GOD'S WORD vs. man's opinion like GWHs.

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OK I see that now. So Pilgrim never mind. :)

I don't know how some can get simple things so mixed up. Water baptism does not at all replace being baptiized in or with the Holy Spirit.

Yea, it is sad but when some people are brought up being taught something other than what HIS word says they just run with it as it's true.

Satan's plan, keep them out of the water, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.

It's working.

I started this tread at gwh's request due to him not showing me in GOD word where he was right and GOD word wrong. Then he would answer them here either.
 
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Yea, it is sad but when some people are brought up being taught something other than what HIS word says they just run with it as it's true.

Satan's plan, keep them out of the water, if they get in the water keep JESUS name out of it.

It's working.

I started this tread at gwh's request due to him not showing me in GOD word where he was right and GOD word wrong. Then he would answer them here either.

I answer/ping; you disagree/pong.
 
LOL, all 4 questions???

Your kidding right!

What part of this do you not understand?:

1. I believe John's WB that signified repentance was superseded by Christ's SB (per Matt. 3:11, cf. Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13)
2. That WB continued to signify SB (in Acts 2:38 & 10:48), which is the understanding by modern Baptists
3. At no time was the washing with water essential, but rather it is faith in Christ's atonement (1Peter 3:21) that satisfies GRFS.
4. I also believe that WB replaced circumcision as the outward rite/work signifying saving faith (Rom. 2:28-29, 3:21-26 & 4:1-5:1).

At the moment of conversion/repentance or accepting Christ Jesus as Lord (ACTS 20:21), Jesus’ Holy Spirit (HS) enters the convert’s heart (RV 3:20), plugging the person into the power of God, which moment is called “baptism by the Spirit” (1CR 12:13). Confusion may arise from the fact that Paul says there is only one baptism (EPH 4:5), but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS (MT 3:11, JN 1:26-33, ACTS 1:5). Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are harmonized if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. (Most Bibles have a footnote for MK 16:9-20 saying that the passage is not a reliable or well-attested part of the NT canon, so it is problematic to cite v.16 as requiring water baptism for salvation along with drinking poison or handling asps as signs of being saved.)

Again, at the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s HS enters believers’ spiritual hearts (RV 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (RM 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (CL 1:18), which is called spiritual rebirth (JN 3:3-8) or baptism (1CR 12:13). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision. Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (RM 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (EPH 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. MT 3:13-15, ACTS 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in ACTS 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1CR 1:114-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1CR 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left the water baptizing to his assistants.

The outward evidence that someone is Spirit-filled (EPH 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fullness of Christ (EPH 3:19, 4:13) or fruit of the Spirit, which consists of such attributes as those listed in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (JN13:35, 1JN 4:7-21), because “love” sums up the moral character of God (1JN 4:7-8). He did NOT say “…if you are water baptized.”
 
As someone said elsewhere that is also relevant for this thread, so I am sure he won't mind me quoting him:

"Never mind Ouch. He mocks salvation through BELIEVING in Jesus (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26: Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..) and he believes that we MUST also be water baptized "in Jesus' name" ONLY evidenced by speaking in tongues or else we won't be saved and he also DENIES the Trinity.

His church, along with the Oneness Pentecostal church promote these heretical doctrines. According to Ouch, baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an invalid formula for salvation and he has already indirectly condemned me multiple times for not embracing his false gospel. Beware of the leaven of Ouch! I planted seeds, shook the dust off my shoes and moved on with him.

Ouch also does not understand that these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were not genuine believers but "nominal" Christians. They failed to do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21) by looking to the Son and believing in Him to receive eternal life. (John 6:40) Instead, they were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. (Matthew 7:22) Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved. (Matthew 7:23)"

(This also goes for Ouch's ilk.)
 
As someone said elsewhere that is also relevant for this thread, so I am sure he won't mind me quoting him:

"Never mind Ouch. He mocks salvation through BELIEVING in Jesus (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26: Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..) and he believes that we MUST also be water baptized "in Jesus' name" ONLY evidenced by speaking in tongues or else we won't be saved and he also DENIES the Trinity.

