God did away with some of His own sayings

[KennethC]

This is why the bible says the Law should not be debated between believers because it would lead to unedifying division among believers.

We do not obey, observe, or void the Law by faith, we "establish it !!!" (Romans 3:31)

How do we establish it ?

We do this by simply walking in love to all and love does no harm to self and others, therefore instead of transgressing it we fulfill it !!! Focus on walking in love and not on physical ordinances and everything will fall in place !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is why the bible says the Law should not be debated between believers because it would lead to unedifying division among believers.

We do not obey, observe, or void the Law by faith, we "establish it !!!" (Romans 3:31)

How do we establish it ?

We do this by simply walking in love to all and love does no harm to self and others, therefore instead of transgressing it we fulfill it !!! Focus on walking in love and not on physical ordinances and everything will fall in place !!!

Amen, walking in step with the spirit. the law of love..

 

[just-me]

I have studied a little on the spiritual meanings (plural) of the feast of tabernacles, both foliage and offerings in relation to the New Testament gospel. I would share what I have found (which is probably very little of a much bigger picture) if anyone would like to know. According to the Biblical calendar, it begins this month on the 28th, but that doesn't mean we only have 7 days to talk about it. LOL

Ask and I will share what I know. I'm sure that there would be some questions that I cannot answer.

 

[Billyd]

Thanks Ben, just-me, and others. It's great to see Christians discuss Christ without drawing swords and fighting.

Thanks Lynn for initiating this discussion.

It would be great to see a thread on the feasts and how they relate to the coming of Christ. I'm not physically able to keep with running the thread, but Ben and Just-me seem like the team to do it.

 

[Magenta]

It would be great to see a thread on the feasts and how they relate to the coming of Christ.

There was such a thread started a few weeks ago...

 

[gotime]

Most Christians Don't know the Old Covenant, because of this they missus and misinterpret the new. Get used to it.

 

[just-me]

Most Christians Don't know the Old Covenant, because of this they missus and misinterpret the new. Get used to it.

Ya, I have noticed that. Many times the turning of the other cheek in the sermon on the mount is used to debunk the eye for an eye tooth for tooth in the OT when the principle outcome is the same, and they don't know it because they've never read it. It is vain to argue against something that we know very little about. It's like advising another not to walk to a place where you've never been because you heard somebody else say not to go where they have never been because they just didn't want to, so it had to be bad. LOL

 

[seed_time_harvest]

If I see two people who claim to be christian, and seek out to see what kind of life they life.

1 This man lives his life trying to obey the mosaic law. They observe the Jewish traditions, and are openly conscious of making sure they are not sinning, and living moral lives. They attend church regularly, Are huge givers to the church (they tithe and above) are avid sabbath keepers. and when you look at their lives, You can not see any part of their life which would be sinful.

2. This man lives his life serving others, He is always looking for someone to serve, he is involved in the church in community outreach, He is involved in the inner city by serving the homeless people who are torn by addiction. He helps in serving inner city youth programs. He is usually very busy on the sabbath with some sort of outreach (in fact almost every day of his life is involved in the church, serving a few men in discipleship and cell groups, and inner city or youth programs) If you look at his life. You really can not see any moreal sin issues. in fact if you put both people together, neither one would be considered a sinner.

I would follow number 2 any day of the week. I feel number 2 is more christlike, Acts more like the church and how God and the apostles told them they were to be. And he is the type of person I desire to be.

As for person number 1. I can not even say If he is saved or not. He looks like a person who loves God. but thats about all I can say about him.

I agree and it would be because I have a desire to serve in TRUTH.

 

[pottersclay]

I think it's a shame to put the distance between Jew and Christian beliefs as far apart as they are.
Many churches preach null and void in one way or another to the old.
We( Jew and Christian) both serve a never changing God which should send a red flag up to some but their thought patterns are not there yet.
It's as if some people think that Jesus started another religion, he came to fulfil not to destroy.
I think that's where a lot of the false teaching and off the wall theology come from.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it's a shame to put the distance between Jew and Christian beliefs as far apart as they are.
Many churches preach null and void in one way or another to the old.
We( Jew and Christian) both serve a never changing God which should send a red flag up to some but their thought patterns are not there yet.
It's as if some people think that Jesus started another religion, he came to fulfil not to destroy.
I think that's where a lot of the false teaching and off the wall theology come from.

I agree, I think the problem comes with what we think is important. Do we think following some religious observance, like a moasic instruction, is more important, or do we think that serving the world is more important.

The religious observation was given for a reason (God even gave us a few in the NT, Like baptism and communion) but when we take them out of context. or try to push that view on others, we start to look like the world.

Paul had to openly call out peter because he refused to eat certain meats with the gentiles when the jews were around. The law is done away with, those observances no longer are required to make one sanctified in God. Because jesus fulfilled them.

