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godsgirl3777
Guest
In some of the churches today they are paving the way for the false prophet with the lukewarm watered down untruthful sermonettes. Thank u jesus I have a good pastor that tells the truth
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Supplanter
Guest
To be one of Jesus' disciples one must "Hate their own parents. hate their own spouse, hate their own siblings, and hate their own chioldren and hate their own life also" and they must "sell all they own and give the money to the poor" and " take up their cross and follow Jesus" .
You are so sadly mistaken. The ONLY true part of your statement, is "take up their cross and follow Jesus". The bible says NOTHING about hating our parents or siblings or children or lives. The bible says "HONOR thy parents", and "love thy neighbor as thyself". The bible says NOTHING about selling all we own and giving the money to the poor.
Also, this is a 3 year old zombie thread. Please look at the date the thread was created first, and whether who you're responding to has been banned or left. The OP has NOT been back here in nearly 3 years. :/
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Txroads
Guest
Obviously Supplanter doesn't know the bible at all. 
OR he "supplants" his own views of it.. either way, his post is uninformed and ignorant.
OR he "supplants" his own views of it.. either way, his post is uninformed and ignorant.
Luke 14:25-34 NASB (emphasis mine)
Discipleship Tested
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now [SUP][m][/SUP]large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them, [SUP]26 [/SUP]“If anyone comes to Me, and does not [SUP][n][/SUP]hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? [SUP]29 [/SUP]Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, [SUP]30 [/SUP]saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ [SUP]31 [/SUP]Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand? [SUP]32 [/SUP]Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends [SUP][o][/SUP]a delegation and asks for terms of peace. [SUP]33 [/SUP]So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned? [SUP]35 [/SUP]It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, [SUP][p][/SUP]let him hear.”
Now, the word that almost every translation renders as "hate" many scholars hold that it can also be rendered as "hatred by comparison" in other words that your love for Christ is so extreme that your love for anything else appears to be hatred.
[h=4]—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)[/h] From a primary word μῖσος [[misos]] (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less:—hate (-ful).
In context of the passage which is counting the cost of following Christ, it is quite apparent that the truest meaning is that we must willing to forsake everything in this world including possessions and family in order to follow Christ.
So why does the commandment "honor thy parents" and "love thy neighbor" seem to contradict the verses you posted here? And if we're supposed to give up our families and possessions, then why even have them to begin with?
and then there is Matthew 19:16-26 nasb (emphasis mine)
The Rich Young Ruler
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; [SUP]19 [/SUP]Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be [SUP][j][/SUP]complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” [SUP]26 [/SUP]And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Of course based on the context this was Christ's specific instruction to a specific man because Christ knew the man was wealthy, not a general instruction to all believers.
The Rich Young Ruler
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; [SUP]19 [/SUP]Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” [SUP]20 [/SUP]The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” [SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be [SUP][j][/SUP]complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” [SUP]22 [/SUP]But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” [SUP]26 [/SUP]And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Of course based on the context this was Christ's specific instruction to a specific man because Christ knew the man was wealthy, not a general instruction to all believers.
beats me, maybe it's just fun to keep bumping a three year old thread back to the top again.
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AuntieAnt
Guest
Excellent stuff there, Oncefallen! Amen!! \
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Abraham, in his own understanding believed God wanted him to slaughter his son Isaac for a sacrifice. But the Lord showed Abraham that He only wanted him to entrust Isaac to God completely.
As for the rich young ruler, he couldn't part with his riches because in his own understanding "treasures in heaven" didn't compare to his earthly possessions.
Hating our family... giving up everything... following Jesus... none of those things register truthfully in our intellectual minds, in our own understanding. Because the carnal mind can't grasp the things of God. It's impossible for us... BUT NOT WITH GOD!
God gives us His understanding and with the mind of Christ we see that Jesus is saying to follow Him as children follow in the footsteps of their mother & father or their guardian. Jesus teaches us that we can entrust to Him our family, our friends, our possessions, all that we have, even our own lives also. He's not telling us to throw these things away, but to trust Him with them.
The kingdom of heaven is within you. It's Jesus Himself.
/Abraham, in his own understanding believed God wanted him to slaughter his son Isaac for a sacrifice. But the Lord showed Abraham that He only wanted him to entrust Isaac to God completely.
As for the rich young ruler, he couldn't part with his riches because in his own understanding "treasures in heaven" didn't compare to his earthly possessions.
Hating our family... giving up everything... following Jesus... none of those things register truthfully in our intellectual minds, in our own understanding. Because the carnal mind can't grasp the things of God. It's impossible for us... BUT NOT WITH GOD!
God gives us His understanding and with the mind of Christ we see that Jesus is saying to follow Him as children follow in the footsteps of their mother & father or their guardian. Jesus teaches us that we can entrust to Him our family, our friends, our possessions, all that we have, even our own lives also. He's not telling us to throw these things away, but to trust Him with them.
The kingdom of heaven is within you. It's Jesus Himself.