government theorizes and conspires on how to infiltrate conspiracy theory chats

[zone]

Conspiracy Theories and government infiltration

Sunstein co-authored a 2008 paper with Adrian Vermeule, titled "Conspiracy Theories," dealing with the risks and possible government responses to false conspiracy theories resulting from "cascades" of faulty information within groups that may ultimately lead to violence.

In this article they wrote, "The existence of both domestic and foreign conspiracy theories, we suggest, is no trivial matter, posing real risks to the government’s antiterrorism policies, whatever the latter may be."

They go on to propose that, "the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups",[28] where they suggest, among other tactics, "Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."[28]

They refer, several times, to groups that promote the view that the US Government was responsible or complicit in the September 11 attacks as "extremist groups." They also suggest responses: "We can readily imagine a series of possible responses.

(1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing.

(2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories."

Cass Sunstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


......


Conspiracy Theories

Cass R. Sunstein
Harvard Law School

Adrian Vermeule
Harvard Law School

January 15, 2008

Abstract:
Many millions of people hold conspiracy theories; they believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice or some terrible event. A recent example is the belief, widespread in some parts of the world, that the attacks of 9/11 were carried out not by Al Qaeda, but by Israel or the United States.

The first challenge is to understand the mechanisms by which conspiracy theories prosper; the second challenge is to understand how such theories might be undermined.

Conspiracy Theories by Cass R. Sunstein, Adrian Vermeule :: SSRN



um.....is the following a conspiracy?



They go on to propose that, "the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups",[28] where they suggest, among other tactics, "Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."[28]


http://christianchat.com/christian-...s-will-push-israel-security-council-seat.html < click

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

sunstein's wife subscribes to a number of conspiracy theories...maybe he married her for the 'cognitive infiltration'...

 

[Angela53510]

So are you saying that someone in the group MIGHT be an infiltrator?????

Maybe we could start hypothesizing who might be the evil gov't agent?

And what if we are not living in America?

Mind you, we might be the first suspects!!

 

[1still_waters]

So are you saying that someone in the group MIGHT be an infiltrator?????

Maybe we could start hypothesizing who might be the evil gov't agent?

And what if we are not living in America?

Mind you, we might be the first suspects!!

Word on teh streeht iz that i'm controlled by a few..

but shhhh.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

So are you saying that someone in the group MIGHT be an infiltrator?????

Maybe we could start hypothesizing who might be the evil gov't agent?

we could also hypothesize which of the people who question harebrained theologies are jezebel spirits...

 

[zone]

sunstein's wife subscribes to a number of conspiracy theories...maybe he married her for the 'cognitive infiltration'...

why is she in power rachel?
and why is cass sunstein in power?

why are the NEOCONS dictating american policy?

do you care?

 

[jimmydiggs]

I like to know who the enemies of God are, and I tend to find that one out pretty quickly. There are many on CC. Can't infiltrate that so easily.

 

[leonardronaldo]

I like to know who the enemies of God are, and I tend to find that one out pretty quickly. There are many on CC. Can't infiltrate that so easily.

did you see the request by al-qaeda for iran to stop the conspiracy theory on 9/11? believe it or not, iran was the one who first made it look like the US responsible for killing its own people. It's in the news. Al qaeda accused Iran of jealousy for unable to attack US as they did. how nice. lol

 

[jimmydiggs]

did you see the request by al-qaeda for iran to stop the conspiracy theory on 9/11? believe it or not, iran was the one who first made it look like the US responsible for killing its own people. It's in the news. Al qaeda accused Iran of jealousy for unable to attack US as they did. how nice. lol

Onion news?

&#39;9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous&#39; - Al Qaeda - YouTube

 

[leonardronaldo]

Onion news?

