Has your church taught the reason Jesus Christ came to earth, was to save every single person on earth? HOW can that be true?

[memberofthebride]

Does your church teach today, each one of the billions born over the last 2000 years, must “believe” or they go to directly to Hell and eternal punishment?

Take a moment, think logically, if that were true, Christ has failed.

At this moment out of 8 billion alive today only 2 billion have some connection to Christianity. That only 25%.

And over the last 2000 years the percentage of those calling themselves Christian’s has even been way lower. Maybe in single digits.

For the last 2000 years, up until the last 8 or 10 centuries, whole continents have had zero contact with “Christianity”. Australia, much of Africa, what is now America and South America, Japan and China.

Even Europe and Russia knew nothing of Christ until some of the 12 apostles began to reach them long after 31 AD.

It is very likely scores of billions have lived and died, never even hearing the only Name given under heaven, once.

Christ did not come until 31 AD, so what happens to those born during the previous 4000 years?

Explain, please, how this cannot be true. Explain where this is wrong.

 

[Mem]

Does your church teach today, each one of the billions born over the last 2000 years, must “believe” or they go to directly to Hell and eternal punishment?

Take a moment, think logically, if that were true, Christ has failed.

At this moment out of 8 billion alive today only 2 billion have some connection to Christianity. That only 25%.

And over the last 2000 years the percentage of those calling themselves Christian’s has even been way lower. Maybe in single digits.

For the last 2000 years, up until the last 8 or 10 centuries, whole continents have had zero contact with “Christianity”. Australia, much of Africa, what is now America and South America, Japan and China.

Even Europe and Russia knew nothing of Christ until some of the 12 apostles began to reach them long after 31 AD.

It is very likely scores of billions have lived and died, never even hearing the only Name given under heaven, once.

Christ did not come until 31 AD, so what happens to those born during the previous 4000 years?

Explain, please, how this cannot be true. Explain where this is wrong.

Jesus came to save those who believe, and there is no one that hasn't been exposed to His true nature to so love the world. Man, even by nature, wouldn't create anything he hated.

 

[memberofthebride]

Jesus came to save those who believe, and there is no one that hasn't been exposed to His true nature to so love the world. Man, even by nature, wouldn't create anything he hated.

So according to you 100 billion are going to hell?

 

[memberofthebride]

Jesus came to save those who believe, and there is no one that hasn't been exposed to His true nature to so love the world. Man, even by nature, wouldn't create anything he hated.

That is a very powerful god, you follow. and full of mercy
So the American Indian's are saved?? WOW!!! I wonder if the ones they scalped are too?

My beliefs all come from the Word of God, God has not yet begun to save everyone and when He does He will.

 

[pinebeach]

That is a very powerful god, you follow. and full of mercy
So the American Indian's are saved?? WOW!!! I wonder if the ones they scalped are too?

My beliefs all come from the Word of God, God has not yet begun to save everyone and when He does He will.

I agree they are most certainly your beliefs, but they are not found in scripture. You take a little from that book or verse or chapter, a little from another and mix the testaments so that you end up with a confusing almalgam of unrelated words strung together to create your very own personal gospel, which is not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. You present someone, that is not Jesus and a God that anyone familiar with scripture, would instantly reject.

You would be wise to reject your creation also but you have strapped yourself in and hang on with white knuckles to your version of make believe god that can save no one but will save everyone.

 

[pinebeach]

Explain, please, how this cannot be true. Explain where this is wrong.

I fully understand how you cannot grasp truth since your mind rejects what is true. The more you do that, the more truth as presented in scripture, will fail to convince you as you have made your own god, your own little jesus and I have yet to read what you have made up about the Holy Spirit.

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is none who does good. Psalm 14:1

YOU are actually judging God and have found Him to be less than what YOU think He should be. You approach blasphemy with this revelation and bring judgement on yourself.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

You must be ashamed of the gospel to seek to change it and make it over in your own image.

 

[pinebeach]

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Romans 1

What can be known about God is plain to mankind because God has shown it to all. They have no excuse for how they behave or the fact they are fools and say there is no God.

