Pretty horrified but yep, can see the possibility. Still have so much to learn and the Bible doesn't hold its punches, that's for sure.
Ham saw his father naked, why Noah cursed Canaan (Son of Ham) instead of Ham?
- Thread starter Godsgood
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It is unfair to Canaan if he cursed by Noah because Canaan has nothing to do on what his father (Ham) and grand mother did.
But what Noah did when he cursed Canaan is rightful to God.
What about Ezekiel 18:20?
Did you know the cities that were destroyed by the angels in the time of Abraham were from the generational line of Noah's grandson Cannan?
15 Canaan was the father of
Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites.
Later the Canaanite clans scattered 19 and the borders of Canaan reached from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, as far as Lasha.
20 These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.
Time these cities were destroyed was year 2122 from creation.
15 Canaan was the father of
Sidon his firstborn, and of the Hittites, 16 Jebusites, Amorites, Girgashites, 17 Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, 18 Arvadites, Zemarites and Hamathites.
Later the Canaanite clans scattered 19 and the borders of Canaan reached from Sidon toward Gerar as far as Gaza, and then toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, as far as Lasha.
20 These are the sons of Ham by their clans and languages, in their territories and nations.
Time these cities were destroyed was year 2122 from creation.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them. There was a second influx of the fallen angels AFTER Noah's flood.
.
● Gen 9:24-25a . .When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his
youngest son had done to him, he said: Cursed be Canaan;
I'd imagine that Canaan objected very strongly upon hearing a curse
pronounced upon himself when it was not him but his dad who embarrassed
grandpa. What did Canaan do to deserve a curse? Not a thing. Then why did
Noah curse Ham's son instead of cursing Ham? The answer to that is located
in the passage below:
"Jehovah, Jehovah: a God compassionate and gracious, slow to anger,
abounding in kindness and faithfulness; extending kindness to the
thousandth generation-- forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; yet He
does not remit all punishment; but visits the iniquity of parents upon
children and children's children unto the third and fourth generation." (Ex
34:6-7)
In other words: descendants sometimes become collateral damage when
God goes after their ancestors. For example: no doubt quite a few innocent
children drowned in the Flood event due to their parents' wickedness. The
same happened to the children in Sodom and Gomorrah. And during Moses'
face-off with Pharaoh, God moved against everything that pertained to the
man; including, but not limited to, his economy, his land, his livestock, his
citizens, his citizens' children, and his own children. It's a very disturbing
biblical fact of life that sometimes God gets back at parents by going after
things that pertain to them.
For example; God took the life of David's innocent little baby boy to get back
at his father for embarrassing Yahweh.
Another example is located in the 16th chapter of Numbers where not just
the rebels were punished; but their entire families and all their belongings
were swallowed by a fissure that God opened in the ground beneath their
feet.
A close call is recorded in the book of Jonah. Had not the adults in Ninevah
changed their ways, something like 120,000 little children would have
perished; not to mention all the cattle. According to Jonah 4:11, taking out
children and dumb animals is not something that God enjoys. But there is a
mysterious element to absolute justice that apparently compels Him to come
down on people like that.
* This leads me to suspect that God's chosen people weren't caught up in
the Holocaust as retribution for their own sins; rather; as retribution for the
sins of their past generations; which tells me that the status of God's chosen
people in our time shouldn't be assumed permanent; and that their special
identification with God isn't something to be proud of; rather; something to
be afraid of because moths that fly too close to the flame risk getting their
wings burned seeing as how the covenant's God doesn't practice favoritism.
"You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; therefore, I will
punish you for all your iniquities." (Amos 3:2)
In other words: among the various human communities on earth; Moses'
people have the least excuse for their impieties due to their privileged
association with God and their ready access to a knowledge of His thoughts.
_
● Gen 9:24-25a . .When Noah woke up from his wine and learned what his
youngest son had done to him, he said: Cursed be Canaan;
I'd imagine that Canaan objected very strongly upon hearing a curse
pronounced upon himself when it was not him but his dad who embarrassed
grandpa. What did Canaan do to deserve a curse? Not a thing. Then why did
Noah curse Ham's son instead of cursing Ham? The answer to that is located
in the passage below:
"Jehovah, Jehovah: a God compassionate and gracious, slow to anger,
abounding in kindness and faithfulness; extending kindness to the
thousandth generation-- forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; yet He
does not remit all punishment; but visits the iniquity of parents upon
children and children's children unto the third and fourth generation." (Ex
34:6-7)
In other words: descendants sometimes become collateral damage when
God goes after their ancestors. For example: no doubt quite a few innocent
children drowned in the Flood event due to their parents' wickedness. The
same happened to the children in Sodom and Gomorrah. And during Moses'
face-off with Pharaoh, God moved against everything that pertained to the
man; including, but not limited to, his economy, his land, his livestock, his
citizens, his citizens' children, and his own children. It's a very disturbing
biblical fact of life that sometimes God gets back at parents by going after
things that pertain to them.
