold hands and sing kumbya? Go ahead but not in a house of worship of the one true God, Jesus Christ my Lord and savior.

period
 
I don't wish to comment to much here (it feels like another thread I was on that was similar ;) let the reader (who have been there lol) understand ;) , but I think I agree that this woman was acting motivated by zeal yes, but expressed it in the wrong and an unloving manner (no Muslim seeing it would then listen to anything else she or a Christian had to say then about Him seeing this unloving disrespect for them), I understand why she did it, and I think I have compassion for it, but in my opinion it was the wrong way to relate to the situation (not least it not only showed dishonour, disrespect and a lack of compassion to the Muslims but is showed a lack of love for her Christian brothers and sisters present).

Whether it was the right way to go to have the Iman give the call to prayer in the cathedral itself is a matter of debate (in some respects I think it might be the wrong way as it could and did offend clearly some Christians) perhaps an address or speech might have been better. However the reaction of the lady is equally important, we do not see Paul disrespect the Athenians for example, rather he engages them in Acts, this doesn't mean that we should say Islam and Christianity are ultimately the same, while we are both monotheistic theists with much overlap to work on - and I'm sorry if I do offend some of my brothers and sisters here, I really don't wish to - but I think we can and should in those areas, because the gospel is the proclamation Jesus is Lord and seeing that Lordship brought to bear in self-sacrificial love and is more then (though it fully includes as part of it) the response of people in believing faith to that saving Lordship, but also bring that Kingdom to bear now in this world anticipating the future age when it comes it it's fullness.

Before anyone jumps on me as a heretic or compromiser this doesn't mean that we say we agree with the Muslims on everything, in fact it means honestly saying to each other we have fundamental disagreements and acknowledging that the gospel of Jesus and the revelation of Mohammed are not the ultimately reconcilable and have out workings of justice, love and wider theological frameworks that are very different in some places. But we can like Paul (and like Jesus also hinted with the exorcist casting out demons in His name in such passages as Luke 9:49-50) dialogue with those of other world-views, and have conferences together and shocking as it may seem, work with them in so many areas, and affirming areas of agreement like Paul, but like him also showing clearly were we see such things point, and being willing to have open and honest dialogue with various people (in this case Muslims) say and acknowledging our areas of fundamental disagreement, and not ignoring it but continuing to dialogue in love and faith, always seeking to show Jesus, and taking the befit of the deeper understanding to keep reaching, living with, and working with our Islamic neighbours, while always maintaining (as they would believe of Allah through Mohammed) the Truth of Jesus and His Lordship as the true and full revelation of God, and live it before them so it might let them see (and let us understand those individual and actual people and communities more).

So no, I don't see inter-faith gatherings as necessarily wrong at all, if done with a loving, open and honest spirit of dialogue, with both willing to sit and reason together from our different perspectives, all hoping to expand the saving and loving Lordship of King Jesus, the ruling Son of God.

Anyway that's my take, God bless you all and bring wisdom to all (including me, because I doubt I've got the full and completely correct view either here :) ).
 
One of the ten commandments....do not murder. Its a sin to murder and in no scripture is there support for murder in any form nor fashion.

Killing yes. Murder no.

As far as an interfaith gathering? Its not biblical.

To give an islam prayer in a christian church? That's a compromise King Asa would be proud of.

You wanna hold hands and sing kumbya? Go ahead but not in a house of worship of the one true God, Jesus Christ my Lord and savior.

period

Church ...... Who requires a brick building for a congregation? Does God only exist in churches?

Your divisive view doesn't explain why Thomas went to India and sat with Hindus and Buddhists, or why Jesus sat in congregation with 'unbelievers' and gentiles (whom I would assume you would equate Muslims with).

The dialogue between such people isn't a dialogue of agreement, it's a dialogue of friendship and understanding. The Islam prayer is a prayer of well wishes for others just as the christian prayers would be. I don't see where well-wishes are condemned in the bible, not even for an 'enemy'. And an enemy is not even an enemy when they are wishing you well.

You still didn't directly answer the question. regardless of whether the bible says 'kill' or 'not kill', or the koran says similarly, you still haven't directly answered, and you seem to be unable to see that a christian may commit a sin regardless of what their book instructs, it only takes one moment of thoughtlessness. so for the third time.

Does God hold a christian killer less accountable than a muslim one? That is to say, are these acts of willful violence, born out of hatred, somehow different depending on labels?
 
Wow...so people are trying to increase understanding between two cultures known for not getting along(christians and muslims) but no lets ruin it. Because peace between groups is clearly a negative? This is such a joke, that woman should be ashamed.