So if I am with a gentiles. I will act as a Gentile. if I am with a Jew, I am not going to offend them, but will observe their traditions.

Yet if one chastens me because I decide to have a few pork chops and potatoes for dinner. and claim I am in sin because I am disobeying the law, Then they are out of line.

 

[just-me]

I think it's a shame to put the distance between Jew and Christian beliefs as far apart as they are.
Many churches preach null and void in one way or another to the old.
We( Jew and Christian) both serve a never changing God which should send a red flag up to some but their thought patterns are not there yet.
It's as if some people think that Jesus started another religion, he came to fulfil not to destroy.
I think that's where a lot of the false teaching and off the wall theology come from.

True! So true! It started way back in the first century with Ignatius, Marcion falsehoods which eventually was adopted by the RCC in the 5th century through Constantine in the 3rd century. The Nicene creed demanded Jews to reject their heritage in order to join this Gentile church when in fact Paul wrote the opposite in his epistles. Romans 1:16
Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century

Even Jesus said that salvation was of the Jews. "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22

So with tongue in cheek I submit my understanding of the mystery Paul was preaching, and that is the Gentiles are grafted into this true olive tree and not the other way around. Jesus words indicate clearly that if we believe anything different, that we have no idea who we are worshiping or following.

 

[just-me]

I have to add something that I have seen in CC since I began posting on the BDF. There are those that post and start threads with persuasions of "come on people, let's learn and help each other to mature in Christ," because Jesus IS the complete word of God. And then there are others who believe that by endorsing this is against the grace of God, and they categorize those who want to grow in the grace and knowledge of God as leagalists and Judaizers, preaching with all fervency to "STOP IT, STOP IT, YOU ARE PREACHING THE FALSEHOOD OF WORKS ALONE!"

God says "GO!" Satan says "STOP!"

However, I still don't think the stoppers are doing this on purpose to serve another Jesus, they are just more interested in contending for their own doctrine rather than contending for a true faith in Christ.

Mark 13:22

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True! So true! It started way back in the first century with Ignatius, Marcion falsehoods which eventually was adopted by the RCC in the 5th century through Constantine in the 3rd century. The Nicene creed demanded Jews to reject their heritage in order to join this Gentile church when in fact Paul wrote the opposite in his epistles. Romans 1:16
Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century

Even Jesus said that salvation was of the Jews. "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22

So with tongue in cheek I submit my understanding of the mystery Paul was preaching, and that is the Gentiles are grafted into this true olive tree and not the other way around. Jesus words indicate clearly that if we believe anything different, that we have no idea who we are worshiping or following.

Telling a jew to give up their traditions or else you can't be saved. that's no better than a Jew telling a gentile they have to follow jewish mosaic tradition (law) if they want to be a part of Gods family and/or learn how to live holy lives

See the irony? Paul was against both.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to add something that I have seen in CC since I began posting on the BDF. There are those that post and start threads with persuasions of "come on people, let's learn and help each other to mature in Christ," because Jesus IS the complete word of God. And then there are others who believe that by endorsing this is against the grace of God, and they categorize those who want to grow in the grace and knowledge of God as leagalists and Judaizers, preaching with all fervency to "STOP IT, STOP IT, YOU ARE PREACHING THE FALSEHOOD OF WORKS ALONE!"

God says "GO!" Satan says "STOP!"

However, I still don't think the stoppers are doing this on purpose to serve another Jesus, they are just more interested in contending for their own doctrine rather than contending for a true faith in Christ.

Mark 13:22

Saying it is wrong to tell a jew to sop following moasic law is wrong and needs to stop

in the same token, saying a gentile has to start following mosaic law if they want to be saved, if they want to stay saved, or if they want to grow in Christ (true holiness) is just as wrong 2 are false gospels. and the last is not really going to help a person grown in Christ, if anything it will stunt his growth, because they need to focus on more important things, like serving others.

Lets stop being hypocrites and saying they are wrong for telling a jew they must stop, then turn around and be just like them and thell them they must be like a jew or else.

 

[KennethC]

True! So true! It started way back in the first century with Ignatius, Marcion falsehoods which eventually was adopted by the RCC in the 5th century through Constantine in the 3rd century. The Nicene creed demanded Jews to reject their heritage in order to join this Gentile church when in fact Paul wrote the opposite in his epistles. Romans 1:16
Protestants follow many Catholic traditions that began during the 1st century

Even Jesus said that salvation was of the Jews. "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22

So with tongue in cheek I submit my understanding of the mystery Paul was preaching, and that is the Gentiles are grafted into this true olive tree and not the other way around. Jesus words indicate clearly that if we believe anything different, that we have no idea who we are worshiping or following.

Problem I always have with statements like this is that anything mentioned in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries can not be Catholic traditions.

