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Witness45
Guest
You people have no healing power anymore. You make a full 24 page thread complaining about people who are so lonely and depressed that many of them just want to end it all, because it's apparently such a bother and a bore to be around them? Really? I'd love to see you all follow your own advise by being selfless and not caring how much it bores or bothers you cause if you really cared it wouldn't. You people apparently don't seem to get the fact that these people you hate to be around so much are depressed and lonely for a reason. Typically because the world is filled with people like you, who don't have the first clue what true loneliness and despair feels like, so they simplistically give a little pat answer or solution to their problem. "Just get out more", "put yourself out there", "Show more confidence, then we'll like you". It's as stupid and hateful as just looking at an abuse victim and point blank saying "Just get over it".
Newsflash: THEY DON'T JUST GET OVER IT. Severely depressed people don't just get out more, and they don't just put themselves out there. Why would they when all they get is criticism from people for being depressed and then isolated from people because these good ol' happy Christian people want to stay happy and don't want to be bothered by someone else's problems? That kind of thing only draws them further back into their shell. It tears down the very confidence that you expect for them to just miraculously conjure up from nowhere. It's threads like this and "happy people" like you who give severely lonely and depressed people a reason to end it all from a lack of hope.
Newsflash: THEY DON'T JUST GET OVER IT. Severely depressed people don't just get out more, and they don't just put themselves out there. Why would they when all they get is criticism from people for being depressed and then isolated from people because these good ol' happy Christian people want to stay happy and don't want to be bothered by someone else's problems? That kind of thing only draws them further back into their shell. It tears down the very confidence that you expect for them to just miraculously conjure up from nowhere. It's threads like this and "happy people" like you who give severely lonely and depressed people a reason to end it all from a lack of hope.
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Witness45
Guest
One other thing I want to address: This idea that it's not your job to lift people out of their rut, it's God's.
You're right, it is God's job. But how does he accomplish this? Through people. He sends his people out into the world to spread the gospel, he sends his people out into the world to help the poor and the needy, and he also sends his people out into the world to help emotionally heal, encourage, and befriend those who are depressed and lonely to the point of death.
I've read this same lazy response from people over and over again, that it's God's job not yours. That's just laziness and selfishness on your part. If nothing else a compete and total lack of understanding, and it utterly destroys those who are hurting.
Either stop making excuses and complaining about depressed people, or stop calling yourself a Christian. Pick one of the two.
You're right, it is God's job. But how does he accomplish this? Through people. He sends his people out into the world to spread the gospel, he sends his people out into the world to help the poor and the needy, and he also sends his people out into the world to help emotionally heal, encourage, and befriend those who are depressed and lonely to the point of death.
I've read this same lazy response from people over and over again, that it's God's job not yours. That's just laziness and selfishness on your part. If nothing else a compete and total lack of understanding, and it utterly destroys those who are hurting.
Either stop making excuses and complaining about depressed people, or stop calling yourself a Christian. Pick one of the two.
I hear your pain and can identify with it. I know you didn't read much of the thread because there were quite a few of us who agree with your post from the beginning.... And then the thread dissolved into silliness.
i am so sorry you are hurting, and would like to listen if you would like me to. My in box is open for you, Witness45. I have some experience with significant depression. And I am the surviving spouse of a suicide.
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CarolSampaio
Guest
Why so much anger, Witness?
I don't think people around here are telling people who are suffering from depression to suck it up and go out there and be magically well...
Anyone who's suffered from depression (as have I) know for a fact that it is not true... we will need the help of family, friends, pshichologists and, if it comes to that, medication....
We're just talking about that a person is much more beautiful when they are happy and filled with the love of Christ than when they are just plastically beautiful...
Just that... don't have to get all defensive here... and, please, don't judge... you don't know each one of our lives, or daily struggles... it's easy to point the finger on others, and forget about ourselves...
So do your best... and lead by example... I'm sure you'll reach more people and make much more of a difference than being agressive like that to people who are just enjoying a good time in a harmless thread over the internet..
