GOD caused the famine in Egypt and how Joseph ruled.

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JohnB

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Jul 31, 2022
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#1
And He called for a famine upon the land;
He broke the whole staff of bread.
He sent a man before them,
Joseph, who was sold as a slave.
They forced his feet into shackles,
He was put in irons;
Until the time that his word came to pass,
The word of the LORD refined him.
The king sent and released him,
The ruler of peoples and set him free.
He made him lord of his house,
And ruler over all his possessions,
To imprison his high officials at will,
That he might teach his elders wisdom.

Psalm 105:19

Imagine if we had a Joseph ruling in America. How many politicians would still be standing? Interesting GOD caused the famine.
 

seekingthemindofChrist

Casting down imaginations
Jul 10, 2023
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#2
Interesting GOD caused the famine.
It was by interpreting Pharaoh's dream in relation to the coming famine that Joseph was promoted to a place of leadership in fulfillment of the dream which God had previously given him.
 

JohnB

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#4
It was by interpreting Pharaoh's dream in relation to the coming famine that Joseph was promoted to a place of leadership in fulfillment of the dream which God had previously given him.
Joseph was a very tough ruler. I can only imagine what he must have heard about the Egyptian court while in prison. He heard how corrupt they were and who they were. It may explain why he was so hard on the Egyptian people. He did not give them grain, he sold it to them for all they had and their lives. He made them slaves.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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#5
Underlying all of history are the purposes and actions of God.
History is under Divine control. History is following a Divine plan. History is following a Divine timetable. History is His story...Jesus.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#6
Underlying all of history are the purposes and actions of God.
History is under Divine control. History is following a Divine plan. History is following a Divine timetable. History is His story...Jesus.
I always look forward to your posts. However, I must elaborate on your post in that , YES, our Father knows exactly what will happen, and what has happened to the world and its story in advance, but it is because He knows what His creatures will do when they do not consult Him
We have been told the signs of the end days, and when they are extant in earnest all who believe Jesus Yeshua will understand, see and know this great difference, for God, Himself,will take charge of those final days, and all mankind will know it is divine action in their midst.
So we have arrived to the fulfillment of the prophecy, "the earth is polluted under its inhabitants for the fruit of their doing." How long this will be indulged, dI do not know, but, when the indulgence has reached its climax, we must all be prepared. God bless all in Jesus Yeshua, amen.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#7
Imagine if we had a Joseph ruling in America.
We do; and I'm sure he would love to take all your money and make everyone slaves. The difference is, our inflation is man-made.

It may explain why he was so hard on the Egyptian people. He did not give them grain, he sold it to them for all they had and their lives. He made them slaves.
To be fair to biblical Joseph; it appears that they offered themselves as slaves.

“We cannot hide from our lord that our money is gone and all our livestock belongs to you. There is nothing left for our lord except our bodies and our land. Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Purchase us and our land in exchange for food. Then we, along with our land, will be slaves to Pharaoh. Give us seed that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”
 

JohnB

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#8
We do; and I'm sure he would love to take all your money and make everyone slaves. The difference is, our inflation is man-made.


To be fair to biblical Joseph; it appears that they offered themselves as slaves.

“We cannot hide from our lord that our money is gone and all our livestock belongs to you. There is nothing left for our lord except our bodies and our land. Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Purchase us and our land in exchange for food. Then we, along with our land, will be slaves to Pharaoh. Give us seed that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”
He gave them a choice......become a slave or starve.
 

JohnB

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#9
We do; and I'm sure he would love to take all your money and make everyone slaves. The difference is, our inflation is man-made.


To be fair to biblical Joseph; it appears that they offered themselves as slaves.

“We cannot hide from our lord that our money is gone and all our livestock belongs to you. There is nothing left for our lord except our bodies and our land. Why should we perish before your eyes—we and our land as well? Purchase us and our land in exchange for food. Then we, along with our land, will be slaves to Pharaoh. Give us seed that we may live and not die, and that the land may not become desolate.”
when GOD brings judgement on a country, it affects everyone....believers and unbelievers. Everyone suffers.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#10
He did not give them grain, he sold it to them for all they had and their lives. He made them slaves.
I am not sure this was commendable. Given the fact that the later Pharaoh made the Israelites practically slaves.
 

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#11
He gave them a choice......become a slave or starve.
Really? Because I don't see that in the scripture at all. It looks to me like willingly becoming slaves was their own solution to the famine.

when GOD brings judgement on a country, it affects everyone....believers and unbelievers. Everyone suffers.
This was a global famine, though: The Egyptians were better off than other civilizations at the time.