Remaking God into a flase god, that is creating a gospel that makes God a weak wishy washy spirit is becoming a fool.

 

[memberofthebride]

so far no one has explained the status of the billions of folks that never ever heard of the ONE name under heaven where by men can be given the gift of eternal life ---

they can only attack the one who asked the question.

how is it possible to gain the gift of eternal life as a false god worshiping pagan? i would love to hear the answer to that question.

One that offers there own babies as sacrifices to baal or some other Satan inspired demonic "evil" worshiped as god??

Or how are the aborted, those cut out of the womb, saved?

 

[pinebeach]

so far no one has explained the status of the billions of folks that never ever heard of the ONE name under heaven where by men can be given the gift of eternal life ---

they can only attack the one who asked the question.

how is it possible to gain the gift of eternal life as a false god worshiping pagan? i would love to hear the answer to that question.

One that offers there own babies as sacrifices to baal or some other Satan inspired demonic "evil" worshiped as god??

Or how are the aborted, those cut out of the womb, saved?

You refuse the answer. The Bible is explicit on that very answer. Every single time you say that is not true, you reveal the lie you have swallowed and seek to convince others of. You are not God and that is where your problem begins. You cannot begin to fathom the mind of our Creator or the fact He is eternal, no beginning and no end. You seek to bring Him down to your understanding which, reading your posts, is more than just sketchy. You judge God every time you say hell does not exist or if God were the god you believe in, no one would go to hell because all the demonically sinful people never heard of Him.

Is that so? God cannot tolerate sin. Sin destroyed this earth once before and possibly even twice (as some believe) but you think He will now be tolerable and just forgive and forget? That is a god of your own making. That god, is not God.

 

[memberofthebride]

You refuse the answer. The Bible is explicit on that very answer. Every single time you say that is not true, you reveal the lie you have swallowed and seek to convince others of. You are not God and that is where your problem begins. You cannot begin to fathom the mind of our Creator or the fact He is eternal, no beginning and no end. You seek to bring Him down to your understanding which, reading your posts, is more than just sketchy. You judge God every time you say hell does not exist or if God were the god you believe in, no one would go to hell because all the demonically sinful people never heard of Him.

Is that so? God cannot tolerate sin. Sin destroyed this earth once before and possibly even twice (as some believe) but you think He will now be tolerable and just forgive and forget? That is a god of your own making. That god, is not God.

pinebeach you are just talking around the question, and blaming the one asking the questions

No! hell does not exist, I would never follow a god that would punish and unconverted person, or a one year old or even a converted person that turned their back to God for eternity. That is not mercy, that is pure satanic evil.

But the merciful Lake of Fire is real. All that refuse to repent and turn to THE ONE WAY will be burnt to ashes for ever.

the answers to all the questions are in the Word and they are logical, they are kind and full of patience and mercy and justice, not the human kind of justice, true justice.

My purpose here is to provoke a few in to questioning their beliefs and digging into the Word of GOD, the entire WORD for Truth.
I have not changed my view on the 40,000 flavors of confusion, it is alive and well

 

[pinebeach]

pinebeach you are just talking around the question, and blaming the one asking the questions

No! hell does not exist, I would never follow a god that would punish and unconverted person, or a one year old or even a converted person that turned their back to God for eternity. That is not mercy, that is pure satanic evil.

But the merciful Lake of Fire is real. All that refuse to repent and turn to THE ONE WAY will be burnt to ashes for ever.

the answers to all the questions are in the Word and they are logical, they are kind and full of patience and mercy and justice, not the human kind of justice, true justice.

My purpose here is to provoke a few in to questioning their beliefs and digging into the Word of GOD, the entire WORD for Truth.
I have not changed my view on the 40,000 flavors of confusion, it is alive and well

I would not expect you to agree with me. You do not present logic. You present emotional alternatives to the hard reality of scripture and God who does not need your permission, my permission or anyone's permission to enact His perfect judgement on people and this world.

In your economy then, it appears you do not follow God, but rather the implement of your own imagination, achieved by your desire to bring God down to your level.

