Ham saw his father naked, why Noah cursed Canaan (Son of Ham) instead of Ham?

[UnoiAmarah]

Ham had four sons and only the youngest was cursed by Noah

How do you get that Canaan was the youngest son of Ham?

 

[Grace911]

Correct. The trouble is, folks get an idea fixated in their heads, then they go out ‘in search of’ anything that could be construed as supportive of their premise. There’s actually nothing wrong with that, unless your premise is entirely wrong and unless you are ignoring known facts to bolster your premise.

Ham had four sons and only the youngest was cursed by Noah— lacking any scriptural basis for saying so, they conclude that Canaan was “the fruit” of the illicit interaction between Ham and his mom. In other words— they manufacture this element.

And it doesn’t make sense at all because of dna. The giants come from the line of Ham through his wife, not from Ham and his mother.

Why do you suppose that Noah's wife's name is never mentioned? Or perhaps it is? Does the name Gaia mean Mother Earth?

Gen 9:21 And he drankH8354 ofH4480 the wine,H3196 and was drunken;H7937 and he was uncovered H1540 withinH8432 his tent.H168
Gen 9:22 And Ham,H2526 the fatherH1 of Canaan,H3667 sawH7200 (H853) the nakednessH6172 of his father,H1 and toldH5046 his twoH8147 brethrenH251 without.H2351

H1540
גּלה
gâlâh
gaw-law' (pronounced Galah and is also Gaia)
A primitive root; to denude (especially in a disgraceful sense); by implication to exile (captives being usually stripped); figuratively to reveal: - + advertise, appear, bewray, bring, (carry, lead, go) captive (into captivity), depart, disclose, discover, exile, be gone, open, X plainly, publish, remove, reveal, X shamelessly, shew, X surely, tell, uncover.

גּלה = gimel- lamed- hey
gimel = to lift up
lamed = rod, authority, tongue, teaching
hey = reveal, show, behold, grace, mercy, what comes from, spirit

Ham was usurping his father's authority (while he was in the vineyard? while he was away leading all the animals of the ark to their present day locations?) by having sex with his father's wife? We do not know if this was Ham's biological mother or if she was a step-mother.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover H1540: it is thy father's nakedness.

Ever hear the word/name Gaia? Mother Earth? This reference is an abomination to our Creator Yehovah. He did not create Mother Earth. She usurped her authority by unlawful adulterous whoring starting with one of Noah's sons, Ham.

Wife of Nimrod was Semiramis according to Alexander Hislop in the Tale of Two Babylons.

My understanding is that Noah's wife (Gaia/Semiramis) mothered Canann (Ham's son) , and mothered Cush (Canaan's son) and lastly married Nimrod, (Cush's son and great great grandson of Noah). She was a great big whore and from her and Nimrod we get the reincarnation of Nimrod and Semiramis throughout mythology. Mythology is just a way to retell the same story over and over. Mother Mary and the infant Jesus is Semiramis and her son Tammuz born magically after Nimrod was dead. Very interesting read.

 

[Magenta]

The giants come from the line of Ham through his wife, not from Ham and his mother.

Chapter and verse?

 

[Magenta]

Romans 2 verses 1-2 You who pass judgment on another have no excuse. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. And we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

 

[MrE]

How do you get that Canaan was the youngest son of Ham?

Genesis 9 tells the story of Noah getting drunk and being found naked in that state by his son Ham-- who humiliated him in some way. (Jasher tells us, by stealing his special inherited coat- which was passed down through generations).

Gen 9:24 -- The culprit had already been identified as Ham in the text, which goes on to say that when Noah wakes up and discovers his coat is gone>>>>

When Noah awoke from his drunken stupor he learned what his youngest son had done to him.

 

[CommodoreTeach]

But what about this bit?

And it doesn’t make sense at all because of dna. The giants come from the line of Ham through his wife, not from Ham and his mother.

 

[MrE]

But what about this bit?