For example; God took the life of David's innocent little baby boy to get back
at his father for embarrassing Yahweh.
Another example is located in the 16th chapter of Numbers where not just
the rebels were punished; but their entire families and all their belongings
were swallowed by a fissure that God opened in the ground beneath their
feet.
A close call is recorded in the book of Jonah. Had not the adults in Ninevah
changed their ways, something like 120,000 little children would have
perished; not to mention all the cattle. According to Jonah 4:11, taking out
children and dumb animals is not something that God enjoys. But there is a
mysterious element to absolute justice that apparently compels Him to come
down on people like that.
* This leads me to suspect that God's chosen people weren't caught up in
the Holocaust as retribution for their own sins; rather; as retribution for the
sins of their past generations; which tells me that the status of God's chosen
people in our time shouldn't be assumed permanent; and that their special
identification with God isn't something to be proud of; rather; something to
be afraid of because moths that fly too close to the flame risk getting their
wings burned seeing as how the covenant's God doesn't practice favoritism.
"You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; therefore, I will
punish you for all your iniquities." (Amos 3:2)
In other words: among the various human communities on earth; Moses'
people have the least excuse for their impieties due to their privileged
association with God and their ready access to a knowledge of His thoughts.
_
Follow up from posts 19 & 23. Goes to show how a curse follows the generational line thru Cannan
D
Daisy2
Guest
Omegatime,
It is fair; God does everything for a reason. Sometimes, trying to look at it from our fathers' perspective helps. Canaan is cursed. Why do you think God did that? Was it only for Ham, or do you think there might be more than just one reason? It's evident that Canaan was evil in God's sight.
“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear, you Israelites: Is my way unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust? Ezekiel 18:25
Deuteronomy 32:4 states, "He is the Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are just. A God of faithfulness without injustice, righteous and upright is He"
Well; I realize it is wrong of people to accuse God of unfairness, but I think we have to
concur it's a perfectly natural response because when Adam tasted the forbidden fruit;
he became a tin God.
● Gen 3:22 . . And the Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.
So from thence Adam's own better judgement became his guiding light; and the two
guiding lights have been locking horns, bumping heads, and chafing each other to this
very day.
_
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If we gonna take and understand the story in letter or in physical way, God is unfair.
Because, Ham who had sins and he must be the one to be cursed and not Canaan.
Perhaps if we take this in Spiritual Way as Paul mentioned God will reveal why Noah Cursed Canaan instead of Ham..
2CORINTHIANS 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
ROMANS 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
And what our Lord Jesus said:
JOHN 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
WHO IS CANAAN IN THE EYES OF GOD?
Canaan was probably not even born yet...
Genesis 10:1
This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood.Genesis 10:6
The sons of Ham: Cush, Egypt, Put and Canaan.
D
Daisy2
Guest
It's likely people around the Middle East and Africa, but who knows? It's been such a long time since then. It shouldn't matter in our Daily lives. Plus, since your a Christian, you've got God as your father Psalms 1 promises that all we do will prosper. Blessed is the God of Shem. This tells us that Canaanites didn't pray to our Father but we.
Canaan was Ham's legacy (firstborn)
And Ham was the one cursing Canaan by instilling his attitudes and morality into Canaan. Noah just spoke truth....it wasn't a reverse blessing or a removal of blessings. It was simply the truth. If Ham had used even a modicum of mercy, forgiveness, and grace towards his father this would not be the result.
This is an example that God is Speaking in Parables (Psalms 78:2 & Ezekiel 20:49).
Although the Parable is very clear in Man's understanding it requires God's revelation before we able to understand.
Naked means Without wearing Clothes.
GOD IS SPEAKING IN PARABLES------------------------------------------ GOD'S REVELATION IN THE PARABLE
GEN 9:22 LEVITICUS 18:7
Saw the nakedness of his Father ------------MEANS ------------------ Having Sexual relations with your Mother
Canaan is the Son of Ham --------------------- MEANS ----------------- ??????????????????????????????????????????
WHO IS CANAAN IN THE EYES OF GOD?