&#39;9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous&#39; - Al Qaeda - YouTube

yep, you bet

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

why is she in power rachel?
and why is cass sunstein in power?

why are the NEOCONS dictating american policy?

do you care?

samantha power was nominated for the position of UN ambassador because she is one of obama's cronies...

cass sunstein is currently not in any governmental position of power...i guess you missed that fact in your exhaustive 'research'...

and if you think the neoconservatives are dictating american policy then you will have to explain why so many prominent neoconservatives have expressed their displeasure with the obama administration's policies...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i just want to elaborate on something i made a remark about earlier in relation to this...

They go on to propose that, "the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups", where they suggest, among other tactics, "Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."

what we were obviously supposed to conclude from this is that 'government agents and their allies' are -here on this forum- working to 'undermine percolating conspiracy theories'

so let's look closer at what is being insinuated...anyone who raises doubts about the 'factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action' relating to these conspiracy theories are suspected as being 'government agents or their allies'

of course it could -also- be that people are raising doubts about the factual premises and causal logic of conspiracy theories because the assertions of conspiracy theorists really are -extremely dubious-

but we aren't supposed to think about that possibility...only 'government agents or their allies' question conspiracy theories...

this is -exactly- like the notion underlying another thread about 'jezebel spirits'...the insinuation there was that 'anyone who questions my theological authority is by definition a jezebel spirit because they can't possibly have legitimate questions about my unassailable theology'

 

[zone]

i just want to elaborate on something i made a remark about earlier in relation to this...



what we were obviously supposed to conclude from this is that 'government agents and their allies' are -here on this forum- working to 'undermine percolating conspiracy theories'

so let's look closer at what is being insinuated...anyone who raises doubts about the 'factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action' relating to these conspiracy theories are suspected as being 'government agents or their allies'

of course it could -also- be that people are raising doubts about the factual premises and causal logic of conspiracy theories because the assertions of conspiracy theorists really are -extremely dubious-

but we aren't supposed to think about that possibility...only 'government agents or their allies' question conspiracy theories...

this is -exactly- like the notion underlying another thread about 'jezebel spirits'...the insinuation there was that 'anyone who questions my theological authority is by definition a jezebel spirit because they can't possibly have legitimate questions about my unassailable theology'

that part was a joke rachel.

that was obvious. it was actually aimed at Still.

but you can flog it all you want.

you deny reality anyhow, so play away

 

[zone]

samantha power was nominated for the position of UN ambassador because she is one of obama's cronies...

cass sunstein is currently not in any governmental position of power...i guess you missed that fact in your exhaustive 'research'...

and if you think the neoconservatives are dictating american policy then you will have to explain why so many prominent neoconservatives have expressed their displeasure with the obama administration's policies...

nah..i leave you in your beliefs....we're worlds apart. i'm okay with that.

please, though, if you don't mind...unless you have some over-riding reason to focus on what i'm doing....why bother?
you're party-line, i question everything.

okay?
let's leave it at that.

 

[Praus]

why are the NEOCONS dictating american policy?

do you care?

Lam 1:16 For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: my children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed.

 

[Ritter]

and if you think the neoconservatives are dictating american policy then you will have to explain why so many prominent neoconservatives have expressed their displeasure with the obama administration's policies...

Both groups in question are Wilsonian in their worldview concerning foreign policy. They voice disagreements because one side things it can do better than the other at playing the same game.

Sane people know the game and the presuppositions behind the game are the problem.

I likely disagree with Zone to the extent they are connected. I don't think they are guided by the same hands. Well, living hands with political and monetary capital at any rate.

But the dead hands that dictated policies of yore and wrote philosophies of policies. Well that's a horse of a different color.

 

[Stephen63]

i just want to elaborate on something i made a remark about earlier in relation to this...



what we were obviously supposed to conclude from this is that 'government agents and their allies' are -here on this forum- working to 'undermine percolating conspiracy theories'

so let's look closer at what is being insinuated...anyone who raises doubts about the 'factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action' relating to these conspiracy theories are suspected as being 'government agents or their allies'

of course it could -also- be that people are raising doubts about the factual premises and causal logic of conspiracy theories because the assertions of conspiracy theorists really are -extremely dubious-

but we aren't supposed to think about that possibility...only 'government agents or their allies' question conspiracy theories...

this is -exactly- like the notion underlying another thread about 'jezebel spirits'...the insinuation there was that 'anyone who questions my theological authority is by definition a jezebel spirit because they can't possibly have legitimate questions about my unassailable theology'

I am in total agreement what you said here. However, there are possibilities of infiltrations on this site. Some could even claim that disinformation is being fed to us in the bible study forum to promote unbelief in the full new covenant teachings, making the Word of God of none effect. Just something to think about...........