Numbers 13 tells us that the Israelite spies saw and were fearful of the giant sons of Anak, who in turn were sons of Canaan, son of Ham.

 

[MrE]

Why do you suppose that Noah's wife's name is never mentioned? Or perhaps it is? Does the name Gaia mean Mother Earth?

Gen 9:21 And he drankH8354 ofH4480 the wine,H3196 and was drunken;H7937 and he was uncovered H1540 withinH8432 his tent.H168
Gen 9:22 And Ham,H2526 the fatherH1 of Canaan,H3667 sawH7200 (H853) the nakednessH6172 of his father,H1 and toldH5046 his twoH8147 brethrenH251 without.H2351

I don’t accept the premise.

Scripture has no need to be delicate in the matter. If Ham had been having sex with his biological mom or some never mentioned step-mom you might imagine, it could just say so. The idea that Canaan was the fruit of such a union is completely unfounded.

You’d also have to then presume that the 8 on the ark included this step-mom rather than the wife of Noah who was the biological mother of the three biological sons (Shem, Japeth and Ham).

This below is a whole lot of conjecture without good basis in my opinion.


H1540
גּלה
gâlâh
gaw-law' (pronounced Galah and is also Gaia)
A primitive root; to denude (especially in a disgraceful sense); by implication to exile (captives being usually stripped); figuratively to reveal: - + advertise, appear, bewray, bring, (carry, lead, go) captive (into captivity), depart, disclose, discover, exile, be gone, open, X plainly, publish, remove, reveal, X shamelessly, shew, X surely, tell, uncover.

גּלה = gimel- lamed- hey
gimel = to lift up
lamed = rod, authority, tongue, teaching
hey = reveal, show, behold, grace, mercy, what comes from, spirit

Ham was usurping his father's authority (while he was in the vineyard? while he was away leading all the animals of the ark to their present day locations?) by having sex with his father's wife? We do not know if this was Ham's biological mother or if she was a step-mother.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover H1540: it is thy father's nakedness.

Ever hear the word/name Gaia? Mother Earth? This reference is an abomination to our Creator Yehovah. He did not create Mother Earth. She usurped her authority by unlawful adulterous whoring starting with one of Noah's sons, Ham.

Wife of Nimrod was Semiramis according to Alexander Hislop in the Tale of Two Babylons.

My understanding is that Noah's wife (Gaia/Semiramis) mothered Canann (Ham's son) , and mothered Cush (Canaan's son) and lastly married Nimrod, (Cush's son and great great grandson of Noah). She was a great big whore and from her and Nimrod we get the reincarnation of Nimrod and Semiramis throughout mythology. Mythology is just a way to retell the same story over and over. Mother Mary and the infant Jesus is Semiramis and her son Tammuz born magically after Nimrod was dead. Very interesting read.

 

[MrE]

Here’s the thing… the ‘Genesis’ of a false premise and how it becomes a false narrative and then a false belief-

Ham is identified as the one who did “whatever” it was that was done to shame Noah. Scripture is clear on that.

Yet it’s only Ham’s youngest son Canaan, who is punished and not Ham himself—-

So Ham ‘done it,’ and Ham has 4 sons, but only the youngest is punished. It doesn’t make sense. And since it doesn’t make sense, then people propose this bizarre twist— that Canaan is the fruit of the illicit act. It’s an attempt to make sense of what again— just doesn’t make sense.

So exposing Noah’s nakedness (shaming and humiliating him) suddenly becomes having sex with his wife. A ‘giant’ leap.

But the problem remains— what punishment for the culprit, Ham? None mentioned. Neither does scripture mention this TMZ-worthy report of Canaan being the son of Noah’s wife. It’s frankly ludicrous.

Had that been the case, it would have been noted, highlighted, circled, underlined —- emphasized in the telling, not minimized with coded language to insinuate something. It grasping at straws, and it’s an unnecessary leap that leads to an unsatisfactory supposition.

