God created evil

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Angela53510 said:
Not to belabor the point, but you have not offered one shred of factual evidence for the KJV being a right or good translation and nothing substantive regarding the manuscript discussion. Or translational issues, but casually saying you have studied the original languages.

How did you study them? Using Strong's? That simply doesn't give you a clue about grammar and translational issues, to say nothing of syntax and context.
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No offense, but that's pretty funny coming from you. Where is any of your support for your fanciful stories? You know, things like this:

Angela53510 said:
First the KJV is based mostly on Erasmus' translation which was not fully complete, because of pressures from the Vatican to publish it fast. (He used Jeromes' incurate Latin version to fill in the gaps) When Erasmus translated the Bible for the RCC from the Greek and Hebrew, there were several problems. One, was that his research indicated tht the Johannine comma was NOT in the originals or the earliest manuscripts. The Vatican stopped him from dropping these verses, as they felt they needed it to prove that Jesus was God and the Trinity.
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Before the KJV came into being, Erasmus completed 5 EDITIONS of his translation and the Johannine Comma wasn't even included in the first 2 editions, so what are you talking about? IOW, how did the RCC allegedly "stop him from dropping these verses"? It's a fanciful fairy tale that you're telling, but I challenge you to support it with facts. You've spun some other yarns as well, but that's your problem and not mine. I'd recommend that you research your own claims and that you stop making wild accusations about me and my own research. You're so far removed from reality in your wild guesses about me and my research that you really ought to stop and pray before making any others.
 
Josefnospam said:
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"
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God is a good God and for God to create evil,to throw it out there of His own accord,does not make sense,for if it came from God personally,then why is the devil blamed for the evil in the world.

Before God created anything,did not create the angels,there was no evil at all,but only God that existed,in which God said He can not be tempted with evil,neither does He tempt any person.

If God cannot be tempted with evil,surely He did not throw out evil on His own accord.

Lucifer when he rebelled caused evilness to come about.That is how evil started with the rebellion of Lucifer and the angels that followed him.Evil was not thrown out there coming from God personally.

So what does it mean when God said I create evil.I believe it means indirectly,which means God did not throw evil out there on His own accord,but since Lucifer and the angels that followed him rebelled against God,evil came about because God created Lucifer and the angels.

Evil came about because of the angels that rebelled against God,which would of not happened if God did not create the angels,so therefore it came from God because He created the angels that rebelled,but did not come from Him directly.

There would be no evil if God did not create the angels that rebelled,so it came from God because He created the angels that rebelled,but not from God directly.

The truth is that everything that has ever happened since the creation of angels,and then other things,the world,and people,and heavenly ordinances,and every action,every word spoken,everything that has ever happened,all came from God because He created all things,but that does not mean He approves of it,or that it came from Him directly,that action,but it happened because God created all things.

I do not believe that God threw out evil on His own accord,but because He created Lucifer and the angels that rebelled,it came from Him but not directly.There would be no evil if God did not create Lucifer and the angels that followed Him,so it would be coming from God but not directly.

Some people might think that God created Lucifer to rebel,and if that is the case then it would be coming from God,because Lucifer would have no choice but to rebel,but then why is Lucifer blamed for his rebellion.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee(Ezekiel 28:15).

The Bible says that Lucifer was created perfect in his ways,until iniquity was found in him,so Lucifer was created to obey,and serve God,but it was later that iniquity was found in him,and that is because God gave the angels a choice.

This is what it seems like to me because it does not seem like evil would come from God directly,but happened because God created the angels that rebelled.
 
Btw, seeing how Jesus said that we'll know a tree by its fruit, have any of you ever paused to consider the fruit of different Bible translations and their underlying texts? What, for example, was the fruit of earlier Bible translations which were based upon the "Textus Receptus" or the "Received Text"? Well, the fruit was basically this:

THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION.