 

[Stephen63]

I guess nobody wants to touch that.........speaks for itself.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

I guess nobody wants to touch that.........speaks for itself.

I agree that it is possible (and probably likely), that many of the new cults are part of a conspiracy, deliberately set up to deceive people (I'm sure some of these would have interesting sources of funding).

But if anyone claims that salvation through Christ is a conspiracy (which is what the Pharisees actually claim with their disciples stealing the body heresy), its pretty hard to fake one's own death in the midst of one's enemies as prophesied hundreds and even thousands of years prior, after having predicted it one's self, and then rise again from the dead on the 3rd day, despite one's enemies having done all they could to prevent it.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Today, I was having a read through the article from an ex-shill again. I believe it may have been posted on this site, but this thread is probably a more appropriate place for it.

Although the authenticity of the article can't be verified, from my own experience, this is exactly how shills work. I have quoted below what I found to be the most interesting paragraphs.

"This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things."

"The site-specific info in the second binder included a brief history each site, including recent flame-wars, as well as info on what to avoid on each site so as not to get banned. It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters."

“Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.” Each popular poster was classified as “hostile,” “friendly,” or “indifferent” to my goal. We were supposed to cultivate friendship with the friendly posters as well as the mods (basically, by brownnosing and sucking up), and there were even notes on strategies for dealing with specific hostile posters."

"A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie and claim a poster said something or did something “in another thread” they really hadn’t said or done"

"Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed. Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me)."

"Shills exist. They are real. They walk among you, and they pay special attention to your popular gold-bordered WATS posters."

I Was a Paid Internet Shill (Ex Troll Speaks Out)

I Was a Paid Internet Shill (Ex Troll Speaks Out)
I am writing here to come out of the closet as a paid shill. For a little over six months, I was paid to spread disinformation and argue political points on the Internet. This site, ATS, was NOT one that I was assigned to post on, although other people in the same organization were paid to be here, and I assume they still walk among you. But more on this later.

I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore. If this confession triggers some kind of retribution against me, so be it. Part of being a real man in this world is having real values that you stand up for, no matter what the consequences.

My story begins in early 2011. I had been out of work for almost a year after losing my last job in tech support. Increasingly desperate and despondent, I jumped at the chance when a former co-worker called me up and said she had a possible lead for me. “It is an unusual job, and one that requires secrecy. But the pay is good. And I know you are a good writer, so its something you are suited for.” (Writing has always been a hobby for me). She gave me only a phone-number and an address, in one of the seedier parts of San Francisco, where I live. intrigued, I asked her for the company’s URL and some more info. She laughed. “They don’t have a website. Or even a name. You’ll see. Just tell them I referred you.” Yes, it sounded suspicious, but long-term joblessness breeds desperation, and desperation has a funny way of overlooking the suspicious when it comes to putting food on the table.

The next day, I arrived at the address – the third floor in a crumbling building. The appearance of the place did not inspire confidence. After walking down a long, filthy linoleum-covered corridor lit by dimly-flickering halogen, I came to the entrance of the office itself: a crudely battered metal door with a sign that said “United Amalgamated Industries, Inc.” I later learned that this “company” changed its name almost monthly, always using bland names like that which gave no strong impression of what the company actually does. Not too hopeful, I went inside. The interior was equally shabby. There were a few long tables with folding chairs, at which about a dozen people were tapping away on old, beat-up computers. There were no decorations or ornaments of any type: not even the standard-issue office fica trees or plastic ferns. What a dump. Well, beggars can’t be choosers.