Logic is the study of correct reasoning. It includes both formal and informal logic. Formal logic is the study of deductively valid inferences or logical truths. It examines how conclusions follow from premises based on the structure of arguments alone, independent of their topic and content. Informal logic is associated with informal fallacies, critical thinking, and argumentation theory. Informal logic examines arguments expressed in natural language whereas formal logic uses formal language. When used as a countable noun, the term "a logic" refers to a specific logical formal system that articulates a proof system. Logic plays a central role in many fields, such as philosophy, mathematics, computer science, and linguistics.

Logic studies arguments, which consist of a set of premises that leads to a conclusion. An example is the argument from the premises "it's Sunday" and "if it's Sunday then I don't have to work" leading to the conclusion "I don't have to work."[1] Premises and conclusions express propositions or claims that can be true or false. An important feature of propositions is their internal structure. For example, complex propositions are made up of simpler propositions linked by logical vocabulary like ∧

(and) or →

(if...then). Simple propositions also have parts, like "Sunday" or "work" in the example. The truth of a proposition usually depends on the meanings of all of its parts. However, this is not the case for logically true propositions. They are true only because of their logical structure independent of the specific meanings of the individual parts. wiki

Now tell me again how your methodology is logical.

You should know, however, that the Bible is not a logical book. You believe in God who is invisible, who created all things, who is eternal, who is both our Judge and Redeemer and will one day destroy this world and create a new one.

Nothing logical there at all, but all observed through faith, which is also not logical.

 

[memberofthebride]

I would not expect you to agree with me. You do not present logic. You present emotional alternatives to the hard reality of scripture and God who does not need your permission, my permission or anyone's permission to enact His perfect judgement on people and this world.

In your economy then, it appears you do not follow God, but rather the implement of your own imagination, achieved by your desire to bring God down to your level.

Logic is the study of correct reasoning. It includes both formal and informal logic. Formal logic is the study of deductively valid inferences or logical truths. It examines how conclusions follow from premises based on the structure of arguments alone, independent of their topic and content. Informal logic is associated with informal fallacies, critical thinking, and argumentation theory. Informal logic examines arguments expressed in natural language whereas formal logic uses formal language. When used as a countable noun, the term "a logic" refers to a specific logical formal system that articulates a proof system. Logic plays a central role in many fields, such as philosophy, mathematics, computer science, and linguistics.

Logic studies arguments, which consist of a set of premises that leads to a conclusion. An example is the argument from the premises "it's Sunday" and "if it's Sunday then I don't have to work" leading to the conclusion "I don't have to work."[1] Premises and conclusions express propositions or claims that can be true or false. An important feature of propositions is their internal structure. For example, complex propositions are made up of simpler propositions linked by logical vocabulary like ∧

(and) or →

(if...then). Simple propositions also have parts, like "Sunday" or "work" in the example. The truth of a proposition usually depends on the meanings of all of its parts. However, this is not the case for logically true propositions. They are true only because of their logical structure independent of the specific meanings of the individual parts. wiki

Now tell me again how your methodology is logical.

You should know, however, that the Bible is not a logical book. You believe in God who is invisible, who created all things, who is eternal, who is both our Judge and Redeemer and will one day destroy this world and create a new one.

Nothing logical there at all, but all observed through faith, which is also not logical.

Sorry FAITH i.e. trust must be based on logical facts.'

Fact; I was a 100% sinner
Fact: Christ paid my debt for my sins
Fact; all debt must be paid
Fact it is appointed for men once to die.
Fact: Christ rose from death showing me He can and will do the same for me as He promised.
I trust I am no longer UNDER the death penalty by the fact I accept the payment made for me by Christ.
I trust Christ will rise me from death to eternal life as He has promised and fact: Christ can not lie.

 

[tourist]

So according to you 100 billion are going to hell?

Not a very good track record for Christianity.

 

[tourist]

Sorry FAITH i.e. trust must be based on logical facts.'

Fact; I was a 100% sinner
Fact: Christ paid my debt for my sins
Fact; all debt must be paid
Fact it is appointed for men once to die.
Fact: Christ rose from death showing me He can and will do the same for me as He promised.
I trust I am no longer UNDER the death penalty by the fact I accept the payment made for me by Christ.
I trust Christ will rise me from death to eternal life as He has promised and fact: Christ can not lie.

