God's will

[prove-all]

Prayer is a petition to God, so the issue is why petition God for His will be done if His will will be done regardless?

again i believe that verse 9 and 10 is a statement, like an introduction.

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 (Thy kingdom come). (Thy will be done) (in earth), (as it is) in heaven.

No amount of praying will change this fact above.
then we get into what you want to say.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

and you can pray that you or others will do his will now on earth will help,
in this current evil generation, that the devil has the whole world decieved.

 

[forsha]

Well you answered your own question in the question.
You said a carnal man, and if the person is carnal then they have not been born again in the first place.
The scriptures I gave is not speaking of the carnal man, they are talking to believers in Christ about obtaining salvation.
The carnal man sets their mind only on the things of the flesh, and not the Spirit. Paul shows this clearly from his transition in Romans 7 to Romans 8, as Paul calls himself carnal in 7 but then in 8 shows that he now walks in the Spirit and is no longer carnal as that leads to death.

Your are saying "The scriptures I gave is not speaking of the carnal man, they are talking to believers in Christ about obtaining salvation", and I am assuming you mean eternal salvation. That's why I referred you to 1 Cor 2:14, If a person is a believer in Christ they are already saved eternally. It's either one of the two, a person who has never been born of the Spirit is carnal, a person who believes in Christ is born of the Spirit and has eternal life. The carnal man before he is born of the Spirit has only one nature. The person who has been born of the Spirit(as was in Paul's case and ours too) have two natures living inside them, the natural man and the spiritual man and these two are constantly warring against each other(Romans 7:23). When we are born of the Spirit, we do not lose our fleshly nature (Gal 5:17). When we are led by the Spirit we are not serving the law of the flesh, but if we all could walk in the Spirit all of the time, there would be no need to repent, only Christ could do that.

 

[forsha]

Was Nineveh destroyed as Jonah preached it would be?

It was not God's will that Nineveh be destroyed, or he would not have sent Jonah to preach to them.

 

[dcontroversal]

It was not God's will that Nineveh be destroyed, or he would not have sent Jonah to preach to them.

Amen.....they did not know their right hands from their left hands and there was also much cattle....God did spare them, then later used them to judge the Northern Kingdom of Israel and then decimated them by the Babylonians because of the violence they used against Israel.....God is God for sure and he does as he pleases!

 

[Elin]

Prayer is a petition to God, so the issue is
why petition God for His will be done if His will will be done regardless?

You think like a natural man, rather than a spiritual man.

To petition God is to align one's will with his,
to exercise one's faith, trust in and dependency on his sovereign will.

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done" is one petition.

The kingdom is the rule of Christ in the hearts of men, effecting obedience to God.

To pray for Christ's kingdom to come is to pray for his rule in the hearts of men, where he is obeyed.

It is to pray for God's purpose in the earth, it is to believe, trust and depend on him.

 

[tribesman]

I'm thinkin' the Bible knows nothing of God unwillingly "allowing" what he does not wish to happen
(Ex 4:11b; Dt 32:39; 1Sa 2:7; 1Kgs 11:14, 23, 12:15, 24; Job 1:12; Is 45:7, 53:10, 54:16;
Jer 44:27-28; Lam 3:37-38; Amos 3:6; Zec 1:16; Mt 10:29; Jn 9:2-3; Rev 17:17).

Nor does the Bible know anything of a "permissive" will of God (Ex 4:21, 9:16; 1Sa 18:10;
2Sa 24:1, 10; 1Kgs 22:23; Job 12:16; Eze 14:9; Da 4:25).

The Bible knows only the revealed will of God, which man is commanded to obey and does not,
and the secret will of God, which God has decided it is best for us not to know (Dt 29:29), and
which is always done (Is 46:10-11).

*bump*
I don't go into the debate/s about whether God "willingly" or "unwillingly" wills all that comes to pass, since it's not very profitable. But I agree on the "permissive will of God" notion. I am thinking that the term and its usage is primarily of arminian origin being used when its followers are outside the will of God but cannot confess it (since that would mean they are the children of the devil) and instead make up an "alternative route" or "wrestling" as to downplay what in actuality is sin, calling it "mistake" or similar.

