Gospel Confusion...

[Musicmaster]

Further questioning: "How does Paul's Gospel of Grace differ from the Kingdom Gospel?"

The answer:

"Great question — the Gospel of Grace (Paul's gospel) and the Kingdom Gospel are closely related in terms of being part of God's redemptive plan, but they are distinct in content, audience, and purpose—especially when viewed through a dispensational framework.

Let’s break down the key differences between the Gospel of Grace and the Kingdom Gospel:

🕊️ 1. Paul’s Gospel of Grace (The Gospel of Christ / My Gospel)

Primary Scripture: Romans 1:16–17; 1 Corinthians 15:1–4; Ephesians 2:8–9; Galatians 1:11–12

• Content: Salvation by grace through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
• Audience: Primarily to Gentiles, though also offered to Jews.
• Means of Salvation: Faith alone, apart from works or the Mosaic Law.
• Key Message: The finished work of Christ on the cross offers justification, reconciliation, and eternal life to all who believe.
• Mystery Revealed: The Body of Christ — Jew and Gentile united in one new spiritual organism (Ephesians 3:1–6).
• Emphasis: Spiritual blessings in heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3), not earthly kingdoms.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works…”
— Ephesians 2:8–9​

👑 2. The Kingdom Gospel (Gospel of the Kingdom)

Primary Scripture: Matthew 3:1–2; Matthew 4:17, 23; Matthew 10:5–7; Acts 3:19–21

• Content: The proclamation that the Kingdom of Heaven (Messianic Kingdom) was at hand — a restored, earthly kingdom promised to Israel under the rule of Messiah.
• Audience: Israel (the Jews). Jesus and the Twelve initially preached only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10:5–6).
• Means of Salvation: Faith in Jesus as Messiah, with repentance, baptism, and adherence to the covenant.
• Key Message: Repent, for the Kingdom is at hand — a literal, Davidic kingdom on earth.
• Expectation: A restored Israel, with Christ reigning from Jerusalem.
• Emphasis: Earthly blessings and national restoration.

“Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
— Matthew 3:2​

⚠️ A Note on Continuity

While dispensationalists tend to see these gospels as distinct in administration and focus, they do not contradict each other. They are part of a progressive revelation of God’s plan. The Kingdom Gospel was paused (due to Israel’s rejection of Christ), and the Gospel of Grace was revealed to Paul as the message for this present Church Age.


If you're interested, I can also show you how the Book of Acts represents a transition between the two gospels, or how this view differs from other theological frameworks like covenant theology or reformed theology."

MM

 

[Thomas2]

Further questioning: "How does Paul's Gospel of Grace differ from the Kingdom Gospel?"



While dispensationalists tend to see these gospels as distinct in administration and focus, they do not contradict each other. They are part of a progressive revelation of God’s plan. The Kingdom Gospel was paused (due to Israel’s rejection of Christ), and the Gospel of Grace was revealed to Paul as the message for this present Church Age.




MM

Israel did not reject Christ, they rejected themselves.


Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.


Nothing of Christ can be paused..


Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.



Will Israel still abide in unbelief ?


Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.



Yes, Israel believes it is right until this day, and could not be more murderous, and they are given all the tools to do murder with, the EXACT same as they were given power over all the prophets Israel killed, and the Son of God given into the hands of men. ( of Israel.


Luke 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.


But remember, don't forget so quickly, that counsel of God is rejected by the Pharisee Jews. ( But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.)

 

[Musicmaster]

Israel did not reject Christ, they rejected themselves.


Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

No. If you read that again, they rejected the counsel of God against themselves, not God. The text is quite clear in what it says.

Nothing of Christ can be paused..

What? Please elaborate what this means, and what it's in reference to.

Will Israel still abide in unbelief ?

No. Zechariah 12-14 shows to us that Israel will indeed once again embrace Christ Jesus without ever rejecting Him again.