Yes, people like Wyckliffe who had his bones exhumed and burnt by the Papacy, Erasmus, Luther, Tyndale who was publicly strangled and then burned at the stake at the orders of the Papacy, Coverdale, etc., etc. were all DESPISED BY THE PAPACY for their translations which were based upon one group of manuscripts.

What is the fruit of the newer translations which are based upon manuscripts which were pulled out of the trash can at a Roman Catholic monastery (Codex Sinaiticus) and manuscripts in the possession of the Vatican (Codex Vaticanus)?

THE GREAT APOSTASY.

Coincidence?

Not on your life.
 
Tintin said:
I'm not sure why so many people hold the KJV to so high standards. I find that many don't understand what they're reading and that can cause a lot of strange beliefs and sometimes dangerous ones. Wouldn't it just be easier to read a Bible that you can understand?

And Magenta is correct, the word 'calamity' is appropriate for that verse, not 'evil'.
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I guess I actually enjoy KJV. It seems like maybe it is an acquired taste, like green tea. I always pray for Holy Spirit's help in reading any translation. For me, many are much more confusing than KJV.

After praying, using context clues, and harmonizing passages with the rest of the Word, I usually get along pretty well.

Common sense helps too. Most people who have walked with the Lord for a pace know that He is good. VERY good.

Magenta summed it up very well in post#10. To infer that God did anything bad is not a wise thing to do.
 
Josefnospam said:
Psalm 115:3 "Our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he pleases"

People sometimes ask why bad things happen. They happen because it is the will of God. ALL things are in his hands. Thank you Lord for your mercy and your Grace. We are in the hands of almighty God who will never fail. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so.

Psalm 107:2 "Let the redeemed of the Lord say so whom he has redeemed from the hand of the enemy"
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Amen.

"Bad" is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to events that God allows. "Bad" is not a synonym for sin.....

Rom 8:28 (KJV)
28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
 
There are degrees of interpretations of words all depending on the context. The word god means so may things. The word god could mean 'a maker of evil.'
 
People say, 'Oh, but there is a capital G!' That makes evil a little more pronounced. See, JHVH created all good in the Garden of Eden. In 2 stages, we (pre-man) were cast out. The 1st stage, we (pre-man) were still in the presence of JHVH. The 2nd stage, we (learning to be manly) were cast away from the presence into total uncivility. JHVH just let nature take care of us since the creation of mortals wanted to have visibility. There is something about the statement in the bible about Woman being the first deceived. How, you ask?

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The visibility did it. The seeing causing a desire.

But, JHVH caused the tree to grow, why? There had to a purpose because because JHVH does not tempt. What was that purpose? What did JHVH name the tree? 'The tree of knowledge of good and evil.'

There was created inside the Garden something that the woman could understand. When this something that was on the tree communicated with the woman, the woman communicated back an extra command that JHVH did not relay to the created man. The command was 'neither shall ye touch it.' The word 'touch,' in that context could mean desire.

A person has to study very much to gain the knowledge of why fruits and vegetables and herbs are so beneficial to the person who consumes them. The communication from the tree came that 'Dieing you will not die.' Or it is written 'You will not surely die.' In other words, 'You will not fully die you will be like the gods knowing good and evil.'

If that was an animal communicating with the woman, the god to that animal was another animal. The God to the serpent was the grand serpent. That is exactly what has happened.
 
I found a great article on that a few months ago...

https://carm.org/does-god-create-evil

The 2 things that this article mentions is the word evil, aka "rah" has many definitions just like other Hebrew words. Anyways, when you look at the verse in context.. you can see how the verse talks about things that are opposites. Light and dark are opposites.... However, peace and evil are not opposites. Good and evil would be opposites. So, the proper translation should be "unpeace" or disaster... conflict. If you look below at various different versions... the KJV has a mistranslation, but the rest follow through well enough.

New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.



I don't think God does not do moral evil, but I can believe God can cause disaster. The verse also shows the theme of opposites and so naturally, evil should be translated as "unpeace."
 
Listen people!

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Jehovah did not create evil! The serpent, the Devil, Satan did!!
 
