Ham saw his father naked, why Noah cursed Canaan (Son of Ham) instead of Ham?

[ewq1938]

It is not written that Canaan committed incestuous.

It is written that Ham who committed the incestuous.

No, it is not. Ham isn't even blamed or cursed for any crime/sin.

When Ham saw the nakedness of Noah (his father).

That isn't a sdin. Uncovering it is the sin.

GENESIS 9:22

22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Since God is Speaking in Parable. The revelation of God, Ham slept with his mother.

No, it was Canaan. Only Canaan is punished/cursed.

LEVITICUS 18:6-7

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Perhaps you are confuse. Ham is the Son of Noah and not Canaan is the Son of Noah.

No, you are confused. The Hebrew word for son can also mean grandson. I have studied this in the Hebrew language, not only in English.

 

[ewq1938]

Why should Canaan's sin be hidden in a parable and not Reuben's.

It's not hidden in parable, but it a well known Hebrew figure of speech Hebrew speaking people would know and recognize.

 

[Godsgood]

No, it is not. Ham isn't even blamed or cursed for any crime/sin.





That isn't a sdin. Uncovering it is the sin.





No, it was Canaan. Only Canaan is punished/cursed.







No, you are confused. The Hebrew word for son can also mean grandson. I have studied this in the Hebrew language, not only in English.

If the Son means Grandson in Hebrew. How come Jesus Christ never written he is the Grandson of God since the Son and Grandson is just the same?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

It's not hidden in parable, but it a well known Hebrew figure of speech Hebrew speaking people would know and recognize.

What in that passage is a figure of speech?

I wish the curse was clearer to understand. Why did Canaan end up being cursed instead of Canaan???

Was Canaan a little kid and was with Ham when this happened??? Or...

Was Canaan already an adult and was with Ham when this happened???

I also don't understand about the mother thing? Why didn't the Bible just say so? The Bible had been straight forward all that time, and suddenly gets cryptic with this incident???

I hope someone posts a clear answer to any or all questions here because this thread has so gotten so confusing!

 

[Godsgood]

What in that passage is a figure of speech?

I wish the curse was clearer to understand. Why did Canaan end up being cursed instead of Canaan???

Was Canaan a little kid and was with Ham when this happened??? Or...

Was Canaan already an adult and was with Ham when this happened???

I also don't understand about the mother thing? Why didn't the Bible just say so? The Bible had been straight forward all that time, and suddenly gets cryptic with this incident???

I hope someone posts a clear answer to any or all questions here because this thread has so gotten so confusing!

When God the father revealed the meaning of what Ham did in Genesis 9:22.
The meaning was Ham slept with his mother Leviticus 18:6-7

Canaan is the Son of Ham and wife of Noah.
Canaan is the fruit of Ham & his Mother in cheating.

 

[ewq1938]

What in that passage is a figure of speech?

Uncovering your father's nakedness.

I also don't understand about the mother thing? Why didn't the Bible just say so? The Bible had been straight forward all that time, and suddenly gets cryptic with this incident???

Sometimes the bible is straightforward, sometimes it is not.

 

[Godsgood]

Uncovering your father's nakedness.






Sometimes the bible is straightforward, sometimes it is not.

It is God the Father who will decide.

As far as we read the Holy Bible. God the Father is Speaking in Parables (Psalms 78:2 & Ezekiel 20:49).

And the reason why God the Father is Speaking and Parables as well as Our Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 4:34) is this.
MARK 4:12
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

 

[Dino246]

It is God the Father who will decide.

As far as we read the Holy Bible. God the Father is Speaking in Parables (Psalms 78:2 & Ezekiel 20:49).

And the reason why God the Father is Speaking and Parables as well as Our Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 4:34) is this.
MARK 4:12
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Have you not read the Scripture which says this:

Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

When God the father revealed the meaning of what Ham did in Genesis 9:22.
The meaning was Ham slept with his mother Leviticus 18:6-7

Canaan is the Son of Ham and wife of Noah.
Canaan is the fruit of Ham & his Mother in cheating.

Wouldn't that make Canaan the brother as well as nephew to Shem and Japheth?

I'll file this away in my mind for consideration.