Yes, Israel believes it is right until this day, and could not be more murderous, and they are given all the tools to do murder with, the EXACT same as they were given power over all the prophets Israel killed, and the Son of God given into the hands of men. ( of Israel.

You need not worry about that. 2/3rds of Israel shall be wiped out by her enemies before the remaining 1/3rd weeps as for a first born son for their killing of Christ Jesus and their disbelief.

But remember, don't forget so quickly, that counsel of God is rejected by the Pharisee Jews. ( But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.)

That rejection, as depicted in Luke 13, culminated in the fall of Israel to this day, but they will experience the wrath of God upon them, those who do not flee into the desert places in the middle of the tribulation.

MM

 

[Leastofall]

There is only one savior Jesus Christ.
There is only one way to enter ..faith.
There is only one gospel from four prospective views.
But there are two kinds of believers jew and gentiles.
Could it be that the confusion lies between the adopted and the chosen?

 

[Musicmaster]

There is only one savior Jesus Christ.
There is only one way to enter ..faith.
There is only one gospel from four prospective views.
But there are two kinds of believers jew and gentiles.
Could it be that the confusion lies between the adopted and the chosen?

I agree that, in Christ, the differences cease. The discussion in this thread has to do with the differences between the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul.

MM

 

[homwardbound]

@homwardbound



I dont think you understand this scripture, for it actually teaches that Christs Death alone saved them He died for, sanctified them unto God, thats Salvation. God made Christ to be unto Gods elect, their sanctification 1 Cor 1:30


30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

All of those are blessings of Salvation from Christs Death

God is God of the living, not the dead. The death was fro reconciliation to all from God through Son for us to get given new life in the resurrected Son.
Thanks, and so we all go forward to learn new from God living not only in us yet through us in humility from me at least
I need God to be my guide, anyone else, the true loving God that Son revealed by goin g to that cross without any flesh fight back. "The Art of fighting without fighting"
He is risen as revealed too me in Col 2, thanks fro your view as well. Bottom line to me is love and mercy to all,
Have a blessed day

 

[brightfame52]

God is God of the living, not the dead. The death was fro reconciliation to all from God through Son for us to get given new life in the resurrected Son.
Thanks, and so we all go forward to learn new from God living not only in us yet through us in humility from me at least
I need God to be my guide, anyone else, the true loving God that Son revealed by goin g to that cross without any flesh fight back. "The Art of fighting without fighting"
He is risen as revealed too me in Col 2, thanks fro your view as well. Bottom line to me is love and mercy to all,
Have a blessed day

This makes no sense as it pertains to my previous post.

 

[lrs68]

I agree that, in Christ, the differences cease. The discussion in this thread has to do with the differences between the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul.

MM

Ultimately speaking here, both Gospels are one and the same. One goes into greater detail than the other and spends more time explaining the role of the Spirit of God in our lives and the Church where Yeshua presented the outline of what He was bringing.

I will say that if someone interprets what Paul wrote to be different from what Yeshua presented they are speaking from man made doctrine which has perverted the truth.

 

[Eduardo1968]

Para quem Jesus e Seus 12 discípulos pregaram?

• Jesus: Durante seu ministério terreno, Jesus pregou primariamente aos judeus, descritos como “as ovelhas perdidas da casa de Israel” (Mateus 15:24). Ele foi apresentado como o Messias prometido nas Escrituras hebraicas, cumprindo as profecias do Antigo Testamento (ex.: Isaías 53, Daniel 7:13-14). Embora tenha interagido com gentios (ex.: a mulher sirofenícia em Marcos 7:24-30), seu foco era Israel, preparando o povo para o Reino de Deus.

Em Mateus 10:5-6, Jesus instrui os discípulos: “Não sigais pelo caminho dos gentios, nem entreis na cidade de samaritanos; mas, de preferência, ide às ovelhas perdidas da casa de Israel.”

