Not according to the context forced upon it by the charismatic Pentecostal crowd.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you are stating that someone who can not speak in tongues is not born again. I have to tellyou that you teach a false doctrine! In the consequence you say all non pentecostal and non charismatic christians are not born again.
Means are not saved and not christians.
Sorry this is a false doctrine.
Poor Calvin, Knox, Luther, Simons, they all are lost! Only those sects like Mormons, and new apostolic Believers are saved because the are also getting The gift of healing, prophecie and speaking in tongues.
You realy believe that?
Means are not saved and not christians.
Sorry this is a false doctrine.
Poor Calvin, Knox, Luther, Simons, they all are lost! Only those sects like Mormons, and new apostolic Believers are saved because the are also getting The gift of healing, prophecie and speaking in tongues.
You realy believe that?
R
RobbyEarl
Guest
I'm Pentecostal and if I know something is posion I don't drink it and I don't play with snakes. You play with a snake you gonna get bit, even by human snakes.
R
RobbyEarl
Guest
You don't have to speak in tongues to be born again, this teaching diminishes what is true Pentecost. However you will speak in tongues as the evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit the bible is clear on that point.
It is Written, you shall not tempt the LORD your GOD (Deut 6:16, Matt 4:7)
The power of the indwelling Holy Spirit protects believers from real unprovoked dangers in accordance with the will of God. This is no error.
Acts 28:3 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
Far from the truth as speaking in tongues is a sign for unsaved Jews. The corrupted tongues of the Pentecostal charismatic churches is nothing like the apostolic churches.
The three sign gifts ended with the completion of the NT. The remaining gifts continue but are obscured by the uncleanness of the modern church.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Close your eyes, take a deep breath, and realize that I am not attacking you. (I'll confess that I have in times past but am not now). I am just sincerely trying to help you see where you have gone wrong.
See, the issue is not that my interpretation of scripture is not the same as yours. That's ok, we can agree to disagree.
The issue is that you repeatedly and continuously hold to interpretations that are CLEARLY contrary to God's word. You can't agree to disagree with God. Between your word and His, God wins. Every single time. And that doesn't get shown any clearer than this :
God's words:
Mark 11:23
Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.
Matthew 12:21
Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
Your words:
You are not going to move mountains with your faith.
Roger
This is where you fail, Roger. You hold God's word in contempt. You are DIRECTLY opposed to it.
Now, when you are able to let go of human understanding (you're not going to move mountains with your faith), and accept that however unlikely it sounds, with God you will move mountains with your faith, then you will begin to understand and accept spiritual concepts that over-ride the human equivalents (ie. you WILL move mountains with your faith, contrary to the human understanding that says it's impossible).
Until you see just how badly opposed to God's actual word you are, you will be nothing but an unreliable clanging cymbal in relation to ALL scripture.
Let go of your human understanding Roger. It is only then that you will have an understanding that surpasses all others.
And I offer that in all sincerity, brother.
Which means what? My God protects me everyday from unseen perils both physical and Spiritual. There is no need of sign gifts unless there are unsaved Jews present.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Are you really going to profess that you believe Jesus was literally telling the apostles to amass tangible faith equal to a grain of mustard seed? Can you not see that Jesus is comparing their lack of and inability to have faith sufficient to His?
Tell me how does one measure faith to the mustard seed?
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
How exactly to we measure the evidence of things not seen?
It is not about me and my faith but about Christ and His faith. My complete dependence upon Christ and not myself.
If the Spirit of Truth abides in you then you will know you cannot do anything with your faith.
When you take your eyes off yourself and fix them upon Christ then you will see.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Let's talk about those seducing spirits, Roger.
You're familiar with the personal experiences I have had (and related in my blogs). You think these are the result of seducing spirits. But let's look at the facts:
We are to test the spirits. One huge test is, does the spirit glorify God? Seducing spirits do not. That's not their purpose, far from.
The incident with the seas being stirred after a prayer of faith. That ended with the power of God being confirmed to a young boy. Would a seducing spirit confirm God's power to a young boy? Heck no, that's against their purpose.
The story about Vicki - here, a word of knowledge lead a woman to be removed from a demonic attack and taken to a place where she found comfort with the word of God and His people. Would a seducing spirit lead a woman from demonic attack to comfort in the word of God? No way. That's not their game plan.
How about the man who was angry with and rejecting God because he thought God had condemned his girlfriend to hell by taken her before she could choose Him? Here, a revelation delivered in spiritual prayer informed him that was not so, that God WAS with her at the end. Because of this, the man softened and reconsidered his hatred towards God. Would a seducing spirit work to soften and change a man's hatred of God? Methinks not.