The manager, a balding man in his late forties, rose from the only stand-alone desk in the room and came forward with an easy smile. “You must be Chris. Yvette [my ex-co-worker] told me you’d be coming.” [Not our real names]. “Welcome. Let me tell you a little about what we do.” No interview, nothing. I later learned they took people based solely on referral, and that the people making the referrals, like my ex-colleague Yvette, were trained to pick out candidates based on several factors including ability to keep one’s mouth shut, basic writing skills, and desperation for work.

We sat down at his desk and he began by asking me a few questions about myself and my background, including my political views (which were basically non-existent). Then he began to explain the job. “We work on influencing people’s opinions here,” is how he described it. The company’s clients paid them to post on Internet message boards and popular chartrooms, as well as in gaming forums and social networks like Facebook and MySpace. Who were these clients? “Oh, various people,” he said vaguely. “Sometimes private companies, sometimes political groups.” Satisfied that my political views were not strong, he said I would beassigned to political work. “The best people for this type of job are people like you, without strong views,” he said with a laugh. “It might seem counterintuitive, but actually we’ve found that to be the case.” Well, OK. Fine. As long as it comes with a steady paycheck, I’d believe whatever they wanted me to believe, as the guy in Ghostbusters said.

After discussing pay (which was much better than I’d hoped) and a few other details, he then went over the need for absolute privacy and secrecy. “You can’t tell anyone what we do here. Not your wife, not your dog.” (I have neither, as it happens.) “We’ll give you a cover story and even a phone number and a fake website you can use. You will have to tell people you are a consultant. Since your background is in tech support, that will be your cover job. Is this going to be a problem for you?” Iassured him it would not. “Well, OK. Shall we get started?”

“Right now?” I asked, a bit taken aback.

“No time like the present!” he said with a hearty laugh.

The rest of the day was taken up with training. Another staff member, a no-nonsense woman in her thirties, was to be my trainer, and training would only last two days. “You seem like a bright guy, you’ll get the hang of it pretty fast, I think,” she said. And indeed, the job was easier than I’d imagined. My task was simple: I would beassigned to four different websites, with the goal of entering certain discussions and promoting a certain view. I learned later that some of the personnel wereassigned to internet message boards (like me), while others worked on Facebook or chatrooms. It seems these three types of media each have different strategy for shilling, and each shill concentrates on one of the three in particular.

My task? “To support Israel and counter anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic posters.” Fine with me. I had no opinions one way or another about Israel, and who likes anti-Semites and Nazis? Not me, anyway. But I didn’t know too much about the topic. “That’s OK,” she said. “You’ll pick it up as you go along. For the most part, at first, you will be doing what we call “meme-patrol.” This is pretty easy. Later if you show promise, we’ll train you for more complex arguments, where more in-depth knowledge is necessary.”

She handed me two binders with sheets enclosed in limp plastic. The first was labeled simply “Israel” in magic-marker on the cover, and it had two sections .The first section contained basic background info on the topic. I would have to read and memorize some of this, as time went on. It had internet links for further reading, essays and talking points, and excerpts from some history books. The second, and larger, section was called “Strat” (short for “strategy”) with long lists of “dialogue pairs.” These were specific responses to specific postings. If a poster wrote something close to “X,” we were supposed to respond with something close to “Y.” “You have to mix it up a bit, though,” said my trainer. “Otherwise it gets too obvious. Learn to use a thesaurus.” This section also contained a number of hints for de-railing conversations that went too far away from what we were attempting. These strategies included various forms of personal attacks, complaining to the forum moderators, smearing the characters of our opponents, using images and icons effectively, and even dragging the tone of the conversation down with sexual innuendo, links to pornography, or other such things. “Sometimes we have to fight dirty,” or trainer told us. “Our opponents don’t hesitate to, so we can’t either.”

