I see no reason to provide information which you can easily obtain by reading the Bible.
God had given us a commandment the Tithes & Offerings. How people today followed the commandment?
- Thread starter Godsgood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Just to clarify for those who really do not know.
What you said was not the case for when tithing was instituted.
For, Israel was a theocracy.
Now, corrupted clergy use it the way as you stated, in distortion and abuse.
Get the right timeline.
When He said those words Jesus was about to send them out.
It does not say they went out right after he told them.
Pentecost had not yet taken place?
After that, is when they went out...
When we read in Torah how Yah defined the tithe, it required nothing from wage earners. Period. Even the men working as laborers in the fields from which the tithe was required, their wages were not a target for the requirement to tithe. Not one red cent was required of their wages to be handed over to the Levite.
So, if you think that's wrong, please do quote scripture that shows such.
MM
In the Old Testament, was it generally accepted by the people that Jesus Christ had all authority in heaven and on earth?
No. No it wasn't.
This transference of authority occurred when Jesus died and rose from the dead.
It had to be witnessed by men because the benefits of the New Covenant were for men.
In the time of the Torah, the concept of "money" was not solely based on minted coins with fixed values, but also on the inherent value of commodities and precious metals
.
Here's a breakdown of what constituted money in the Torah:
- Commodities: Early forms of trade relied on barter, exchanging goods directly. Certain commodities, such as cattle and hides, gained wide acceptance as a means of payment. Livestock, particularly sheep, were used for money, and even gold pieces have been found shaped like sheep.
- Precious Metals (Silver and Gold): These were highly valued and used as a medium of exchange, a store of value, and a means of accounting.
- Weight Units: Instead of minted coins, quantities of metal were measured by weight, with the shekel being a primary unit of weight for silver.
- "Shekel of the Sanctuary": God established a standard weight for silver, known as the "shekel of the sanctuary," which was kept in the tabernacle's holy place and used for valuations related to the Tabernacle and Temple upkeep.
- Silver Shekels: Silver shekels, which were flat pieces of silver with Hebrew symbols, served as a currency for trade and transactions, particularly for larger deals.
- Minted Coins: True coined money, pieces of metal stamped with authority, became more prevalent after the Babylonian captivity and during later periods of Jewish history. For example, during the Jewish revolt against the Romans, Jews created their own coins to emphasize their sovereignty.
So then? Please quote scripture to verify what you just said is so.
In the Torah, there was no standardized minted coinage to work with.
The Jews equated wealth with things they possessed.
Not some wage as you stated it to be. One tenth of their flocks, etc.
It was later as when Rome took over that coinage became an expected realm for exchange.
It is beyond Jesus simply rose from the dead.
That aspect after his burial verified the Resurrection from the dead.
But, he had to ascend back to heaven first to become glorified by the Father in order to be made experientially manifesting all power and authority as God. He would no longer need to pray to the Father to have something done by God's power.
He had to ascend to Heaven to become glorified in Heaven before the great explosion of Pentecost took place.
Pentecost was to give THE PERMANENT indwelling of the Holy Spirit to all believers.
Permanent indwelling.
Not like OT believers had been granted the Holy Spirit on a conditional basis
OT: Psalm 51:11
Cast me not away from your presence,
and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
Church: Hebrews 13:5Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have,
for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
grace and peace ...........
No. Pentecost was a baptism with the Holy Spirit. That was a baptism of power.
John testified regarding the baptism of power:
Jesus said this
"On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
After He said this, this is recorded:
8 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
9 "After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight."
So Jesus baptized no one while he was on the earth.
In Chapter 2 of Acts this occurs:
"When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them..."
The evidence of power at that moment was tongues, a spiritual gift.
Jesus breathing on them was the indwelling Spirit: one that signified the change of identity. It was at Pentecost that the disciples received the baptism with the Spirit: Christ preformed this from heaven by the Spirit. This is the baptism of power.
It was after that, that Peter stood with the eleven to WITNESS to the Jewish crowd. This also fulfilled the verse above:
8 "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
That, too!
Yes, tongues were given as a sign.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1 Corinthians 1:22
Jews required a sign.
That sign was given as an indicator that the Holy Spirit was being given to the Church.
Those without their own livestock or crops necessarily could not tithe according to the law. The method by which debts were settled is irrelevant to the thread topic.
Let's try Deuteronomy 14 again....
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe
of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the
presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name,
so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.
24 But if that place is too distant, and you have been blessed by the Lord your God
and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name
is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go
to the place the Lord your God will choose.
26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink,
or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the
Lord your God and rejoice.
Israel was essentially an agricultural nation. (Land of milk and honey).
And, from what can be gleaned from what is written in the law?
It appears that the laborer would most likely be one of the foreigners who were often mentioned in the law.
Foreigners were not commanded to tithe.
However, foreigners (also Levites, fatherless and widows) who resided in Israel were beneficiaries of a specific tithe called the "poor tithe" or "third tithe"
Deuteronomy 14:28-29 and Deuteronomy 26:12.
The Jews did not have a government issued currency.
But rather, pieces of silver that were carefully weighed and stamped as a means for exchange.
So, silver would be used instead of produce from their flocks as a perfect substitute.
grace and peace ...........
Enlightened me again, if this facts is according to the World History (literally happened).
As I have read, Israel was established in 1948.
Re-established.
But, as a secular nation, not a theocracy.
Not as it was, as when it was from Moses to the time of John the Baptist.
For then, it was a theocracy.
@Genez, very interesting. This segways into another topic that was brought up on these forums.....Gotta dig a bit and your insight was something I didn't consider.....Thanks.
don't mind me, but
"segues"
Funny… Ironically, I perfectly understood what he meant, but not yours.
Most of the most commonly confused words in English are old pairs: affect and effect, or discrete and discreet.
But a new pair has developed in the last dozen or so years: segway and segue. You see it in informal writing,
and in constructions like "let me segway to a new topic."
The word Ancient Israel couldn't find in the World History?
It can only read in the Bible?
It's like saying "colonial America" in contrast to the current United States of America.
One knowing history should know the differences.
Ancient Israel is a phase that Israel manifested during the days from Moses to John the Baptist.