His church, along with the Oneness Pentecostal church promote these heretical doctrines. According to Ouch, baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an invalid formula for salvation and he has already indirectly condemned me multiple times for not embracing his false gospel. Beware of the leaven of Ouch! I planted seeds, shook the dust off my shoes and moved on with him.

Ouch also does not understand that these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were not genuine believers but "nominal" Christians. They failed to do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21) by looking to the Son and believing in Him to receive eternal life. (John 6:40) Instead, they were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. (Matthew 7:22) Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved. (Matthew 7:23)"

(This also goes for Ouch's ilk.)
That is the problem what you believe, does it line up with HIS word.

The whole propose of this thread which was inspired by you was to back up what comes out of your mouth with HIS word, or its a LIE.

Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Prove that spaking in tongues stopped.

So I don't offend you I will reword those questions.


Show me where being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Show me where water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Show me where speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Show me where that speaking in tongues stopped.

I thought you quit?

Yep, having the same debate with the mailman but he just adds word to twist scriptures to make them fit his needs, you say things that can't be backed up with HIS word.
 
As someone said elsewhere that is also relevant for this thread, so I am sure he won't mind me quoting him:

"Never mind Ouch. He mocks salvation through BELIEVING in Jesus (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26: Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 15:7-9 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-26; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..) and he believes that we MUST also be water baptized "in Jesus' name" ONLY evidenced by speaking in tongues or else we won't be saved and he also DENIES the Trinity.

His church, along with the Oneness Pentecostal church promote these heretical doctrines. According to Ouch, baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is an invalid formula for salvation and he has already indirectly condemned me multiple times for not embracing his false gospel. Beware of the leaven of Ouch! I planted seeds, shook the dust off my shoes and moved on with him.

Ouch also does not understand that these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were not genuine believers but "nominal" Christians. They failed to do the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21) by looking to the Son and believing in Him to receive eternal life. (John 6:40) Instead, they were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. (Matthew 7:22) Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved. (Matthew 7:23)"

(This also goes for Ouch's ilk.)
That is the problem what you believe, does it line up with HIS word.

The whole propose of this thread which was inspired by you was to back up what comes out of your mouth with HIS word, or its a LIE.

Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Prove that spaking in tongues stopped.

So I don't offend you I will reword those questions.


Show me where being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Show me where water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Show me where speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Show me where that speaking in tongues stopped.

I thought you quit?

Yep, having the same debate with the mailman but he just adds word to twist scriptures to make them fit his needs, you say things that can't be backed up with HIS word.
 
That is the problem what you believe, does it line up with HIS word.

The whole propose of this thread which was inspired by you was to back up what comes out of your mouth with HIS word, or its a LIE.

Prove being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Prove water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Prove that speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Prove that spaking in tongues stopped.

So I don't offend you I will reword those questions.


Show me where being filled with the Holy Ghost fills us with love.

Show me where water baptism was replaced spirit baptism.

Show me where speaking in tongues was morphed into mear babble.

Show me where that speaking in tongues stopped.

I thought you quit?

Yep, having the same debate with the mailman but he just adds word to twist scriptures to make them fit his needs, you say things that can't be backed up with HIS word.

My purpose for you starting this thread was so you would stop polluting my threads with boring repetition, such as what you just did with posts #127 &128.

You and your ilk including Uncharming engage in pejorative persecution/insults rather than discussion of Scripture-based beliefs,
such as you just now ignoring my post #125.
 
My purpose for you starting this thread was so you would stop polluting my threads with boring repetition, such as what you just did with posts #127 &128.

You and your ilk including Uncharming engage in pejorative persecution/insults rather than discussion of Scripture-based beliefs,
such as you just now ignoring my post #125.
So still can't answer the questions I see, no issue I knew you couldn't.

What to get rid of me, keep your word.

We have HIS word and we have men's opinions.

Men's opinion DON'T TRUMP HIS WORD as you think your does.

When you stand in front of JESUS it will be just you and him, he will be judging you by HIS RULE book and you will also be responsible for all of those who you lead astray if any.

Not me, you can't fool me with all of your worldly wisdom.
 
