He that turns his ear from hearing the law...

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KohenMatt said:
God Himself said the Law isn't that difficult to keep.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it."
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Here, Paul's gonna help you out......


Romans 10:6-8

"But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”(that is, to bring Christ down)“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim"
 


There never has been anyone that was sinless in respect to the Law and especially in respect to the righteousness of God which only comes through faith in Christ alone - NOT in keeping the Law - that is self-righteousness.

Romans 3:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested,being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets
,
[SUP]22 [/SUP] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

[SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.

It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This is an anti-Christ belief system religion which has the "appearance" of good but it is really denying the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work. Hebrews 4:10
 
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Grace777x70 said:


There never has been anyone that was sinless in respect to the Law
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The purpose of the law was to enable people to walk righteously before God,
and find forgiveness for sins through sacrifice.

The law literally ran a whole nation, Israel.

And the above statement is a lie. Paul says he was blameless according to the law.
The rich young man kept the law who came to Christ.

But keeping the law is not enough to know God.
And that is the whole point.

But if you feel the law is just an impossible mark and you excuse sin
as something impossible to deal with you end up with hyper-grace heresy.
 
The rich young ruler broke the very first commandment. " You shall have no other gods before Me." He had money as his god as Jesus proved.

Jesus exposed that the rich young ruler had indeed broken the very 1st commandment despite that "he thought" he had kept the commandments. Jesus always exposes the self-righteous mindset to bring them to Himself so that they can truly live.

This happens a lot with self-righteous mindsets - they "think" they are righteous but when Jesus shows up - we find out that there are none righteous - no , not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

There is a difference between being "blameless" and being "sinless" in regards to Law.

Even Paul said that he was "blameless" when it came to the Law but Paul was unrighteous when it came to God's righteousness. He found out that he was still coveting even though he said he was blameless. Romans 7:7-8

Philippians 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9[/SUP] and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,


This very thing happens every time to the religious self-righteous mindset. They think they are walking in righteousness because of their humanistic thinking but they are really sinning when compared with Christ's righteousness.
 
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Grace777x70 said:
The rich young ruler broke the very first commandment. " You shall have no other gods before Me." He had money as his god as Jesus proved.
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Only a real legalist would use this argument above.

Let me go through the points step by step.
The Lord is standing before you. The one who gives forgiveness of sins and eternal life
but more is God, with whom friendship and intimacy is possible.

Yet wealth is your security, bails you out when things get tough.
And the source of your worship and praise is asking you to follow.
If you truly knew who and what God is, you would dump it all and follow.

The law is just a set of rules, dry, marks in the sand. But a living relationship is
what it is all about. Obviously the rich young man did not recognise Christ and saw
everything as a series of barriers to cross rather than the joy of all he desired was
before him.

This is the whole point, not he actually was a sinner because money was his god.
Money was his security, but that does not make it his god. If money as a security
is making money a god, then everything in society is wrong, and we should not own
anything. But I know that is not the ethic people are suggesting here.
 
"For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". It's amazing how the self-righteous think that this doesn't apply to us.

Anything any one of us has our security instead of the Lord is breaking the first commandment. We can humanistically try to skirt it - but the truth still remains the same.

When we choose money over the Lord - it is breaking the first commandment of the law of Moses which is what the ruler was boasting in when he said that he had done all these from his youth. The rich young ruler went away sad - because he had great wealth.

Jesus said - " One thing you lack....go and sell all.." The rich young ruler thought he had kept the commandments but in reality - he didn't. The self-righteous will always find this truth out when they have a talk with Jesus.

There is sometimes a sin behind the obvious sin. For example: If I steal food from a store. That is a sin called stealing but behind this sinning is the real sin of unbelief that my Father will take care of me and thus I am taking things into my own hands. This means that I am trusting in myself and NOT in our loving Father.
 
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Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abijah: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

by two or three witnesses a matter will be established.
 
There is a vast difference between being "blameless" in the law and in having the righteousness of God in Christ - which is what is needed for us. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - and yes....every follower of the law of Moses is in that same boat with all of humanity.

( Abraham did NOT keep the law of Moses - it wasn't given to yet - it simply means Abraham believed what God said - Abraham had a covenant of grace)

There is a vast difference between the keeping the law for righteousness and receiving the gift of Christ's righteousness by faith - and not in keeping the law of Moses.



Romans 3:21-24 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

[SUP]22 [/SUP] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

[SUP]24 [/SUP] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;


Philippians 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

by two or three witnesses a matter will be established.


There is a higher truth that comes from Christ Himself then comes from the law of Moses. The Law demands - grace provides in Christ only.

Here is an example: This is a truth but it is NOT the truth. Jesus trumps this truth below.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
 
I knew you would make that claim, if the scripture says blameless but doesn't mean it in the context of that verse can you please show me elsewhere that same Koine greek word is used in a different context?

frankly peoples opinions and suppositions are not valid (whether your or mine) but rather the proper study of scripture as its written not as it is interpreted by ones own theology on what it needs to say.
 
PeterJens said:
The purpose of the law was to enable people to walk righteously before God,
and find forgiveness for sins through sacrifice.
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Completely and utterly wrong....

The reason for the Law was to show man his need for the Savior...The Law showed man his SIN and his need for a Savior. The power of SIN is the Law

Gal 3.24: Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Romans 3.20: because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

1 Cor 15.56: The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
 
eph610 said:
Completely and utterly wrong....

The reason for the Law was to show man his need for the Savior...The Law showed man his SIN and his need for a Savior. The power of SIN is the Law

Gal 3.24: Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Romans 3.20: because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

1 Cor 15.56: The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
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It's crucial to go back to the Law and read God's words at the time to see why He gave it. It helps bring Paul's words into a better clarity.
 