Neither does it solve the genetic problem of a trait that appears only in the line of Ham through all four of his sons, not restricted only to Canaan. -Canaan’s brothers also produced genetic anaomalies- giants, proving that the four brothers (sons of Ham) had a common mother, and that Canaan was not uniquely a one-off bastard offspring of this imagined act.

 

[Grace911]

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Gen_9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Pro_25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

 

[stilllearning]

Because everything reproduces after its own kind. Even if you believe angels had relations with women, how did they magically reproduce after another kind?

Kind is used solely for lower life forms be they plants, animals, or aquatic. Kind is used only for these lower life forms. God does not nor would he call himself kind since there is none like him and he is the absolute highest always and forever.

In Genesis on the sixth day he finishes up with what he calls kinds.

Genesis 1:24-25, And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:26-27, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

Not understanding kind has lead to blasphemy and heresy on my side of the aisle. I am Charismatic and the blasphemous from my side have built a whole false gospel how we are little gods. Amongst different arguments they put forth is Genesis. They say that God created everything after it's own kind then man is created as the god kind, little g they will add.

Since we are little g, gods then gods are wealthy, healthy, and have the power to speak words into existence. Word of Faith, Name it and Claim and other names the false doctrine is known by. It is perverted because they have perverted God to a kind and humanity as a kind, a god kind.

God does not call himself a kind and neither does he call us a kind being made in his image.

 

[Cameron143]

Kind is used solely for lower life forms be they plants, animals, or aquatic. Kind is used only for these lower life forms. God does not nor would he call himself kind since there is none like him and he is the absolute highest always and forever.

In Genesis on the sixth day he finishes up with what he calls kinds.

Genesis 1:24-25, And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:26-27, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

Not understanding kind has lead to blasphemy and heresy on my side of the aisle. I am Charismatic and the blasphemous from my side have built a whole false gospel how we are little gods. Amongst different arguments they put forth is Genesis. They say that God created everything after it's own kind then man is created as the god kind, little g they will add.

Since we are little g, gods then gods are wealthy, healthy, and have the power to speak words into existence. Word of Faith, Name it and Claim and other names the false doctrine is known by. It is perverted because they have perverted God to a kind and humanity as a kind, a god kind.

God does not call himself a kind and neither does he call us a kind being made in his image.

All good stuff. Are you suggesting that humans can produce something other than humans?
In biology, living things are classified by domain, kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species. Species is the level in which organisms can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. I've always thought of this as kind.

 

[MrE]

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Gen_9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Pro_25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

It really is talking about nakedness. (not sex).

From the time of Adam and Eve and that first transgression against God- “nakedness” has been associated directly with guilt, shame, humiliation, and helplessness. It was when they realized they were naked and ashamed that God provided them with a covering of skin and it was this very garment of skin that is at the center of this Noah story (according to Jasher). It’s Not the only mention of it.

Some propose that the Jacob and Esau story has a similar understanding, when Jacob steals his brother’s “birthright” -inheritance and is able to disguise himself with his brother’s “hairy skin.”

 

[stilllearning]

All good stuff. Are you suggesting that humans can produce something other than humans?
In biology, living things are classified by domain, kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species. Species is the level in which organisms can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. I've always thought of this as kind.

I believe that humans can only reproduce humans absent the supernatural. I openly confess I believe that the giants came from the unholy union of angels and women.

We know from scripture Psalms 8 and Hebrews 2 that human's are lower than the angels. We also know when we have our new body it will be one like the angels. Christ had such a body after he rose. I fall in the camp of those who read in Luke 24 and John 20 that the doors were locked and Jesus appeared. They thought he was a spirit but showed them he was flesh and bones. I am of the camp that he walked through a solid object to appear before them.

Since I believe that and that angels can and have appeared as men. In my limited mind I find that one would have to have the ability to change ones density on a molecular level. In other words be able to make your solid atoms pass by other solid atoms. For lack of a better definition something like the Marvel hero Vision, have the ability change your density.

Just from my reading and understanding I believe that angels have that ability. I also find that they can do miracles because we are warned in the last days that folks will be deceived by false miracles. I believe it will be the demonic doing so and they have the ability to do so.