Naw honestly I have no interest in further arguing especially with someone new lol

we were discussing whether baptism for remission of sins had been removed and replaced by some “ spiritual baptism “ which is just removing baptism from the equation in my opinion . But again no interest in arguing for the sake of it

Well I had my answer from the post ouch made and said so when I responded to him and also said, to you, that I now understood. See my post 115 for that. Why would you think I might want to argue because I asked a question that did not even reflect on you? Honestly, this place is like navigating a minefield. People should not speculate on what a person means based on what others say. (y)
 
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Well I had my answer from the post ouch made and said so when I responded to him and also said, to you, that I now understood. See my post 115 for that. Why would you think I might want to argue because I asked a question that did not even reflect on you? Honestly, this place is like navigating a minefield. People should not speculate on what a person means based on what others say. (y)

actually I responded directly to you “ asking where did anyone say baotism has been removed “ i didint do anything to you lol I just made it clear that I have no interest in arguing.

at here was no speculation involved I replied to your post to me and honestly if that offended you I apologize but it was never intended . True you cleared it up later but that response was before I read the other ….clearing it up …..

but there was no speculation from what anyone else said I just replied directly to you . Sometimes if we aren’t following the discussion it gets confusing
 
Not sure what you see now, but I hope you saw what I believe:

I believe John's WB that signified repentance was superseded by Christ's SB (per Matt. 3:11, cf. Rom. 5:5, 1Cor. 12:13) that WB continued to signify (in Acts 2:38 & 10:48) and is the understanding by modern Baptists that I had when I and then my children were WB). At no time was the washing with water essential, but rather it is faith in Christ's atonement (1Peter 3:21) that satisfies GRFS."

I also believe that WB replaced circumcision as the outward rite/work signifying saving faith (cf. Rom. 4).

Well exactly, you are not sure but it seems you have an opinion on it. I was simply clarifying that I understood the answer to my orignal question. I am no Baptist.
 
If you are content with the simple version, then stick with “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).
I have been seeking to learn more of GW per the urging of Hebrews 6:1-3.

I believe a gift may be viewed as spiritual if it is used for godly purposes, such as edifying the body of Christ.
Jesus and Paul exemplified editing when they cited OT Scripture and applied it to the NT Gospel.

No, you have no connection to me or what I think or have learned. Is there something wrong with accepting Christ regarding salvation? (rhetorical question I would think) Scripture is really not more complicated than that. Now what happens after that is another story. Let's not conflate actual salvation through the blood of Christ and our walk that occurs after that fact. You may believe a gift may be viewed as spiritual if used for godly purposes, but that is not what is indicated in the Bible. Is it perhaps that you do not believe in actual spiritual gifts that you look for acceptance in edification through your own talents that you may have surrendered to God?

I have no problem with a person using their own gifts, probably also God given to an individual through DNA or whatever, but that is what we do for God. Now spiritual gifts on the other hand, are given by God to the individual according to His descretion. See the difference? On the one hand, the flow is from us to Him and the other is from Him to us. :)

Frankly, I would like to start a thread to discuss all that occurs at that actual salvation point in time but I hesitatte because I would not like to experience all the nonsense objections that might be flung at it. I don't mean you in that particullar case. But who knows, I may yet do it.
 
actually I responded directly to you “ asking where did anyone say baotism has been removed “ i didint do anything to you lol I just made it clear that I have no interest in arguing.

at here was no speculation involved I replied to your post to me and honestly if that offended you I apologize but it was never intended . True you cleared it up later but that response was before I read the other ….clearing it up …..

but there was no speculation from what anyone else said I just replied directly to you . Sometimes if we aren’t following the discussion it gets confusing

Are you a defence lawyer? LOL! Let it go for petes' sake! I am way past it. It was a question. It was not an accusation. Peace out.
 
Are you a defence lawyer? LOL! Let it go for petes' sake! I am way past it. It was a question. It was not an accusation. Peace out.
Yeah because replying to your comment to me lol is way I called for 😂 I was never holding on to it so everything’s cool as far as I’m concerned
 
Well exactly, you are not sure but it seems you have an opinion on it. I was simply clarifying that I understood the answer to my orignal question. I am no Baptist.

I no longer call myself a (Southern) Baptist, mainly because I learned that OSAS is wrong
and also because the Statement of Faith does not make an accurate creed. Thus, I call myself a Christian.

How do you identify and why?