Of course they should get along! How do you handle Muslim no-go areas where you come from? How would you advise the German people handle it?

I wonder why you haven't responded yet? :confused:

As someone with a degree in Political Science(INternational Law, Comparative INternational Politics, International Political Organizations, International Politics) and a minor in International Global Studies, ...
 
Well where Im from we dont have anything even close to muslim no-go areas. I mean I guess its kinda like I know I shouldnt walk down certain streets or in certain neighborhoods after dark?
 
Well where Im from we dont have anything even close to muslim no-go areas.
Well, you didn't have your mind broken in pieces by growing up under totalitarianism such as was found in the DDR, but that didn't stop you from condemning someone who was.
... that woman should be ashamed.


I mean I guess its kinda like I know I shouldnt walk down certain streets or in certain neighborhoods after dark?
What if the reason you can't do that is 100% because of foreign workers living in that neighborhood? They have literally used menace and sometimes violence to create a zone where even the local police don't want to go.

As you can see from the video in post #14, this is a political issue and I was hoping you could offer an educated voice of reason against the antisemitic solutions being propagated by the OP.
 
Church ...... Who requires a brick building for a congregation? Does God only exist in churches?

Your divisive view doesn't explain why Thomas went to India and sat with Hindus and Buddhists, or why Jesus sat in congregation with 'unbelievers' and gentiles (whom I would assume you would equate Muslims with).

The dialogue between such people isn't a dialogue of agreement, it's a dialogue of friendship and understanding. The Islam prayer is a prayer of well wishes for others just as the christian prayers would be. I don't see where well-wishes are condemned in the bible, not even for an 'enemy'. And an enemy is not even an enemy when they are wishing you well.

You still didn't directly answer the question. regardless of whether the bible says 'kill' or 'not kill', or the koran says similarly, you still haven't directly answered, and you seem to be unable to see that a christian may commit a sin regardless of what their book instructs, it only takes one moment of thoughtlessness. so for the third time.

Does God hold a christian killer less accountable than a muslim one? That is to say, are these acts of willful violence, born out of hatred, somehow different depending on labels?

Jesus fashioned a whip and chased out crooks from His father's temple.

He would have done the same to this false teacher IN HIS HOUSE OF WORSHIP.

King Asa was a king who was deemed very bad by God because he made allegiances with those people outside his faith.

This wasn't out in the street or at someone's home. This was in a christian church where a false god was prayed to.

Very very bad.

Al all inclusive religion is no religion at all

allah is a false god, a moon god muhammid, a murdering pedophile, worshiped.
 
The OP is blathering about multiculturalism beinga sin while ignoring the fact we live in a world where multiculturalism is necessary for most things to even work properly. Why should I bother entertaining such a closeminded and self harming viewpoint? There is a huge difference between multiculturalism(which is a good and noble thing) and an imagined chrislam event(which this wasnt). All the event consisted of was two cultures holding a community event together. Both were invited to include some of their own culture. Its not like anyone who was uncomfortable was forced to participate in it. The fact that this woman didnt have enough respect to quietly wait for one groups thing to be done, or better yet just not go if she couldn't handle it is not praise-worthy. If anythings its disrespectful and possibly xenophobic.

As far as these Muslim no-go area's I havent looked into them much, mostly due to being out of school and having a life and a job, that doesnt give me the time to research every corner of the globe and the individual issues in various countries.
 
Yes it is different and here is why. Christians are not supposed to use violence to force others to accept Christianity, therefore they should not use violence except in the case of defending others or themselves (and then only as a last resort). So one who claims Christianity yet malicously murders another is not doing as Christianity instructs and is most likely not even really a Christian. On the other hand the muslim is instructed by the quran and the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] century, illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering, child doing (per islam’s own writings) false prophet muhammad (not God) they follow to use violence to force the world into submission to islam and to murder those who won’t. Can we automatically assume that just because one says they are a muslim or a Christian that they really are what they say they are? No because many people claim Christianity that are clueless about what a Christian really is. By the same token many nonbelievers (atheists etc… but not Christians as they are not supposed to deny Christ) who live in islamic controlled countries claim they are muslim and play muslim to keep from being murdered for the so called crime of apostasy.



Anyone who takes a life will be held accountable come judgment day. I do believe that one who kills in self defense and one who malicously murders in order to force their religion on others will be judged differently.



That is a little different then what this woman did. In this case the church elders that brought the imam into the church were in error. So it was right that someone stood up and stated the truth. Stating the truth about a false religion that was started started by a person islam’s own writings say was a liar, thief, murderer and a pedophile is not abuse.