• Os 12 discípulos: Os discípulos seguiram a mesma orientação, pregando inicialmente aos judeus. Após a ressurreição, Jesus ampliou a missão com a Grande Comissão (Mateus 28:19-20), ordenando que fizessem “discípulos de todas as nações”. Contudo, no início do livro de Atos, os apóstolos ainda focavam em Jerusalém e nas regiões judaicas (Atos 1-7), com Pedro pregando principalmente aos judeus (Atos 2:14-36).

Qual era a mensagem do evangelho deles?

• O evangelho de Jesus e dos 12: A mensagem central era o Evangelho do Reino, que anunciava a chegada do Reino de Deus e a necessidade de arrependimento para fazer parte dele. Jesus proclamava: “Arrependei-vos, porque está próximo o reino dos céus” (Mateus 4:17). Esse evangelho estava enraizado na expectativa judaica de um Messias que restauraria Israel, tanto espiritualmente quanto, para muitos, politicamente.

• Componentes:

• Arrependimento e fé: Convidava os judeus a se arrependerem e crerem em Jesus como o Messias (Marcos 1:15).

• Cumprimento da Lei e dos Profetas: Jesus enfatizouva que cumpriu a Torá (Mateus 5:17), apelando ao contexto judaico.

• Obras e obediência: A entrada no Reino personalizado frutos de justiça (Mateus 7:21-23).

• Contexto: Antes da cruz, o evangelho de Jesus não incluiu explicitamente sua morte e ressurreição como meio de salvação, pois esses eventos ainda não ocorreram. Após a ressurreição, os discípulos começaram a incorporar a morte e nascer de Jesus (Atos 2:22-36), mas ainda dentro de uma mensagem centrada em Israel.

• Exemplo: Em Atos 3:19-21, Pedro prega aos judeus: “Arrependei-vos, pois, e converti-vos, para que sejam apagados os vossos pecados, e venham, assim, os tempos do refrigério pela presença do Senhor.”

Paulo era o apóstolo de… quem?

• Paulo foi especificamente chamado como o apóstolo dos gentios (Romanos 11:13; Gálatas 2:8). Após sua conversão (Atos 9), Jesus o comissionou para levar o evangelho aos gentios, reis e aos filhos de Israel (Atos 9:15). Embora Paulo pregasse também aos judeus (ex.: Atos 13:14-43), seu ministério focava os gentios, alcançando povos não-judeus em regiões como Ásia Menor, Grécia e Roma.

• Evidência: Em Gálatas 2:7-9, Paulo explica que foi “confiado o evangelho da incircuncisão [gentios], assim como a Pedro o da circuncisão [judeus]”. Pedro, Tiago e João consideraram que Paulo tinha uma missão distinta para os gentios.

Qual era o evangelho que Paulo pregava?

• Paulo pregava o Evangelho da Graça de Deus (Atos 20:24), centrado na morte, sepultamento e ressurreição de Jesus como meio de salvação para todos que creem, sem distinção entre judeus e gentios. Ele enfatizou a justificação pela fé, independentemente das obras da Lei (Romanos 3:28; Efésios 2:8-9).

• Componentes:

• Morte e ressurreição: Paulo definindo o evangelho em 1 Coríntios 15:1-4: “Cristo morreu pelos nossos pecados, segundo as Escrituras; foi sepultado e ressuscitou ao terceiro dia, segundo as Escrituras.”

• Salvação pela fé: A salvação vem pela graça mediante a fé, não pela observância da Lei mosaica (Gálatas 2:16).

• Universalidade: O evangelho de Paulo era para “judeus e gregos” (Romanos 1:16), rompendo barreiras étnicas e religiosas.

• Contexto: Paulo pregava em um contexto gentio, onde a Lei mosaica não era culturalmente relevante. Ele adaptou a mensagem para enfatizar a salvação universal, sem exigência de circuncisão ou práticas judaicas (Atos 15; Gálatas 5:6).