Hope you feel better!
I don't think people around here are telling people who are suffering from depression to suck it up and go out there and be magically well...
Anyone who's suffered from depression (as have I) know for a fact that it is not true... we will need the help of family, friends, pshichologists and, if it comes to that, medication....
We're just talking about that a person is much more beautiful when they are happy and filled with the love of Christ than when they are just plastically beautiful...
Just that... don't have to get all defensive here... and, please, don't judge... you don't know each one of our lives, or daily struggles... it's easy to point the finger on others, and forget about ourselves...
So do your best... and lead by example... I'm sure you'll reach more people and make much more of a difference than being agressive like that to people who are just enjoying a good time in a harmless thread over the internet..
Hope you feel better!
People don't (and most of the time won't even try to) understand what someone is completely going through unless they go through it themselves. Unfortunately, we (yes, even Christians) live in a first impression society. I completely hate it, because if someone gets beaten so severely every single night, and the morning you meet him/her, he/she isn't "chippy enough" to your liking... You'd think the person is "out there" when in reality, God gave you an opportunity to reach out to this person and maybe even save him/her from the beating situation, but because the person "wasn't chippy enough" you blew him/her off. It sickens me to see other Christians on this thread that have said they would not hang out with people "different from them" and that they are not sorry about it... People like to try to forget that Jesus spent most of His time with the worst of the worst.
People, it's all or nothing when it comes to Jesus. You either live and act Christlike in ALL situations, and that includes hanging out with "different people" or you don't follow Him at all. The Bible says this. We don't pick and choose what we want to take out of it and what we don't. A lot of you need to take a long look at yourselves, and I hope and pray you don't suffer the same type of behavior you send to people that "may be different" from you. You don't know what the person goes through, and you just may well be the final straw that broke the camel's back that causes the person to commit suicide.
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Witness45
Guest
I read the first few pages and figured the rest was just more of the same. Sorry if I'm late to the party.
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Witness45
Guest
Why so much anger, Witness?
I don't think people around here are telling people who are suffering from depression to suck it up and go out there and be magically well...
Anyone who's suffered from depression (as have I) know for a fact that it is not true... we will need the help of family, friends, pshichologists and, if it comes to that, medication....
We're just talking about that a person is much more beautiful when they are happy and filled with the love of Christ than when they are just plastically beautiful...
Just that... don't have to get all defensive here... and, please, don't judge... you don't know each one of our lives, or daily struggles... it's easy to point the finger on others, and forget about ourselves...
So do your best... and lead by example... I'm sure you'll reach more people and make much more of a difference than being agressive like that to people who are just enjoying a good time in a harmless thread over the internet..
Hope you feel better!
This kind of simplistic pat response with no depth and no regret is exactly what I was talking about in the above post... -_-'
Why so much anger, Witness?
I don't think people around here are telling people who are suffering from depression to suck it up and go out there and be magically well...
Anyone who's suffered from depression (as have I) know for a fact that it is not true... we will need the help of family, friends, pshichologists and, if it comes to that, medication....
We're just talking about that a person is much more beautiful when they are happy and filled with the love of Christ than when they are just plastically beautiful...
Just that... don't have to get all defensive here... and, please, don't judge... you don't know each one of our lives, or daily struggles... it's easy to point the finger on others, and forget about ourselves...
So do your best... and lead by example... I'm sure you'll reach more people and make much more of a difference than being agressive like that to people who are just enjoying a good time in a harmless thread over the internet..
Hope you feel better!
What Witness is saying is that those same people that don't show joy and happiness on the outside still have that same love by Christ. They may not know it because they've spent the 24 years of their lives being told they're pieces of crap, or 35 years of their lives being told they're ugly and no one will ever love them. So, how would you know if the person does have a fire for Jesus, when you don't approach them with a smile and say "Hi, I'm Carol. What's your name?"