Sure they should, those who don’t are hypocrites. You know like the followers of muhammad (not God) who demand the world not even speak against islam while at the same time blaspheming the true God and using violence to force the world into following a 7[SUP]th[/SUP] century, illiterate, lying, thieving, murdering, child doing(per islam's own writings) false prophet called muhammad that requires it’s followers to be antichrists.

Jhana I have a few questions for you. Why would anyone in their right mind choose to follow a false religion that is based on the stand alone 23 year record of a person islam’s own writings say was a liar, thief, murderer and child doing person (muhammad)? Don’t you think people would be better served coming to know Christ and His Father through the 1600 year record of numerous prophets and Christ as recorded in the bible?
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How can you as a muslim who denies God has a Son come to know the Father if you deny that God has a begotten Son?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

You talk like all muslims deny that Jesus was the messiah of the Jews. You talk like every muslim who has committed murder has done so from religious instruction, and every christian who has committed murder has done so out of self defense.

You speak like every 'muslim' (simply on the premise that they have that religious title) is exactly the same.

I have muslim friends who think that the current jihadist movement (jihad denotes 'religious struggle') is an absolutely ridiculous misinterpretation of the koran. Many of them in fact believe that the 'jihad' has nothing to do with conversion, rather that it is an 'inner struggle'. The saying 'fight with others, there are no winners, fight with yourself, you may truly find the truth', comes to mind.

You speak like every muslim on Earth denies Jesus words. They do not.

Muslims I know will quote the koran, and often the bible, just for illustration, both of which verify the virginal conception, which verify that Jesus is the messiah of the Jewish scripts, which verify that God spoke into Mary and Jesus simply 'was', inside Mary.

What you don't understand is that 'son', is a term that many people use ignorantly of one another's interpretations of it. Jesus himself, (in the bible) observes that many times, people have been called 'sons of God', or 'gods', in Jewish tradition, and Jesus used this to his advantage when he taught. They were called so since they are creations of God, made in God's image. Many of the prophets were titled as such things. Children of God, 'sons of God', and 'gods'.

The muslim would also agree that Jesus was in fact conceived without sex, that God spoke him into existence inside his mother's womb (the same way he spoke Adam into existence from the dust).

Mohammed tells the muslim followers 'it does not become God to father a son'. This is a statement of human conception. We think of fathering as having had sex with a woman and fathered a child by conventional biological means. But Jesus wasn't that.

This isn't a denial that Jesus is 'son of God' in the way that many of the Jewish prophets were sons of God, nor that Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews, nor that Jesus was conceived without sex, nor that Jesus was morally infallible and was never rightly rebuked for any 'sin'. The muslim won''t deny any of these things.

They simply deny that Jesus was a 'son' in the sense that many people view 'sons'. They simply don't see Jesus as a 'biological' son. He is a 'child of God' to them, in the way that Adam was a son of God, or that humans are children of God. Jesus is the infallible brother, the perfect example of morality, the most loved creation of God to them, in a sense, since he was the one most in line with God's will, and the only child of God who was fully begotten.

The bible says;

As it is written in the second Psalm: "'You are my son; today I have become your father.'

This passage is talking about Jesus. 'To me he shall be a son, and to him I shall be a father'.

The Koran uses psalms. So it is preposterous to say that a muslim doesn't see this verse above about Jesus. They dimply don't see it in the light that christians do. A man who has not actually biologically 'fathered' a child, can still be a 'father' to him. God did not biologically 'father' Jesus, since God and Mary did not have sex. The idea is kind of ridiculous. God spoke, and Jesus was. He 'created' Jesus, like he 'created' Adam. Adam is a son of God, a child of God. And in this sense, the muslim will understand Jesus as such. They just don't see him as 'biological son', or 'part of trinity'.

The Koran says 'the Jews and christians say 'we are the chosen children of Allah, we are his beloved ones'. Say 'why then does he still chastise you for your sins?' Nay, you are all human beings, of all those He has created. He forgives who he forgives and punishes likewise. To Him belong the heavens and the earth and all between them, and to him all will return'.

This is simply a statement of human equality. Everyone, regardless of what they 'are', sins and sees the consequences of sin. If a christian cheats on his wife, he reaps what he sows. If a muslim cheats on her husband, she reaps what she sows.

They aren't as ignorant as you seem to profess, not all of them at least. They only view the concept of 'children of God' differently.

Anyway, it's for you to take or leave. Whether you agree with it or not isn't why I'm saying it. I don't necessarily agree with it either. I don't need to believe it, you don't need to believe it, but I can understand it. At least perhaps you might understand it more too.
 
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