I fully concur with these facts that you have presented.

 

[memberofthebride]

Not a very good track record for Christianity.

Tourist,

the fact is -- the race is not over, in fact it has just begun and all will be called and given their one chance for eternal life BUT each in his own time.

If by the end of the 1000 years the number of humans born on earth has reached say 250 billion, each and every last one will be give a life time to learn God's Perfect Way.

Once the 7000 year plan of God is understood it blows ones mind, OUR Creator is so much greater then our physical minds are able to comprehend.

Without the spiritual component of God's Spirit, the human mind can not understand the Spiritual.

 

[pinebeach]

Sorry FAITH i.e. trust must be based on logical facts.'

Fact; I was a 100% sinner
Fact: Christ paid my debt for my sins
Fact; all debt must be paid
Fact it is appointed for men once to die.
Fact: Christ rose from death showing me He can and will do the same for me as He promised.
I trust I am no longer UNDER the death penalty by the fact I accept the payment made for me by Christ.
I trust Christ will rise me from death to eternal life as He has promised and fact: Christ can not lie.

Faith is not a fact based instrument for your personal emotion based 'logic'. Faith is based on what we cannot see and not an instrument that we can touch or prove through logic seeing as faith is not the logic you present, as I state in a previous post addressed to you.

What you wrote in this post 'sounds' right, but when compared to your often illogical renderings and insistence that hell does not exist and God will let everyone into his personal abode, we see that you will retreat to certain positions that are biblical, as you wrote. but you do not betray your actual sentiments.

For example, saying you believe 'It is appointed for one physical death' as per scripture, hides the fact that you believe no one is sent to hell to the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. You state you believe people will simply die and their spirit will not live on.

That, is contrary to what the Bible says.

 

[pinebeach]

I fully concur with these facts that you have presented.

Not a very good track record for Christianity.

Is it your belief that God is not able to perform His word and He does not have the right to judge His own creation?

Christianity is often reduced to religion which is not the life we have in Christ. Is that what you are talking about? It does not matter what you agree with if it is not biblical. You are simply revealing the sad fact that you might not agree with scripture either.

 

[pinebeach]

So according to you 100 billion are going to hell?

However many may be punished for rejecting Christ, Mem has no ability to send them there and neither she nor you are the arbitrer of that. Your entire premise is based on your desire to make God like you because you do not personally like what He has done, is doing or will do.

 

[memberofthebride]

However many may be punished for rejecting Christ, Mem has no ability to send them there and neither she nor you are the arbitrer of that. Your entire premise is based on your desire to make God like you because you do not personally like what He has done, is doing or will do.

The problem with your beliefs, going to heaven and hell are not taught in the Word, they all come from Rome which I do want nothing to do with.

After decades of study I have found zero scriptures in the Old or the New stating clearly our reward is to live in heaven or that the evil are to be tortured for eternity. I have found repeated over and over our reward is eternal life and those that refuse to obey are cast into the Lake of fire

If you have any scriptures I would love to see it or them. Scripture stating clearly "our reward is living in heaven" or even when we get to heaven.

 

[pinebeach]

The problem with your beliefs, going to heaven and hell are not taught in the Word, they all come from Rome which I do want nothing to do with.

After decades of study I have found zero scriptures in the Old or the New stating clearly our reward is to live in heaven or that the evil are to be tortured for eternity. I have found repeated over and over our reward is eternal life and those that refuse to obey are cast into the Lake of fire

If you have any scriptures I would love to see it or them. Scripture stating clearly "our reward is living in heaven" or even when we get to heaven.

No, the problem with is found in scripture directly conflicts with your presentations. Actual scholars who can translate from the original languages disagree with what you say.

You may know right now whether or not God will accept you. Yet you constantly make such statements as 'or even when we get to heaven.' That is not a biblical understanding.

5 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on[a] we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. II Corinthians



You would not love to see any scripture that refutes what you present because they have all been presented to you multiple times by different people.