How about you? You directly oppose the word of God on numerous occasions, and discount His power. Would seducing spirits lead a man to oppose God's word and deny His power? You betcha they will. That's their stock in trade.
Seducing spirits are at work here. But not where you think they are.
And that is why I try so hard to open your eyes to the truth.
You're familiar with the personal experiences I have had (and related in my blogs). You think these are the result of seducing spirits. But let's look at the facts:
We are to test the spirits. One huge test is, does the spirit glorify God? Seducing spirits do not. That's not their purpose, far from.
The incident with the seas being stirred after a prayer of faith. That ended with the power of God being confirmed to a young boy. Would a seducing spirit confirm God's power to a young boy? Heck no, that's against their purpose.
The story about Vicki - here, a word of knowledge lead a woman to be removed from a demonic attack and taken to a place where she found comfort with the word of God and His people. Would a seducing spirit lead a woman from demonic attack to comfort in the word of God? No way. That's not their game plan.
How about the man who was angry with and rejecting God because he thought God had condemned his girlfriend to hell by taken her before she could choose Him? Here, a revelation delivered in spiritual prayer informed him that was not so, that God WAS with her at the end. Because of this, the man softened and reconsidered his hatred towards God. Would a seducing spirit work to soften and change a man's hatred of God? Methinks not.
How about you? You directly oppose the word of God on numerous occasions, and discount His power. Would seducing spirits lead a man to oppose God's word and deny His power? You betcha they will. That's their stock in trade.
Seducing spirits are at work here. But not where you think they are.
And that is why I try so hard to open your eyes to the truth.
R
RobbyEarl
Guest
Yes, unless they had the baptism of the Spirit and kept the faith they were just religious people and Christ was never in them! You have to dump all that religious garbage into the trash can and see what the text actually says and not unregenerated mens opinion about it. Obviously religious people who have never received Jesus Christ by the Spirit baptism of fire are gonna come up with some religious doctrine telling you that you already have it when you become religious and get baptized at their church, and that the sings and wonders were only for that time. Or that you have to have an enormous amount of faith for them to take place. Go back and read my post 299# and see if that is what the bible is saying for yourself. Many are called, but few are chosen. Thats why we have so many religious people in this world.
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About 5% or so of Pentecostals are in the Oneness Pentecostal movement. This movement broke off from the larger Pentecostal movement because they believe that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and because they believe in saying 'in Jesus name' (or something similar) instead of the Matthew 28 baptismal formula. These are the only Pentecostals I know of that believe that if someone does not speak in tongues, he is not saved.
I don't think I have ever heard of any Charismatics who believe that someone who does not speak in tongues is not saved.
Brother, i know i am born again. The Holy spirit says it to my Spirit.
The Problem with your theory is, i speak for Germany. According what you believe: Before pentecostal movement came in 1907 to germany no christian exist in Germany. Because this doctrine nowhere was taught. Sorry man, this is simply not true! Yes we have many nominall christians and i was before i became a follower of Christ.
But your doctrine is a big missinterpreting of the scripture.
Biblical tongues was a sign for the rebellious nothing more and nothing less .There is no outward sign for a believer other than a new heart, new spirit and only God can see into the heart of man. Tongues is simply one of the many manners Christ was bringing new revelations called prophecy . He is no longer brining new revelations (prophecy) .What we had in part up until the last book of the law, Revelation, today we have the perfect will of God this is with no laws missing by which we could know him even more intimately.
The last sign and wonder (two fold) was given in respect to the sign of Jonas. Christ fulfilled it. He informs us it’s an evil generation (the generation of Adam as natural converted men) they do seek after them . Signs are for those who believe not , while prophecy ( the word of God) is for those who do believe to the salvation of their soul.
This does not mean a person is not a believer just that the sign thing must be done away with,I believe. For we walk by faith (Christ's, the unseen ) not by sight, that which we, and other see.
No new revelations.
Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Dear God4me, thank you for respond. the verses you quotet for the baptism with the Holy Spirit as seperate expierience to the rebirth, are not shown in Acts 8, 14-17, and Acts 19,2,
Like Acts 2 and acts 10 these reports will show the authority of Gods word regarding that the Gospel for all mankind.
Acts 2, 2 ff shows the Jews, that Jesus was right and he sent the paraklet. in Acts 2, 14 ff Perter explains this
Acts 8, 14-17 shows that the gospel is for the samaritians, too
Acts 10,44 ff shows the Jews that the Gospel is also for the Nations
Acts 19, 2 ff shows the 12 disciples of John the baptist, that the Gospel is for thm, too.