When the seven years of abundance in the land of Egypt came to an end, the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had said. And although there was famine in every country, there was food throughout the land of Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.2-kiloyear_event
 

JohnB

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#12
I am not sure this was commendable. Given the fact that the later Pharaoh made the Israelites practically slaves.
That Pharaoh did not know Joseph. There is a hint he wasn't even Egyptian..
 

JohnB

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#13
Really? Because I don't see that in the scripture at all. It looks to me like willingly becoming slaves was their own solution to the famine.


This was a global famine, though: The Egyptians were better off than other civilizations at the time.

When the seven years of abundance in the land of Egypt came to an end, the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had said. And although there was famine in every country, there was food throughout the land of Egypt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4.2-kiloyear_event
Genesis 47:13–26 describes how Joseph's plan for the famine made Egypt's king even more powerful and wealthy. In essence, Joseph sells grain taxed from the people back to them. When the people run out of money to pay for food from the storehouses, Joseph trades for their livestock, land, and even their freedom.
 

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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#14
Joseph was a very tough ruler. I can only imagine what he must have heard about the Egyptian court while in prison. He heard how corrupt they were and who they were. It may explain why he was so hard on the Egyptian people. He did not give them grain, he sold it to them for all they had and their lives. He made them slaves.
Well , I understand that this was the only way to save the life of the people. It was hard. But it saved their life.
 

JohnB

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#15
Well , I understand that this was the only way to save the life of the people. It was hard. But it saved their life.
It also set things up for the Pharaoh that did not know Joseph.
 

SomeDisciple

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#16
Genesis 47:13–26 describes how Joseph's plan for the famine made Egypt's king even more powerful and wealthy. In essence, Joseph sells grain taxed from the people back to them. When the people run out of money to pay for food from the storehouses, Joseph trades for their livestock, land, and even their freedom.
Right, Joseph did ask to trade for their livestock; but Joseph didn't ask for their land or freedom- they offered that themselves.

It wouldn't shock me if the people wanted centralized control of agriculture at the time. The church also pooled their resources to survive the first century famine prophesied by Agabus.
 

montana123

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Oct 9, 2021
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#17
Joseph was second in command in Egypt only accountable to the Pharaoh.

But I would like to address the misconception people have of Moses being the prince of Egypt, and believing he was a great man in Egypt, and heir to the throne for it is not true.

Moses was not the man that some people make him out to be especially Hollywood.

The Egyptians did not eat with the Hebrews for that was an abomination to them, and they believed they were superior to them, and they could never be on their level.

Moses knew he was a Hebrew his whole life, and the Pharaoh made sure he knew that and would never put Moses as equal to the Egyptians.

Moses had it better than the other Hebrews for the Pharaoh's daughter raised him but the Egyptians still looked at Moses as being beneath them.

Moses knew he was a Hebrew for the Bible says he went out, and looked upon his brethren.

Moses had killed an Egyptian that was harming a Hebrew, and hid his body.

When Moses saw 2 Hebrews fighting with each other he said why do you fight with each other seeing you are brothers.

The Hebrews said who made you a ruler, and judge over us, and will you kill us as you did the Egyptian.

If Moses had been a great man in Egypt equal to the Egyptians, and considered a prince in Egypt the Hebrews would of never spoke to him that way for he would of been a ruler, and judge over them, and they would not have cared if he defended a Hebrew from an Egyptian.

But they knew Moses was not a great man in Egypt but was a lowly Hebrew like them, and they did not like Moses butting in to their business for they did not see him as important in the land of Egypt.

Moses was a lowly Hebrew that the Pharaoh, and the Egyptians would never put as their equal, but he had better than the other Hebrews which they probably despised Moses for that.

But Hollywood likes to portray Moses as some great person in Egypt, and the prince of Egypt, but it is not true.

Moses was a lowly Hebrew, and that is how the Pharaoh, the Egyptians, and even the Hebrews, saw him.

The reason Joseph was second in command was only because of knowing how to save Egypt from the famine, and charged with that.

But when a Pharaoh that knew not Joseph came to power then it was all over, and the Egyptians were put in to bondage as slaves because the Hebrews were a great amount of people, and he did not want the Hebrews to align themselves with the enemies of Egypt, and help them overthrow the Egyptians.
 

JohnB

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#18
Right, Joseph did ask to trade for their livestock; but Joseph didn't ask for their land or freedom- they offered that themselves.

It wouldn't shock me if the people wanted centralized control of agriculture at the time. The church also pooled their resources to survive the first century famine prophesied by Agabus.
It was becoming slaves or starve. Even they admitted to that.
 
Oct 22, 2023
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#19
the Egyptians historically do not even have a record of anyone called Hebrews or Jews existing anywhere at any time anywhere on the planet.