Catholic rather with the capital "C" or the lower case "c" was not even used or heard of tell mid way through the 2nd century (101-200 AD). Even then it was the lower case form and only stood for the universal aspect that any nationality can become a believer in Christ.

The capital form was not used tell the 4th century to give it the denominational one church aspect that we see now days.

The term Catholic was never to be used to speak of the only one true Church, it is only another denominational term created by man.

Some people do not like the term universal used for the true Church, but that is only because they have been taught how the Catholic's have changed and miss used the term not how it was originally to be used.

 

[Billyd]

As I followed Ben and Just-me's discussion, I began to see that two people that appeared to have different interpretations of the scripture arrived at the same conclusion. "We are all saved by grace through faith."

Many times I see scripture posted as the answer to someones question, with no explanation of how it answers the question. I also see scriptures posted with poor or questionable explanations. Finally I see explanations with no scripture. In my many years of studying the scriptures, I have found one thing supreme. If two scriptures appear to contradict, we are probably a long way from the rest of the story. May I suggest one thing. Rather than trying to prove that the other person is wrong, take the time to look at whether both parties are looking at the scripture through polarized lenses. Make sure that the scriptures you are using aren't contradicted by others.

 

[just-me]

As I followed Ben and Just-me's discussion, I began to see that two people that appeared to have different interpretations of the scripture arrived at the same conclusion. "We are all saved by grace through faith."

Many times I see scripture posted as the answer to someones question, with no explanation of how it answers the question. I also see scriptures posted with poor or questionable explanations. Finally I see explanations with no scripture. In my many years of studying the scriptures, I have found one thing supreme. If two scriptures appear to contradict, we are probably a long way from the rest of the story. May I suggest one thing. Rather than trying to prove that the other person is wrong, take the time to look at whether both parties are looking at the scripture through polarized lenses. Make sure that the scriptures you are using aren't contradicted by others.

Well said brother! If we used some of God's words (by our own misconceptions) that cannot be coordinated with all the rest of God's words, we have not the correct interpretation of the whole truth. Scripture doesn't contradict itself, and is all currently relevant for all people today, because the Giver is perfect.

 

[BenFTW]

We definitely agree that we are saved by grace through faith. It seems to me that we differ on how we get sanctified (in the here and now), is what I gathered from our discussion. I, personally, don't believe observance to the Law sanctifies a person in their daily walk. I don't mean to say the Law has bad principles to live by, it doesn't. I am saying that the way to overcome sin in our lives is not done by an attempt to be holy through following the commandments of God in the Law.

Rather, as scripture says, "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under Law but grace." That revelation itself loosens the shackles of sin's grip. We must believe what God's word says in relation to us so that we walk out what we believe. As I was saying earlier, all action is preceded by thought. What you believe about yourself effects your conduct. So if God says sin will not dominate your life because you are dead to it, believe it! Then walk it out. This is why we renew our minds to the truth of God's word, so that we may reign in life (Romans 5:17). As we received Jesus [in faith] so we walk in Him [by faith]. Believe what he says about you and let is revolutionize your life.


Colossians 2:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

 

[just-me]

We definitely agree that we are saved by grace through faith. It seems to me that we differ on how we get sanctified (in the here and now), is what I gathered from our discussion. I, personally, don't believe observance to the Law sanctifies a person in their daily walk. I don't mean to say the Law has bad principles to live by, it doesn't. I am saying that the way to overcome sin in our lives is not done by an attempt to be holy through following the commandments of God in the Law.

Rather, as scripture says, "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under Law but grace." That revelation itself loosens the shackles of sin's grip. We must believe what God's word says in relation to us so that we walk out what we believe. As I was saying earlier, all action is preceded by thought. What you believe about yourself effects your conduct. So if God says sin will not dominate your life because you are dead to it, believe it! Then walk it out. This is why we renew our minds to the truth of God's word, so that we may reign in life (Romans 5:17). As we received Jesus [in faith] so we walk in Him [by faith]. Believe what he says about you and let is revolutionize your life.


Colossians 2:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Believing and studying the law doesn't put a person under it IF they are searching for the truth to be found in it by the GIFT of faith. Faith is the foundational catalyst of righteous production. Then, for a fact, faith is THE substantial gift that causes God's work to be done. Without the faith, the doing is vain.

Summary;

It's all from God, and not of ourselves. We then boast of God and not of ourselves. He makes all things work for good.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28

 

[pottersclay]

A lot of these discussions make me think back to the Jews of old at the temple or gate and they would argue about the same things I guess...they had a term for it ,I think it was called hetsva...or hetsba something like that.
Anyways it is said that "that is like killing your father and mother then throwing yourself on the mercy of the court as a orphan."
Gayle Erwin. Lol