This reports are obvious written down to reveal Gods plan with all people. For to create from this verses a doctrine of baptising with the Holy Spirit you have to put some own thoughts in. But that is not what the bible teaches.
Maybe you are baptized in the Spirit and have spoken in tongues in the past at the moment you received it. When I received the Holy Spirit baptism with fire I did not know anything about receiving it or what had happened or what speaking in tongues was. Only later I found myself prone to speak in tongues also without knowing what it was. Later in my conversion process and learning about God and about receiving the Holy Spirit I did not think I had received it yet but God later showed me that I already had and had been speaking in tongues without knowing what it was about.
The Holy Spirit is still upon men that have not received the baptism and leads them unto conversion and to receive the new birth of the Spirit. Don't make the mistake of thinking the baptism of the Spirit is some new doctrine only exclusive to the pentecostal movement or charismatic movements. It is universal for every believer and always have since the day of Pentecost. Christ already told us there are few that are going to be saved because strait and narrow is the gate that leads to life and few there be that finds it. And broad is the way to destruction and many there be that go in there at. Just as in the time of Jesus when there were many different sects and doctrines and beliefs, so it is today with all the different movements and denominations. Those not teaching the true way of receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit with Fire and with evidence of speaking in tongues upon receiving it have formed their own doctrine of man to justify they not having it. It is as simple as that. Don't take my words for it, go into the scripture and see for yourself and believe in what it say and not mans opinion about it. Be like the Bereans and search out the scripture to see if it be so (Acts 17:11). Shalom.
Tongues are a sign to those who do not believe. (no faith in God ) Prophecy the revealed will of God for those who do believe according to the faith of Christ.
God is no longer bringing new prophecy. What we had in part up till the last book ( Revelation) today we have the whole perfect will of God.It is sealed up till the end of time.
It is a evil generation (the generation of Adam) that does seek after a sign or any manner..
Tongues are not a work we can do to get our saved or witness we are. .Peter spoke in his native tongue. God interpreted it into the language know. It was prophecy, the gospel....3000 men from many different nation received eternal life.
Tongues is the work God does to give the person His understandings . It is not attributed to Peter or any man.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them “that believe”, but “to them that believe not”: but “prophesying serveth not for them that believe not , but “for them which believe”.
God is no longer bringing new prophecy. What we had in part up till the last book ( Revelation) today we have the whole perfect will of God.It is sealed up till the end of time.
It is a evil generation (the generation of Adam) that does seek after a sign or any manner..
Tongues are not a work we can do to get our saved or witness we are. .Peter spoke in his native tongue. God interpreted it into the language know. It was prophecy, the gospel....3000 men from many different nation received eternal life.
Tongues is the work God does to give the person His understandings . It is not attributed to Peter or any man.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them “that believe”, but “to them that believe not”: but “prophesying serveth not for them that believe not , but “for them which believe”.
The tongues were given to the disciples to speak in different languages, so those from all over could hear about the wonderful works of God. Peter was speaking to the Jews, from Judaea and Jerusalem, Acts 2: 14, So God didn't need to interpret what Peter said, Otherwise that would mean that God gave sinners a Spiritual gift, and Jesus said the world, [Unbelievers] can't receive the Holy Ghost. Jn 14: 17.
As for tongues being a sign for unbelievers, It doesn't mean they would understand when someone is speaking in tongues, As 1 Cor 14: 2, & v 21-22. The meaning of, "Hear Me", in v21, is the same as "No man will understand", in v2.
There are at least six operations of tongues that are recorded in the Bible.
[1]Tongues that are a foreign language, Acts 2: 4--11.
[2]Tongues that are for interpreting, 1 Cor 12: 10, & v30, This operation is one of the gifts of the Spirit, and not everyone will have this gift, V 10, & v30.
[3]Tongues that are mysteries, 1 Cor 14: 2. [A Mystery is a hidden secret]. Not hidden from us, But hidden for us. And one way to get the revelation of the mystery, is when you speak in tongues, you can pray for the interpretation, 1 Cor 14: 13.
Another way of knowing the mysteries, is, By Praying in the Holy Ghost,[And that would include praying in tongues]
Eph 5: 17--18.
[4]Tongues that build us up. 1 Cor 14: 4, Jude 20.
[5]Tongues that we can use to praise God, 1 Cor 14: 15--17.
[6]Tongues that is our spirit uses to pray, 1 Cor 14: 14--15,
[This could be tongues of Angels, 1 Cor 13: 1. or the Holy Spirit interceding either for us, or through us for someone else, or some situation Rom 8: 26--28], To make all things work for our good.