The Canaanite, Persian, Arabian / Muslim world of all of { all } previous history and even today, does not even recognize Israel on the map.

The Egyptians tell You why -

The Egyptians tell You clearly - "We aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: - The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. " – Nasser, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... " – Nasser, May 28, 1967

Cairo Radio Statements: May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

if the Canaanite, Persian and Arabians were successful at the destruction of America and Israel’s entire existence and if they were successful at Israel's death and annihilation." - in 2000 years from now, there would be very limited History of America and of Israel.

The Muslims would destroy every single book, movie, artifact and every single last library.

looking through the historical eyes and the perception of a regional historical mindset that even today is determined to completely destroy the existence of Israel. To not only destroy the Hebrews – but to again completely wipe out all historical data and records that pertain to the facts concerning the existence and the Exodus of The Jews in Egypt and also the ignoring of their entire history following thereafter - in the land of Canaan.

The Bible says that Isaac lived to be almost 200 years old.

And if about 600,000 Hebrews were produced from 70 original Hebrews who lived a lifespan of - living at around 200 years of age, who were very, very polygamous and very, very incestuous in nature and in total culture, who tightly knit, tightly, closely related as a huge family – who had been enslaved, beaten, raped, tortured and forced by the Egyptians - to even kill their own babies. –

It is not hard to image that 600,000 polygamous, incestuous closely related tribal families who were facing cruelty and horrible treatment and slaughter of their people, could not easily organize, assemble and communicate under a single leader and appoint themselves family and tribal leaders under Moses – and just make a basic decision to take everything they own and pack up and move out of the city ..

If people were living to be around 200 years old as the Bible clearly describes, when this family first entered into Egypt - under Isaac- With polygamous and Incestuous marriage being the preferred / normal lifestyle of marriage both at the entering in of Egypt and also at exiting Egypt -it is very easy to understand how that
The numbers totally easily add up , - Averaging around 10 males / sons per father
Generation .1 70 x 10 = 700
Generation .2 700 x 10 = 7000
Generation .3 7000 x 10 = 70,000
Generation .4 70,000 x 10 = 700,000 people.
Generation .5 700,000,0 people. At least.

If these men were polygamous and incestuous, many men could have had anywhere from 10 to 50 to 100 sons each.

Jdg 8:30 And Gideon had 70 sons, for he had many wives. Taking what the Bible says – it is very easy and very simple to believe. In Fact, it is too easy and too simple to not be possible.

1Ch 8:40 And the sons of Ulam were --, a hundred and fifty.

When you take into account the number of people the 70 people produced in 144 years into account with the fact that they also were taking in also NON-HEBREW local slaves into their community - adding to the family {a massive growth of multiplication of adding outsiders

And Naasson was born in Egypt Who was at least 20 years old during the census in the Sinai, during the Exodus. _

And Remember Aminadab - also who was also born in Egypt. Aminadab - was The Father in law of Aaron in Egypt Num 1:7

, { Naasson was the one Exiting Egypt } - Naasson Aminadab, Aram, Esrom, Phares, Juda and Jacob - all these seven GENERATIONS / men were living in Egypt as permanent residents - Or born as slaves.

The Hebrews could have had many, many more children, in this time-span - had they been free to freely multiply.

If 70 people in total entered into Egypt - and of these 70 people total - half of them were males.
This would begin the population with 35 males.
Generation 1 - 35 males who had - 12 males each.
Generation 2 = 420 males
Generation 3 = 5,040 males
Generation 4 = 60,480 males
Generation 5 = 72,5760 males
Generation 6 = 8,709,120 males
Generation 7 = 104,509,440 males.

This is over one hundred million of just males produced in 144 years from seven generations total with having themselves 12 males each

Jacob lived to be 147 years old and He was a weak, sick old man when He entered into Egypt at the age of 130. The first and second generations did not exit from Egypt- but some of the elders from the third generation could have and most of the fourth and probably all of the fifth, sixth and seventh generations did.

Exo 1:7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty, and the land was filled with them.

Exo 1:12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were abhorred because of the children of Israel. 13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with cruelty: ----------------------- "' As they also aborted the Hebrew children.

These men were living between 100 - 150 years old. As the Egyptians also forced them to abort their own children and limited their growth. The Egyptians wanted to use them as a slave society only. However, letting them go free was not an option. Therefore the more the Hebrews were afflicted and persecuted - the larger they became in growth.
 

JohnDB

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Jan 16, 2021
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#20
God is always good.
God is so busy being good He cannot be bad.

The Earth is unforgiving and will cause any number of calamities to mankind because it has never forgiven man for defying God.
The Earth wants to destroy man but God's hand of Grace prevents this from happening.

God lifts his hand of protection and man will be destroyed.