My best girlfriend loved Jesus more than many I know. Every.Single.Day. she struggled with deep depression and questioning God's love for her because she just couldn't get "happy". Did she laugh? Yes. Was she great fun to be around? Absolutely. But the way she was built, the deeper struggles of life weighed heavier on her for reasons that I will respect are not things that even posthumously are anyone else's business. Every day she CHOSE to believe the truth of what her Savior promised, what God promised. Every day it was a choice.
There is no doubt in my mind that she is rejoicing in heaven. That my return to faith after so many years was such a joy to her. But did she suffer from depression? Yes. Did God release that from her on earth? No. But she is whole and healed now, in HIS presence. And God gave her grace and strength while here on earth.
There is no doubt in my mind that she is rejoicing in heaven. That my return to faith after so many years was such a joy to her. But did she suffer from depression? Yes. Did God release that from her on earth? No. But she is whole and healed now, in HIS presence. And God gave her grace and strength while here on earth.
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CarolSampaio
Guest
I'm sorry you feel like this, Witness... I really am... and if what I said seemed wrong and simplistic and offended you somehow, I'm sorry, too...
I see your point, Jsr... and I do understand it... but I still think it is wrong for people to come at others like that... I don't like rudeness... I've had to deal with depression myself, and I've had to deal with friends and family with that kind of problem and I offered all the help I could... I've seen people at their worst and held their hand...
If I see someone who's hurting and I can reach to them, I will... but I do have a problem when people come at people with agressive behaviour and it makes me close myself up to them...
If that makes me a bad person or a bad christian, well... then I'll have to deal with it with the Lord when the time comes...
I'm sorry you feel like this, Witness... I really am... and if what I said seemed wrong and simplistic and offended you somehow, I'm sorry, too...
I see your point, Jsr... and I do understand it... but I still think it is wrong for people to come at others like that... I don't like rudeness... I've had to deal with depression myself, and I've had to deal with friends and family with that kind of problem and I offered all the help I could... I've seen people at their worst and held their hand...
If I see someone who's hurting and I can reach to them, I will... but I do have a problem when people come at people with agressive behaviour and it makes me close myself up to them...
If that makes me a bad person or a bad christian, well... then I'll have to deal with it with the Lord when the time comes...
It's not about being aggressive. It's about being at school (or in our cases, work) and we see a kid in the corner eating alone (or in our case, a coworker) and us getting up and either ask the person if he/she wants to join you, or you ask if you can sit with him/her. Sometimes, a small gesture like that can make such a huge difference for someone. Because you don't know how many times that person has been pushed to the side by society.
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CarolSampaio
Guest
I know that... I guess I'm not being able to explain it...
This you just described, I do all the time... I used to be the kid eating alone in middle school... I used to be the one that had no friends... I would bring a book to school so I would have something to do while on lunch break and stuff... so it always gets to me when I see someone by thelmselves... I try my best to make them comfortable and feeling that they belong!!!
What I tried to say in my first post, is that I just didn't get why Witness was so angry with the thread... it is obvious no one was saying that depressed people should suck it up and stuff... we were just talking lightly about the differences between the beauty that comes from within and the beauty that's just on the outside...
As far as I knew, this was supposed to be a fun and light thread... not something heavy that people got offended by... just that...
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MissCris
Guest
The majority of people are always going to be more likely to be drawn to others who seem to be happy and content with life and with themselves, partly because it Is attractive, and partly because happy people have something others want or have something others can identify with and relate to.
But just because one person is attractively happy, or joyful, or oozing contentment or confidence, it doesn't have to detract from the appeal of a less buoyant or less smiling or less "out there" person. I mean, of course some people are going to pass right over the quiet people, or the person who isn't joking and laughing all the time. It's easier to ignore people who might be in pain than to strike up a conversation. But in my experience, there Are plenty of people in this world who are more drawn to the sad, the hopeless, the depressed, the hurting people than they are to the "happy" ones.
I think it's...not unfair, exactly...but certainly a bit naive...to assume that only happy people have anything to offer. Certainly there is beauty in laughter and joy, but there is also beauty in sorrow. Neither should be overlooked.