Meanwhile, I'll go with Occam's Razor in that the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred. Right now I'm just going to go with the plain reading of Genesis 9 and see it as Ham literally seeing his father, Noah, drunk and naked and gossiped about what he saw to his brothers, who then covered their father without looking.

That shows that Ham had a disrespectful streak and this could have influenced Canaan who turned out to be worse than his father.

 

[ewq1938]

Wouldn't that make Canaan the brother as well as nephew to Shem and Japheth?

I'll file this away in my mind for consideration.

Meanwhile, I'll go with Occam's Razor in that the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred. Right now I'm just going to go with the plain reading of Genesis 9 and see it as Ham literally seeing his father, Noah, drunk and naked and gossiped about what he saw to his brothers, who then covered their father without looking.

That shows that Ham had a disrespectful streak and this could have influenced Canaan who turned out to be worse than his father.

Makes zero sense that Noah cursed Canaan if Canaan hadn't done anything. The razor actually points to Canaan as the only guilt party.

Ham would have been distraught and needed to seek help from his brothers in this matter, also a better way if we go by the logic of that razor rather than think gossip was at play.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Makes zero sense that Noah cursed Canaan if Canaan hadn't done anything. The razor actually points to Canaan as the only guilt party.

Ham would have been distraught and needed to seek help from his brothers in this matter, also a better way if we go by the logic of that razor rather than think gossip was at play.

You can believe that if you want to!

 

[Godsgood]

Have you not read the Scripture which says this:

Matthew 13:10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Since the words of Our Lord Jesus never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

Our Lord Jesus was Talking to the People in Parables (Matthew 13:10)

The Words of God and the Holy Bible is representing By Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:13 & Hebrews 10:7)

This is the proof that The words of God in the Holy Bible are in Parables.

 

[Dino246]

Since the words of Our Lord Jesus never pass away (Matthew 24:35).

Our Lord Jesus was Talking to the People in Parables (Matthew 13:10)

The Words of God and the Holy Bible is representing By Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:13 & Hebrews 10:7)

This is the proof that The words of God in the Holy Bible are in Parables.

Cults are born from such folly.

 

[Godsgood]

Cults are born from such folly.

The Truth in the Words of God is not acceptable to the people who are leaning in their own understanding to the word (Provers 3:5).

Even in the times of Our Lord Jesus being the Truth (John 14:6) was accused by the Jews having devils in him.
JOHN 10:20
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

 

[Dino246]

The Truth in the Words of God is not acceptable to the people who are leaning in their own understanding to the word (Provers 3:5).

Even in the times of Our Lord Jesus being the Truth (John 14:6) was accused by the Jews having devils in him.
JOHN 10:20
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

Irrelevant.

 

[Godsgood]

Irrelevant.

The Jews hated Jesus not personally but hated him with the words of Truth he shared to them.
Since Jesus is the word of God (Revelation 19:13). And Jesus is the Truth in the Words of God (John 14:6)
To hate the Truth in the words of God is to hate Jesus. To hate Jesus is to hate God the Father.

This is Jesus said to his Chosen so that they will not get surprised when it happen.
JOHN 15:21-23
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

 

[Dino246]

The Jews hated Jesus not personally but hated him with the words of Truth he shared to them.
Since Jesus is the word of God (Revelation 19:13). And Jesus is the Truth in the Words of God (John 14:6)
To hate the Truth in the words of God is to hate Jesus. To hate Jesus is to hate God the Father.

This is Jesus said to his Chosen so that they will not get surprised when it happen.
JOHN 15:21-23
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

Also irrelevant.

 

[Godsgood]

God gave his words in the Holy Bible to send us a message.

When it comes in the words of God or in Salvation.
In the Old Testament, the Prophets were asking to God the Father and not to the people.

In the New Testament, the Apostles and Disciples of Our Lord Jesus were asking to him and not to the People.

In our Generation today and the next Generations to come
God the Father still wants the People to ask to God and not to the People.

 

[Sanders]

I have a different view of this incidence.

It was Noah that knew what happened to him after he woke up from his drunkenness.

24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

I believe it was an immoral act between the grandson Cannan and Noah

Very interesting but really sounds logical. Never heard anyone say it though. Thank you.