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I will say that if someone interprets what Paul wrote to be different from what Yeshua presented they are speaking from man made doctrine which has perverted the truth.

Highly doubtful because of God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

Amen.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ultimately speaking here, both Gospels are one and the same. One goes into greater detail than the other and spends more time explaining the role of the Spirit of God in our lives and the Church where Yeshua presented the outline of what He was bringing.

I will say that if someone interprets what Paul wrote to be different from what Yeshua presented they are speaking from man made doctrine which has perverted the truth.

Yep that’s the claim being made Paul and Jesus preached two different gospels…

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3‬ ‭

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭

“And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; He hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

..And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears…………And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭4:17-19, 21, 43‬ ‭

“And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭9:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.

And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Long time therefore abode they ( Paul and barnabus ) speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, ( the gospel ) with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:1-4, 6

and your conclusion about it, is accurate and biblical

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:6-9

People should really examine what we listen to and agree with some of its baaaaaaad news.

 

[lrs68]

Highly doubtful because of God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

Amen.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name:

How can you receive something without allowing it to happen.

Should someone interpret Paul saying otherwise I would be careful of that person.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Should someone interpret Paul saying otherwise I would be careful of that person.

Yes, agree, always be prayerful while Careful, and Also follow, for sound doctrine, all Bible study Rules! ie:

(1) “Let ALL things be done Decently and In Order!”
(1 Corinthians 14:40 AV)

Especially!: (2) Study ALL Scripture Rightly Divided! :

“Study to shew thyself Approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!”
(2 Timothy 2:15 AV)

(3) Never Ever add to, Or take away From, God’s PURE And Holy Word!
{ Including "God's Contexts!," [Prophecy] Rightly Divided from [MYSTERY]! }
(Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32; Proverbs 30:5-6; Revelation 22:18,19 AV)

(4) Be noble students :

“These (in Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in
that they received The Word with all readiness of mind, and
searched The Scriptures daily, Whether Those Things Were So!”
(Acts 17:11 AV)

(5) Build Sound Doctrine, God’s Way! :

(5a) “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little!”
(Isaiah 28:10 AV)

(5b) Find ALL Related Scriptures For A Specific doctrine! :

”ALL Scripture Is Given By Inspiration Of God, And Is
Profitable For Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness : that the man of God may
be perfect, throughly furnished unto ALL good works!”
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 AV)

(5c) Compare ALL Related Scriptures to learn and know a
Specific doctrine! :

“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s
wisdom teacheth, but Which The Holy Ghost Teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual!”
(1 Corinthians 2:13 AV)
{Comparing ALL Scripture With Scripture!}

“Simplicity” in CHRIST! (2 Corinthians 11:3 AV) Amen?

(6) The Best "Interpretive" Commentary On The Bible Is :
The BIBLE Itself!

NEVER ever interpret The Many Plain Scriptures​

by the "few" difficult verses, But, ALWAYS Always​

Interpret the few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses​

By ALL Of The MANY Plain and Clear Passages Of​

God’s Pure And Holy Word!​

​

Thus, we conclude with ALL These Scriptures ( not just one ) for sound doctrine:

I have decided to follow Jesus? (is there a particular difference that you wish to
"make the same"?)

Amen?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

I agree that, in Christ, the differences cease. The discussion in this thread has to do with the differences between the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul.

MM

I could not help but notice that, though you posited the existence of two DIFFERENT gospels you failed to describe just how the two gospels two alleged messages differed. I think that is important to know; especially if what is at stake is a person's salvation. Jews and Gentiles then, as now, need to know what God expects them to believe and do. If either message can bring salvation then what you are claiming is a distinction without a difference.