Magenta said:
Creating the potential for evil (allowing for self will in opposition to the will of God) is not the same as creating evil. God's will can be seen to be expressed in three distinct ways: 1) Sovereign. 2) Moral. 3) Permissive. His sovereign will is recognized through His act of creation. He did not consult us, and further proclaims that He will do as He pleases. His moral will is easily discerned through the commandments. Lastly, His permissive will allows us to oppose Him. We create evil through our own acts of disobedience, defiance, and rebellion.
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You're been burning the midnight oil. My compliments.
 
Josefnospam said:
I can understand the KJV just fine and I like the Language and the way it is written. My problem with other translations is that men often try to make the scriptures easier to understand and only God can give the understanding of his word. Also when we are meeting together we ask that all use the KJV so as to avoid confusion. I can find no reason to change the word evil here. Another place where people want to change a word is in Romans where the scriptures clearly uses the word hated to describe Esau. I have even heard some go so far as to say he loved Esau less. My God can't love anything less and again it plainly says hated. But translations aside it is God who loves or hates and also creates peace and evil.
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This is kind of self-defeating when you turn to Luke 14:26, and read that in order to be Jesus' disciple, we are to "hate" our entire families....... That includes the parents we are told to honor.
 
Greetings,

In another place scripture it states to love and honor your mother and father and here you saying that Jesus is using the word "Hate" which is not true. If you look at the word being used you would understand what is being said:

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Miseo - to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.
The word Miseo in this case should not be translated as "Hate" and that because the Lord is not saying that we ought to hate and that because it is not apart of his will for us. In fact, since he says elsewhere that we are to love all people, even our enemies, then how could he then be telling us to hate our parents, wives, son's and daughter's, etc.? Therefore, the correct rendering of the word Miseo in this case should be something like the following:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not 'love less' than me, his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple"

To hate other people, much less our own family members would be in direct opposition of what God says regarding everything that is summed up in the law and the prophets that being, to love the Lord our God with all our heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, to Love your neighbor as yourself.
 
Ahwatukee said:
Greetings,

In another place scripture it states to love and honor your mother and father and here you saying that Jesus is using the word "Hate" which is not true. If you look at the word being used you would understand what is being said:

====================================================
Miseo - to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.
The word Miseo in this case should not be translated as "Hate" and that because the Lord is not saying that we ought to hate and that because it is not apart of his will for us. In fact, since he says elsewhere that we are to love all people, even our enemies, then how could he then be telling us to hate our parents, wives, son's and daughter's, etc.? Therefore, the correct rendering of the word Miseo in this case should be something like the following:

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not 'love less' than me, his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple"

To hate other people, much less our own family members would be in direct opposition of what God says regarding everything that is summed up in the law and the prophets that being, to love the Lord our God with all our heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, to Love your neighbor as yourself.
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If that was in answer to my post (since you quoted no one so we could tell)..... Uh, your point?
 
Just as a matter of curiosity, does anyone here know who and what satan was to the original Jews, and what they taught about the Yetzers?
 
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Josefnospam said:
God made the earth. He made night and Day. Hot and cold. And he created some vessels for wrath and others for mercy, even us the elect. He makes peace and creates evil. Praise the LORD for all he does.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things"

Let us praise the Lord and give thank to him for his salvation for he is in heaven and we are on earth. Therefore give him ALL the honor and glory due his name for he does as he pleases.

Psalm 115:3 "Our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he pleases"

People sometimes ask why bad things happen. They happen because it is the will of God. ALL things are in his hands. Thank you Lord for your mercy and your Grace. We are in the hands of almighty God who will never fail. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so.

Psalm 107:2 "Let the redeemed of the Lord say so whom he has redeemed from the hand of the enemy"
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I think we created evil. All the Lord has done is fix our mistakes.
 
Apparently, the Yetzers were advisers or counselors.

Pro 20:18 Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war.

עצה
‛êtsâh
ay-tsaw'
From H3289; advice; by implication plan; also prudence: - advice, advisement, counsel ([-lor]), purpose.
 
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