 

[jb]

It means God's will is always done. . .

Really...?

2Peter 3v9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Matt 23v37: ""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

 

[forsha]

Really...?

2Peter 3v9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Matt 23v37: ""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

God allows man to make choices while he lives his life here on earth, but God does not allow man to have any part in his eternal salvation, that is totally by God's grace without the help of man.

 

[Grandpa]

Really...?

2Peter 3v9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Matt 23v37: ""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

359 + x = (Only God Knows)

Everyone tries to describe x in their very own understanding. Unfortunately, you would have to put yourself in the place of God to know what x is.

 

[Elin]

Really...?

2Peter 3v9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Matt 23v37: ""O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

See post #66, secret will of God.

 

[jb]

God allows man to make choices while he lives his life here on earth, but God does not allow man to have any part in his eternal salvation, that is totally by God's grace without the help of man.

359 + x = (Only God Knows)

Everyone tries to describe x in their very own understanding. Unfortunately, you would have to put yourself in the place of God to know what x is.

See post #66, secret will of God.

At the end of the day, EVERY individual makes a freewill choice to either accept the truth OR reject it, that responsibility is EACH individual's NOT God's, for God desires ALL to be saved! 1Tim 2v4, 2Peter 3v9

From the point of view of God's foreknowledge, He knows ALL those who will receive the truth and be saved from before creation, but God does NOT force man's will, that responsibility lies with EACH INDIVIDUAL! Ezek 18, Matt 23v37, Acts 2v21

SIMPLE!

Rom 8v29,30: "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

The Predestination and Election of God are represented in Scripture as being dependent upon His Foreknowledge, and not vice versa. Men are not depicted as acting because God has forced their wills: but God is said to predestinate them to do what His Foreknowledge knows they will want to do, "whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate".

Yahweh Shalom

 

[SeaBass]

You think like a natural man, rather than a spiritual man.

To petition God is to align one's will with his,
to exercise one's faith, trust in and dependency on his sovereign will.

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done" is one petition.

The kingdom is the rule of Christ in the hearts of men, effecting obedience to God.

To pray for Christ's kingdom to come is to pray for his rule in the hearts of men, where he is obeyed.

It is to pray for God's purpose in the earth, it is to believe, trust and depend on him.

We are all natural men for none here have been given the miraculous power of inspiration to receive revelatory words from the Holy Spirit as the writer of the bible had. We all here, to know what is in the mind of God, must read those words written down for us by those inspired bible writers.

Again, Albert Barnes, a Calvinists says of "thy will be done" - "The will of God is, that people should obey his law, and be holy. The word “will,” here, has reference to his law, and to what would be “acceptable” to him. To pray, then, that his will may be done, on earth as in heaven, is to pray that his “law,” his “revealed will,” may be obeyed and loved. His law is perfectly obeyed in heaven, and his true children most ardently desire and pray that it may also be obeyed on the earth."

It is God's preceptive will, God's desire/wish all men come to repentance and disciples are to pray that will of God should be done, that all men may come to repentance and be saved.


You never did say if RC Sproul was wrong.

 

[SeaBass]

It was not God's will that Nineveh be destroyed, or he would not have sent Jonah to preach to them.

Jonah 3:2,4 "Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.....And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."

God did Jonah to preach "yet 40 days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown" so it was God's will that disobedient city be overthrown. If not, then why would verse 10 say " God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."?

What would God have to "repent of" if it were never His will the city be overthrown?

 

[Elin]

Prayer is a petition to God, so the issue is
why petition God for His will be done if His will will be done regardless?

You think like a natural man, rather than a spiritual man.

To petition God is to align one's will with his,
to exercise one's faith, trust in and dependency on his sovereign will.

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done" is one petition.

The kingdom is the rule of Christ in the hearts of men, effecting obedience to God.

To pray for Christ's kingdom to come is to pray for his rule in the hearts of men, where he is obeyed.

It is to pray for God's purpose in the earth, it is to believe, trust and depend on him.

We are all natural men

That's not what the NT says.

You never did say if RC Sproul was wrong.

Correct, I showed that we are in agreement.