We know that the demonic copied God and made inanimate staffs into serpents as well as other miracles that were copied that Moses did. I don't believe in UFO's but do believe that people are seeing something demonic. So I find that angels, demonic ones in this case do have supernatural powers.

We also know that they have the ability to enter into a person and take over their body. They also can do so in vast numbers. One man was possessed a by a legion. A legion is 4800 soldiers. Yet that many could could all inhabit one man. We know that when the demonic is kicked out he will search and find another more powerful than himself to go with him and they again possess.

So like God had to make laws for humans not sleep with lower life forms namely animals as well as with their own sex. I find that sin perverts that bad. So I don't find it hard to believe that sinful angels would sleep with what is lower than them and don't find it beyond the possible that they have abilities to for lack of better words shapeshift at a molecular level and even enter into a persons very body.

So I find it very possible that just knowing these supernatural abilities that they could do the impossible. Which Satan himself said he would be like the most high so those that fell with him I would think have the same mentality and a mentality that would make them brazen and prevented enough to try and make man after their own image.

So this is what I believe. However it can't in my opinion or as far as my ability can I prove it without a shadow of a doubt from scripture. So I would never find my belief to be doctrinal nor push it as such and as such have no hard feelings at all for anyone who finds otherwise.

 

[MrE]

Why do you suppose that Noah's wife's name is never mentioned? Or perhaps it is? Does the name Gaia mean Mother Earth?

Noah's wife is very much central to the story as told in Jasher--

Noah the son of Lamech refrained from taking a wife in those days, to beget children, for he said, Surely now God will destroy the earth, wherefore then shall I beget children?

And Noah was a just man, he was perfect in his generation, and the Lord chose him to raise up seed from his seed upon the face of the earth. And the Lord said unto Noah, Take unto thee a wife, and beget children, for I have seen thee righteous before me in this generation. And thou shalt raise up seed, and thy children with thee, in the midst of the earth; and Noah went and took a wife, and he chose Naamah the daughter of Enoch, and she was five hundred and eighty years old.

And Noah was four hundred and ninety-eight years old, when he took Naamah for a wife.

And Naamah conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Japheth, saying, God has enlarged me in the earth; and she conceived again and bare a son, and he called his name Shem, saying, God has made me a remnant, to raise up seed in the midst of the earth.

And Noah was five hundred and two years old when Naamah bare Shem, and the boys grew up and went in the ways of the Lord, in all that Methuselah and Noah their father taught them.


With this information, we realize that she is also, mentioned in scripture.... Gen 4:22

Naamah (Hebrew: נַעֲמָה – Naʿămā) as a descendant of Cain. She was the only mentioned daughter of Lamech and Zillah and their youngest mentioned child; her brother was Tubal-cain, while Jabal and Jubal were her half-brothers, sons of Lamech's other wife Adah.

 

[stilllearning]

It really is talking about nakedness. (not sex).

From the time of Adam and Eve and that first transgression against God- “nakedness” has been associated directly with guilt, shame, humiliation, and helplessness. It was when they realized they were naked and ashamed that God provided them with a covering of skin and it was this very garment of skin that is at the center of this Noah story (according to Jasher). It’s Not the only mention of it.

Some propose that the Jacob and Esau story has a similar understanding, when Jacob steals his brother’s “birthright” -inheritance and is able to disguise himself with his brother’s “hairy skin.”

I find it is nakedness as well because Ham goes and tells his brothers and they walk in backwards and cover their father. If it's sex then Ham would have gone and told his brothers he had raped their mother and their only response would be to toss a blanket over her.
That does not seem a very likely response.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe that humans can only reproduce humans absent the supernatural. I openly confess I believe that the giants came from the unholy union of angels and women.