KohenMatt said:
It's crucial to go back to the Law and read God's words at the time to see why He gave it. It helps bring Paul's words into a better clarity.
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so if one does not first study the law they cannot be saved?

what is so difficult about believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your house will be saved?

see, I HAVE studied the law and I understand it well...which is why I KNOW that is not an obligation

did all the Gentiles who came to Christ during Paul's mission trips have to first study the law?

10For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[SUP]e[/SUP]

11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[SUP]f[/SUP]12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[SUP]g[/SUP]

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[SUP]h[/SUP]

14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. Galatiains 3


there is no mystery as to why God gave the law...ANY part of it!

there is one thing though, that lawkeepers REFUSE to acknowledge...the law was but a SHADOW of the real thing...it was a shadow...it was never meant to save anyone...if it was meant to save, why did Jesus have to die?

I can only conclude that spirits of deception have led many astray to think for one moment that anyone can do more or add to the completed work of Christ


 
KohenMatt said:
It's crucial to go back to the Law and read God's words at the time to see why He gave it. It helps bring Paul's words into a better clarity.
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No it is not crucial because Paul received direct revelation about the New Covenant from Jesus Christ himself, you know, the guy who Fulfilled the Law perfectly....so we did not or do not have to.

It is only crucial to those that sense the nearly to good to be true Gospel is not enough for them...
 
LaurenTM said:
so if one does not first study the law they cannot be saved?

what is so difficult about believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your house will be saved?

see, I HAVE studied the law and I understand it well...which is why I KNOW that is not an obligation

did all the Gentiles who came to Christ during Paul's mission trips have to first study the law?

10For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[SUP]e[/SUP]

11Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[SUP]f[/SUP]12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[SUP]g[/SUP]

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[SUP]h[/SUP]

14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. Galatiains 3


there is no mystery as to why God gave the law...ANY part of it!

there is one thing though, that lawkeepers REFUSE to acknowledge...the law was but a SHADOW of the real thing...it was a shadow...it was never meant to save anyone...if it was meant to save, why did Jesus have to die?

I can only conclude that spirits of deception have led many astray to think for one moment that anyone can do more or add to the completed work of Christ
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Did I mention anything about being saved? No.
 
KohenMatt said:
God Himself said the Law isn't that difficult to keep.

Deuteronomy 30:11-14
“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it."
Click to expand...



Which is why so many throughout time have been so successful at keeping it, right?



Has it ever occurred to you that God was chiding the Israelites who boasted, "We will do all God commands" before even hearing what He would require?


The Law was given for these purposes:


  • Because of Israel's grumbling - even in the very midst of God's complete protection of them, they thought they could do it better, so God gave the Law to show them what their efforts would produce.
  • To set Israel apart, though for millennia God had managed to keep Hebrews/Israel a unique nation even in slavery in Egypt. The Law gave Israel the opportunity to do it for themselves. How did that work out for them? Only by God's grace and for HIS purposes was Israel preserved.
  • To show us our sin (and our self-righteousness)
  • To stir up sin (the power of sin is the Law - 1 Cor. 15:56)


So, KohenMatt, the Fall Feast is coming up - a pilgrimage Feast according to the Law. Will you be going to Jerusalem in obedience to the Law? I hear it's lovely there this time of year!

No excuses, now, after all, it is not too difficult for you, right?

-JGIG
 
KohenMatt said:
Did I mention anything about being saved? No.
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well don't you think you should?

this is a Christian site, right?

it's ALL ABOUT SALVATION and life in Christ, right?

this is not a law keeping site

this is not a Hebrew Roots site

this is not a Jewish site

this is not about replacing Christ with the 10 commandments

you are not able to defend your post, so you make a snarky answer

got it
 
JGIG said:


Has it ever occurred to you that God was chiding the Israelites who boasted, "We will do all God commands" before even hearing what He would require?
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Did God ever say He gave the Law in a chiding way? Or is that a made up motivation? Where is the Scripture that supports this motivation?

Was Israel really being arrogant when they said they would do whatever God would eventually tell them to do? Don't we do that when we enter into a saving relationship with Jesus; that we will always follow Him, no matter what He tells us to do?
JGIG said:
The Law was given for these purposes:


  • Because of Israel's grumbling - even in the very midst of God's complete protection of them, they thought they could do it better, so God gave the Law to show them what their efforts would produce.
  • To set Israel apart, though for millennia God had managed to keep Hebrews/Israel a unique nation even in slavery in Egypt. The Law gave Israel the opportunity to do it for themselves. How did that work out for them? Only by God's grace and for HIS purposes was Israel preserved.
  • To show us our sin (and our self-righteousness)
  • To stir up sin (the power of sin is the Law - 1 Cor. 15:56)
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Any Old Testament Scriptures to support these purposes?
JGIG said:
So, KohenMatt, the Fall Feast is coming up - a pilgrimage Feast according to the Law. Will you be going to Jerusalem in obedience to the Law? I hear it's lovely there this time of year!

No excuses, now, after all, it is not too difficult for you, right?

-JGIG
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Where did God Israel to celebrate the feasts?
 
LaurenTM said:
well don't you think you should?

this is a Christian site, right?

it's ALL ABOUT SALVATION and life in Christ, right?

this is not a law keeping site

this is not a Hebrew Roots site

this is not a Jewish site

this is not about replacing Christ with the 10 commandments

you are not able to defend your post, so you make a snarky answer

got it
Click to expand...

I know exactly how I'm saved, and it has nothing to do with the Law.

So when your post talked about the Law in context of salvation, I simply pointed out that I have never equated the Law with salvation.
 
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