Although the Parable is very clear in Man's understanding it requires God's revelation before we able to understand.
Naked means Without wearing Clothes.
GOD IS SPEAKING IN PARABLES------------------------------------------ GOD'S REVELATION IN THE PARABLE
GEN 9:22 LEVITICUS 18:7
Saw the nakedness of his Father ------------MEANS ------------------ Having Sexual relations with your Mother
Canaan is the Son of Ham --------------------- MEANS ----------------- ??????????????????????????????????????????
WHO IS CANAAN IN THE EYES OF GOD?
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How about the revelation of God for Canaan as the Son of Ham?
In Man's understanding, it is very clear that Canaan is a biological Son of Ham.
In God's Revelation, Canaan is the Soul of Ham.
DEUTORONOMY 13:6
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Because....it's symbolic.
When on a holy journey or task under the Old Covenant you were to remain celebate even when rightfully married.
Canaan was born on the Ark. 8 went on the Ark but 9 came off.
IOW Ham thought Canaan to be the "Seed of the Woman"....but instead he was the result of breaking a vow. I.E. the result of sin.
Ham was angry, disappointed for a lot of reasons....none of which were right.
It's ancient Hebrew literature....lots of symbolism in the old poetry. Every detail is important. Like when the number stated doesn't match the number of items. For example you likely say "the 12 tribes of Israel" because it's always said as a repeat of scriptures. But there never was only 12 tribes. It was always 13. (A case could be made for 14) Joseph was never a tribe. His sons each was a tribe.
When Moses was writing the Tenakh, it would soon replace oral tradition...which was poetic to make it easier to remember. This section in Genesis was no different. Bad poetry in English but great poetry in Hebrew.
Canaan was the youngest son of Ham, but he was already born at the time of his father's indiscretion with Noah. Scripture says that when Noah woke up from his drunken stupor he realized what Ham had done, and it was right then that he cursed Canaan. In relating the story- the text makes it clear multiple times that Ham was the father of Canaan-- not worth mentioning if Canaan had not been born yet.
Ham was the youngest son of Noah, so in retaliation for the incident, Noah cursed the youngest son of Ham.
The nephilim were produced by demons getting inside idolator women and messing with their and their foetus' gene code. Once the genes are in the extant gene pool, even recessive "giantism" genes can activate and produce giants later on. Maybe Noah's or Noah's wife's ancestry contained persons who had recessive mutated giantism genes, and these expressed themselves in later generations. As the percentage of the population without these recessive genes increased fewer giants were produced.
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If Canaan is the Soul of Ham.
I hope God will reveal to us why he cursed the Soul of Ham.
What is the Composition of the Soul?
There's a major sub-plot to the story that I'm surprised no one has mentioned, but 'unsurprisingly' it gets dismissed by the King James crowd. Trust me, I've heard all the arguments about the book of Jasher, but it certainly existed at one time, having been mentioned in the Bible, specifically in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18.
Anyways-- in that book, such as we have it, there is a fascinating back story told. It's beyond fascinating. It's intriguing, because it provides insights that 'make it make sense.' The story we have, as told in Genesis lacks what we might refer to in law enforcement circles as a modus operandi... a reason, or motive for what had to have been a very serious offense, considering the heavy consequence enacted upon Canaan--- the son of the culprit.
And consider that for a second. It's been brought up in this thread, and asked-- 'Why would it be the son who was punished for his dad's incestuous act with the wife of Noah?' Canaan was not 'the fruit' of that indiscretion, but was part of the story as the youngest son of the youngest son (Ham). What was Ham's punishment? Why was the actual sinner not punished for the sin?
The details matter, and they are told in the book of Jasher.
I'll share it, but please spare me the moans and groans about the book itself. I've heard them all.
Anyways-- in that book, such as we have it, there is a fascinating back story told. It's beyond fascinating. It's intriguing, because it provides insights that 'make it make sense.' The story we have, as told in Genesis lacks what we might refer to in law enforcement circles as a modus operandi... a reason, or motive for what had to have been a very serious offense, considering the heavy consequence enacted upon Canaan--- the son of the culprit.
And consider that for a second. It's been brought up in this thread, and asked-- 'Why would it be the son who was punished for his dad's incestuous act with the wife of Noah?' Canaan was not 'the fruit' of that indiscretion, but was part of the story as the youngest son of the youngest son (Ham). What was Ham's punishment? Why was the actual sinner not punished for the sin?
The details matter, and they are told in the book of Jasher.
I'll share it, but please spare me the moans and groans about the book itself. I've heard them all.