As for me I take what Paul said to heart when he wrote to the Galatians that “I am astonished that you are so quickly DESERTING THE ONE who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a DIFFERENT gospel”. [Galatians 1:6]
The word "different" is ETEROS which means ANOTHER (of a fundamentally different KIND). What these false teachers were spreading was not like traditional legalistic Judaeism which would have been ALLOS (one that, while not the truth, RESEMBLED it but only in some superficial ways). Despite similarities one of these two messages ended up leading people away from Christ and from the message that had been taught by Jesus and the Apostles. Paul summarizes saying that this OTHER "message" is, in fact NO GOSPEL AT ALL. Therefore, he was not positing TWO gospels. He was disposing of one and identifying the other as only one

 

[lrs68]

Yes, agree, always be prayerful while Careful, and Also follow, for sound doctrine, all Bible study Rules! ie:

(1) “Let ALL things be done Decently and In Order!”
(1 Corinthians 14:40 AV)

Especially!: (2) Study ALL Scripture Rightly Divided! :

“Study to shew thyself Approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth!”
(2 Timothy 2:15 AV)

(3) Never Ever add to, Or take away From, God’s PURE And Holy Word!
{ Including "God's Contexts!," [Prophecy] Rightly Divided from [MYSTERY]! }
(Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32; Proverbs 30:5-6; Revelation 22:18,19 AV)

(4) Be noble students :

“These (in Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in
that they received The Word with all readiness of mind, and
searched The Scriptures daily, Whether Those Things Were So!”
(Acts 17:11 AV)

(5) Build Sound Doctrine, God’s Way! :

(5a) “For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little!”
(Isaiah 28:10 AV)

(5b) Find ALL Related Scriptures For A Specific doctrine! :

”ALL Scripture Is Given By Inspiration Of God, And Is
Profitable For Doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness : that the man of God may
be perfect, throughly furnished unto ALL good works!”
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 AV)

(5c) Compare ALL Related Scriptures to learn and know a
Specific doctrine! :

“Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s
wisdom teacheth, but Which The Holy Ghost Teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual!”
(1 Corinthians 2:13 AV)
{Comparing ALL Scripture With Scripture!}

“Simplicity” in CHRIST! (2 Corinthians 11:3 AV) Amen?

(6) The Best "Interpretive" Commentary On The Bible Is :
The BIBLE Itself!

NEVER ever interpret The Many Plain Scriptures​

by the "few" difficult verses, But, ALWAYS Always​

Interpret the few Obscure/Difficult/Dubious verses​

By ALL Of The MANY Plain and Clear Passages Of​

God’s Pure And Holy Word!​

​

Thus, we conclude with ALL These Scriptures ( not just one ) for sound doctrine:

I have decided to follow Jesus? (is there a particular difference that you wish to
"make the same"?)

Amen?

Ultimately you end on I have decided to follow Jesus. There's enough scripture evidence from the Epistle of Peter, Jude, Hebrews, etc that talk about those who knew the light and partook of the Holy Spirit and walked away. So it seems no matter how someone can say you were saved there is still the issue you can choose to continue following or stop following Jesus should you decide.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Ultimately you end on I have decided to follow Jesus.

Precious friend, I apologize if there is a misunderstanding, because there were More Scriptures to review for my conclusion of "two Different gospels" ie: Did you see all the "Rightly Divided" Scriptures 'within' my [ colored ] 'link'?:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

And, I appreciate your kind and humble discussion of God's Important Matters.

 

[Musicmaster]

Ultimately speaking here, both Gospels are one and the same. One goes into greater detail than the other and spends more time explaining the role of the Spirit of God in our lives and the Church where Yeshua presented the outline of what He was bringing.

I will say that if someone interprets what Paul wrote to be different from what Yeshua presented they are speaking from man made doctrine which has perverted the truth.

Do you not see a problem with what you're proposing here? To say that one leaves out any eternally important element(s) for salvation, that is an accusation against Paul for the sin of omission. Why would he ever have left out anything, in your thinking, that has to do with salvation?