But just because one person is attractively happy, or joyful, or oozing contentment or confidence, it doesn't have to detract from the appeal of a less buoyant or less smiling or less "out there" person. I mean, of course some people are going to pass right over the quiet people, or the person who isn't joking and laughing all the time. It's easier to ignore people who might be in pain than to strike up a conversation. But in my experience, there Are plenty of people in this world who are more drawn to the sad, the hopeless, the depressed, the hurting people than they are to the "happy" ones.
I think it's...not unfair, exactly...but certainly a bit naive...to assume that only happy people have anything to offer. Certainly there is beauty in laughter and joy, but there is also beauty in sorrow. Neither should be overlooked.
I know that... I guess I'm not being able to explain it...
This you just described, I do all the time... I used to be the kid eating alone in middle school... I used to be the one that had no friends... I would bring a book to school so I would have something to do while on lunch break and stuff... so it always gets to me when I see someone by thelmselves... I try my best to make them comfortable and feeling that they belong!!!
What I tried to say in my first post, is that I just didn't get why Witness was so angry with the thread... it is obvious no one was saying that depressed people should suck it up and stuff... we were just talking lightly about the differences between the beauty that comes from within and the beauty that's just on the outside...
As far as I knew, this was supposed to be a fun and light thread... not something heavy that people got offended by... just that...
I was that person in high school too. For 2 years, I would spend lunch either at the library, or in the bathroom... Every day. For 2 years. As far as inner/outer beauty, I was just saying we can't pre determine if someone doesn't have inner beauty, all because we had a 30 second conversation with someone and the person seemed aggressive, as you put it. For those in a relationship and married, people always find out new things about the other until the day they die. So this notion that someone doesn't have inner beauty because they seemed cold or rude, is garbage. I'm not saying you said that, but it has been mentioned before by others.
Part of what is problematic here is that we would prefer for people to be much simpler than they actually are.
Personally, I'm drawn to people who are what I would call "ironically optimistic." Basically, they have their own shadows that they deal with, but they are not lacking in hope. They see the world as a place of beauty and God's presence....and they look for good in others.
People who are sort of determinedly "peppy" or "upbeat" tend to read as "shallow" to me (which is *clearly* a judgement on my part).
Humanity is complex. The "peppy" person may have a great coping mechanism for the inner pain that they're facing, or maybe they're people-pleasing, or maybe they're in denial....or maybe it's a mix of all three. The "shadowy" person may have great hope for the world, or maybe they're self-indulgent, or maybe they are in denial...or maybe all three. You don't get one thing when you link your life to another human. You get a vast array of complex behaviors and emotional responses...sometimes all at once.
But, then this is what makes people so fascinating.
Personally, I'm drawn to people who are what I would call "ironically optimistic." Basically, they have their own shadows that they deal with, but they are not lacking in hope. They see the world as a place of beauty and God's presence....and they look for good in others.
People who are sort of determinedly "peppy" or "upbeat" tend to read as "shallow" to me (which is *clearly* a judgement on my part).
Humanity is complex. The "peppy" person may have a great coping mechanism for the inner pain that they're facing, or maybe they're people-pleasing, or maybe they're in denial....or maybe it's a mix of all three. The "shadowy" person may have great hope for the world, or maybe they're self-indulgent, or maybe they are in denial...or maybe all three. You don't get one thing when you link your life to another human. You get a vast array of complex behaviors and emotional responses...sometimes all at once.
But, then this is what makes people so fascinating.
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Mitspa
Guest
I Probably spend more time than anyone on this forum reaching out to hurting people in REAl LIFE ...that's probably why I have the joy I do? so to pop on a thread and just blast folks for being what God desires just builds upon your own misery.
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Mitspa
Guest
I have a suggestion for some of you ...go visit the sick, feed the poor...give and it will be given back to you. Until you do that you will never know the joy of the Lord .
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Mitspa
Guest
Look Jsr...some folks on this forum are always negative and bitter...and it seems many of them like to chat the singles area...even if they was drop-dead gorgeous no one would want them because of their horrible attitudes.