We know from scripture Psalms 8 and Hebrews 2 that human's are lower than the angels. We also know when we have our new body it will be one like the angels. Christ had such a body after he rose. I fall in the camp of those who read in Luke 24 and John 20 that the doors were locked and Jesus appeared. They thought he was a spirit but showed them he was flesh and bones. I am of the camp that he walked through a solid object to appear before them.

Since I believe that and that angels can and have appeared as men. In my limited mind I find that one would have to have the ability to change ones density on a molecular level. In other words be able to make your solid atoms pass by other solid atoms. For lack of a better definition something like the Marvel hero Vision, have the ability change your density.

Just from my reading and understanding I believe that angels have that ability. I also find that they can do miracles because we are warned in the last days that folks will be deceived by false miracles. I believe it will be the demonic doing so and they have the ability to do so.

We know that the demonic copied God and made inanimate staffs into serpents as well as other miracles that were copied that Moses did. I don't believe in UFO's but do believe that people are seeing something demonic. So I find that angels, demonic ones in this case do have supernatural powers.

We also know that they have the ability to enter into a person and take over their body. They also can do so in vast numbers. One man was possessed a by a legion. A legion is 4800 soldiers. Yet that many could could all inhabit one man. We know that when the demonic is kicked out he will search and find another more powerful than himself to go with him and they again possess.

So like God had to make laws for humans not sleep with lower life forms namely animals as well as with their own sex. I find that sin perverts that bad. So I don't find it hard to believe that sinful angels would sleep with what is lower than them and don't find it beyond the possible that they have abilities to for lack of better words shapeshift at a molecular level and even enter into a persons very body.

So I find it very possible that just knowing these supernatural abilities that they could do the impossible. Which Satan himself said he would be like the most high so those that fell with him I would think have the same mentality and a mentality that would make them brazen and prevented enough to try and make man after their own image.

So this is what I believe. However it can't in my opinion or as far as my ability can I prove it without a shadow of a doubt from scripture. So I would never find my belief to be doctrinal nor push it as such and as such have no hard feelings at all for anyone who finds otherwise.

I'm ok with most you have stated. But if men were to pervert themselves with lower forms, there would be no reproduction. I believe this would hold true for angels and lower forms.
Also, I believe it is God who opens the womb. So I would view God as a participant in angelic-human offspring.

 

[Grace911]

I find it is nakedness as well because Ham goes and tells his brothers and they walk in backwards and cover their father. If it's sex then Ham would have gone and told his brothers he had raped their mother and their only response would be to toss a blanket over her.
That does not seem a very likely response.

No not so.

Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Gen_9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Pro_25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

 

[MrE]

I find it is nakedness as well because Ham goes and tells his brothers and they walk in backwards and cover their father. If it's sex then Ham would have gone and told his brothers he had raped their mother and their only response would be to toss a blanket over her.
That does not seem a very likely response.

It's to be thought of as a humiliation-- shameful nakedness, as in that garden of Eden example, but also notably here>>> 2 Sam 10, where David's men were defeated and captured and sent to walk home with their beards half-shaven-off and the bottoms cut out of their garments so their butts hung out. Also see Isaiah 20, for another example.... same words for this "nakedness" and none of it has to do with having sex with your Dad, or your Dad's wife.

 

[stilllearning]

I'm ok with most you have stated. But if men were to pervert themselves with lower forms, there would be no reproduction. I believe this would hold true for angels and lower forms.
Also, I believe it is God who opens the womb. So I would view God as a participant in angelic-human offspring.

Fair enough but just because we don't have the ability to do so naturally does not mean we are not trying to do so with science. At present we do research with animal genes and how they could be used for humanity. Transhumanism is a thing and what we can't do naturally does not stop us from trying to do so with science. Gene modification is something we do with food and animals now and won't be long something we do to ourselves.

So just because we can't do so naturally does not make it so we can't do so we just use perverted science so in the case of angels instead of science they would use perverted supernatural. In truth though we are already doing what is not natural yet we are able to do so just by other means. Like it says nothing will be impossible to them, I think we are entering into those times and days with much more to come.

However, I appreciate your takes bro and do find logic behind them