The second binder was smaller, and it contained information specific to the web sites I would be assigned to. The sites I would work were: Godlike Productions, Lunatic Outpost, CNN news, Yahoo News, and a handful of smaller sites that rotated depending on need. As stated, I was NOT assigned to work ATS (although others in my group were), which is part of the reason I am posting this here, rather than elsewhere. I wanted to post this on Godlike Productions at first, but they have banned me from even viewing that site for some reason (perhaps they are onto me?). But if somebody connected with this site can get the message to them, I think they should know about it, because that was the site I spent a good 70% of my time working on.

The site-specific info in the second binder included a brief history each site, including recent flame-wars, as well as info on what to avoid on each site so as not to get banned. It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.” Each popular poster was classified as “hostile,” “friendly,” or “indifferent” to my goal. We were supposed to cultivate friendship with the friendly posters as well as the mods (basically, by brownnosing and sucking up), and there were even notes on strategies for dealing with specific hostile posters. The info was pretty detailed, but not perfect in every case. “If you can convert one of the hostile posters from the enemy side to our side, you get a nice bonus. But this doesn’t happen too often, sadly. So mostly you’ll be attacking them and trying to smear them.”

At first, like I said, my job was “meme-patrol.” This was pretty simple and repetitive; it involved countering memes and introducing new memes, and didn’t demand much in-depth knowledge of the subject. Mostly just repetitive posting based on the dialogue pairs in the “Strat” section of the first binder. A lot of my job was de-railing and spamming threads that didn’t go our way, or making accusations of racism and anti-Semitism. Sometimes I had to simply lie and claim a poster said something or did something “in another thread” they really hadn’t said or done I felt bad about this…but in the end I felt worse about the possibility of losing the first job I’d been able to get since losing my “real” job.

The funny thing was, although I started the job with no strong opinions or political views, after a few weeks of this I became very emotionally wedded to the pro-Israel ideas I was pushing. There must be some psychological factor at work…a good salesman learns to honestly love the products he’s selling, I guess. It wasn’t long before my responses became fiery and passionate, and I began to learn more about the topic on my own. “This is a good sign,” my trainer told me. “It means you are ready for the next step: complex debate.”

The “complex debate” part of the job involved a fair amount of additional training, including memorizing more specific information about the specific posters (friendly and hostile) I’d be sparring with. Here, too, there were scripts and suggested lines of argument, but we were given more freedom. There were a lot of details to this more advanced stage of the job – everything from how to select the right avatar to how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web). Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed. Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me).

I was also given the job of tying to find new recruits, people “like me” who had the personality type, ability to keep a secret, basic writing/thinking skills, and desperation necessary to sign on a shill. I was less successful at this part of the job, though, and I couldn’t find another in the time I was there.

After a while of doing this, I started to feel bad. Not because of the views I was pushing (as I said, I was first apolitical, then pro-Israel), but because of the dishonesty involved. If my arguments were so correct, I wondered, why did we have to do this in the first place? Shouldn’t truth propagate itself naturally, rather than through, well…propaganda? And who was behind this whole operation, anyway? Who was signing my paychecks? The stress of lying to my parents and friends about being a “consultant” was also getting to me. Finally, I said enough was enough. I quit in September 2011. Since then I’ve been working a series of unglamorous temp office jobs for lower pay. But at least I’m not making my living lying and heckling people who come online to express their views and exercise freedom of speech.

A few days ago I happened to be in the same neighborhood and on a whim thought I’d check out the old office. It turns out the operation is gone, having moved on. This, too, I understood, is part of their strategy: Don’t stay in the same place for too long, don’t keep the same name too long, move on after half a year or so. Keeping a low profile, finding new employees through word of mouth: All this is part of the shill way of life. But it is a deceptive way of life, and no matter how noble the goals (I remain pro-Israel, by the way), these sleazy means cannot be justified by the end.

This is my confession. I haven’t made up my mind yet about whether I want to talk more about this, so if I don’t respond to this thread, don’t be angry. But I think you should know: Shills exist. They are real. They walk among you, and they pay special attention to your popular gold-bordered WATS posters. You should be aware of this. What you choose to do with this awareness is up to you.

Yours, ExShill