Peter clearly stated that water baptism was unto the remission of sins. If that were still valid under the Gospel of Grace, why would Paul ever leave something like that out if it were the means for remission of sins?

Please give this more thought and then let me know what you glean from these questions in relation to the text.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I could not help but notice that, though you posited the existence of two DIFFERENT gospels you failed to describe just how the two gospels two alleged messages differed. I think that is important to know; especially if what is at stake is a person's salvation. Jews and Gentiles then, as now, need to know what God expects them to believe and do. If either message can bring salvation then what you are claiming is a distinction without a difference.

As for me I take what Paul said to heart when he wrote to the Galatians that “I am astonished that you are so quickly DESERTING THE ONE who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a DIFFERENT gospel”. [Galatians 1:6]
The word "different" is ETEROS which means ANOTHER (of a fundamentally different KIND). What these false teachers were spreading was not like traditional legalistic Judaeism which would have been ALLOS (one that, while not the truth, RESEMBLED it but only in some superficial ways). Despite similarities one of these two messages ended up leading people away from Christ and from the message that had been taught by Jesus and the Apostles. Paul summarizes saying that this OTHER "message" is, in fact NO GOSPEL AT ALL. Therefore, he was not positing TWO gospels. He was disposing of one and identifying the other as only one

I have stated the difference many times throughout this thread, so, yes, I have pointed these differences out many times, but will do so again:

Peter stated, as an element for salvation in Acts 2, that Israel MUST be water baptized unto the remission of sins, for without the remission of sins, how could one be saved?

Paul, in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 stated faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the means unto salvation, without any mention whatsoever for the requirement for water baptism. Some make Paul out to be so broken in his ability to serve Christ that he left that out on the basis of summarizing, which is utterly absurd. That is an injection into scripture of the same type of tricks we see coming from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, which these same people would never countenance from those cultic people, and yet turn right around and try the same tricks in defense of their false teaching pastor's lies and false teachings from their pulpits.

Hope this helps you to see the hypocrisy in singular gospel claims and the tactics of cults used to defend those false beliefs.

MM

 

[lrs68]

Do you not see a problem with what you're proposing here? To say that one leaves out any eternally important element(s) for salvation, that is an accusation against Paul for the sin of omission. Why would he ever have left out anything, in your thinking, that has to do with salvation?

Peter clearly stated that water baptism was unto the remission of sins. If that were still valid under the Gospel of Grace, why would Paul ever leave something like that out if it were the means for remission of sins?

Please give this more thought and then let me know what you glean from these questions in relation to the text.

MM

I didn't realize I was making remarks against Paul but I assumed I was talking about how people who read Paul chooses to interpret his Letters.

 

[Musicmaster]

I didn't realize I was making remarks against Paul but I assumed I was talking about how people who read Paul chooses to interpret his Letters.

Nor did I state that you were speaking against Paul. To be clear, you stated that some places dealing with salvation stated more details, which is to say in the mind of a reasonable reader, some writers in some places left out critical details that have eternal ramifications if not followed, nor added to, nor taken away from. Do you see the problem now?

You see, some have told me that Paul left out the requirement for water baptism in 1 Cor. 15: 1-4 because he was merely "summarizing," or as you stated, left out some details...as if stating the alleged requirement for water baptism were left out for the sake of not stating details...

No. That's the kind of reasoning that makes Paul out to be a blundering fool to leave out something of critical importance were it actually true that baptism were indeed the means by which sins are today remitted. I would hope that most of us here know that such is not true, and yet some argue that it is, with Paul didn't have the strength to write the five or so extra words to include baptism as a part of the defining parameters for salvation under the Gospel of Grace.

Paul left nothing out, he did not summarize and he did not leave out details. Some point at Peter and James as evidence for the lack of what they consider to be elements for salvation, and that simply is an argument from silence. The lack of credibility in that weak and baseless argument ends up being an indictment against Paul whom they have never met.

Do you now see the issue here?

MM