Healing from God

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PaulThomson said:
Your statement was a response to the OP where @pinebeach wrote -

Clearly, @pinebeach was not meaning that there is some doctrine out there that no one, Christian or non-Christian, will ever be sick. @pinebeach seems to be referring to the doctrine that guarantees that everyone who trusts Jesus for healing will be healed, whether Christian or non-Christian.

In that context, your comment -

- implied that "You are quite right regarding healing not being guaranteed to those who are trusting Jesus for it, whether Christian or non-Christian.
The only thing God guarantees to those trusting Jesus for something, is physical death and ultimate justice..."

However, those trusting Jesus for translation at His coming are guaranteed never to die; and those trusting Jesus for mercy are guaranteed that mercy will triumph over the ultimate justice they deserve; and there are other things that God guarantees to those trusting Jesus for them, such as wisdom, rewards for deeds done in His service, authority over demons for those who submit to His authority, etc.

So, I don't think your aphorism was correct.
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Well, of course salvation is guaranteed for all believers, but physical healing is not.
PB said "I do not find in the Bible where everyone is guaranteed healing", and I agreed,
so I do not stand corrected but rather confused by your interpretation of what was said.
 
pinebeach said:
I came across the WOF/prosperity theology years back after growing up in a church that taught nothing on the gifts but I was saved in that church and water baptized in that church. I attended a series of meetings in a Pentecostal church and ran into the WOF stuff and name it and claim it. Very bad experience.
I don't know if speaking in tongues is really a sign for being filled? I would say I have known people who were filled for sure but did not speak in tongues. One thing for sure, the Holy Spirit does not create assembly line believers. I agree about doctrines.

Thanks
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The most spiritual man I ever met did not speak in tongues. I used to but I don't anymore. My wife does still. I have no problem with that. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being filled. The baptism is instantaneous and is for spiritual power. Being filled is, or should be, an ongoing experience.

According to one Greek scholar I read, Ephesians 5:18 should read "be being filled....." The Amplified puts it this way: "Do not get drunk with wine, for that is wickedness (corruption, stupidity), but be filled with the [Holy] Spirit and constantly guided by Him."

The Corinthian church was also the gifted church. Yet Paul rebuked them as being immature and disorderly. He would be horrified at what goes on in some places today. Gifts are not the same as fruit. Gifts can be counterfeited (Mark 13:22); fruit cannot.
 
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GWH said:
Well, of course salvation is guaranteed for all believers, but physical healing is not.
PB said "I do not find in the Bible where everyone is guaranteed healing", and I agreed,
so I do not stand corrected but rather confused by your interpretation of what was said.
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Salvation is guaranteed to all who fulfil the condition God has set for receiving it. The same applies to deliverance, daily needs, forgiveness of sins and healing. All the promises of God in Christ are yea and amen. The devil does bait and switch, promising bread and giving a stone; promising an egg and giving a scorpion. Jas 1:13-15 Lust promises pleasure and life but produces sin and death.

But with God there is no variableness and shadow of turning. When He promises X, He gives X, under the terms He has set.

Jas 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no ficklenes (parallagE) , neither shadow of turning (tropE).
 
Gideon300 said:
The most spiritual man I ever met did not speak in tongues. I used to but I don't anymore. My wife does still. I have no problem with that. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being filled. The baptism is instantaneous and is for spiritual power. Being filled is, or should be, an ongoing experience.

According to one Greek scholar I read, Ephesians 5:18 should read "be being filled....." The Amplified puts it this way: "Do not get drunk with wine, for that is wickedness (corruption, stupidity), but be filled with the [Holy] Spirit and constantly guided by Him."

The Corinthian church was also the gifted church. Yet Paul rebuked them as being immature and disorderly. He would be horrified at what goes on in some places today. Gifts are not the same as fruit. Gifts can be counterfeited (Mark 13:22); fruit cannot.
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Yes, the actual language interpretation would be 'be being filled'. It seems the Corinthian church misused the gift of tongues and that was not the only thing going on. People like to cite that as meaning no more tongues, but Paul also says 'do not forbid speaking in tongues' which would certainly put many churches today in need of correction and admonishment. And right, gifts and fruit are not the same.
 
GWH said:
Well, of course salvation is guaranteed for all believers, but physical healing is not.
PB said "I do not find in the Bible where everyone is guaranteed healing", and I agreed,
so I do not stand corrected but rather confused by your interpretation of what was said.
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I would agree that your disbelief and dismissal of most if not all, things sprititual is well documented throughout the forum.
In your own words no less. My op was never about who does not believe in God healing today but you had to advise us that you are among the many who have ceased to believe parts of the New Testament. Your desire appears to be to smudge out and dismiss anyone who does not share your bias. There is no 'of course'. There is you of course and we would expect no less, although it is interesting that you being such an adherent of all things Paul, would dismiss half of what he writes.
 
pinebeach said:
Why are you asking ---DON"T YOU LIKE AI -----:ROFL: seems to spout out some good spiritual knowledge in my view -----

Artificial intelligence + artifical answers = this type of response apparently
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Funny you brought up AI. There’s actually a user on this forum who goes by studier that’s been accusing others of using AI for months. Turns out, he was using it himself the whole time. You can’t make this stuff up. Check out post #1092 in the thread — it’s all right there.

Numbers 32:23 (KJV) — “your sins will find you out.” certainly applied in this situation!

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...regeneration-view.220967/page-55#post-5617213
 
pinebeach said:
Five pages is alot. If you do go back and read some of the posts you will find people really approach or think about healing in different ways. I am not WOF but have no problem with anyone talking about or whatever. I do have a problem with someone shooting scripture at others and acting like if we do not agree with their post then we are without faith. If people did not have questions about healing, as I do myself, that would be one thing. But to just dismiss everyone and ignore that is not very helpful.

You are not doing that and I don't disagree that God heals. I have questions for someone saying God always heals and if He does not, then you must be doing something wrong.
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My self when I listen to what others believe be it Baptist, Catholic WoF AOC Pent etc. I found I need to believe it I need to know that I know that I know. What might help ... My dad died :) bone cancer mom remarried and he got cancer. If you ever saw him you know know he had great faith always had his bible and never doubted yet died of cancer I was there. What no one saw heard was just me and him driving he stops the car and just .. cries saying he didn't think he will ever be healed. If I take that to Gods word God said if we doubt let not that man think he will get anything from GOD. I can't enplane why God touches heals that that have no faith.. yet He is amazing. Yet He sees the heart no the flesh.

Christ said if we had faith the size of a mustard seed.. that is so small yet that MTN has to do what we say has to obey us. Faith the substance of things hopped for the evidence of things not seen. Christ what so ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it. Again faith is the substance of things hopped for the evidence of things not seen. Yet what have to back up.. love has to the there first love before faith "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. "

If I was to just post the people I know and loved ones that died from some kind of sickness.. is that my proof God does not heal? Those that teach faith .... so many of them get attacked made fun of but they know faith. My point is I walk by faith I live by faith I am not moved by what I see or hear of right now for a few months what I feel. I only speak what I know. For me in the end do I believe do I know what He said what He promised not any man/woman believe for what moves God fact the only way to please Him is with Faith..love has to come before that. Life hits us all.. when it comes no matter how bad how dark it gets if we try to stand on our own we will fall. But we must be walking living this.. so many .. so many wait till the last moment to try to have faith. So who do I believe that preacher that makes a really great case GOD did it...or the other where GOD did not do it.. In the end I myself have to find the truth. I am not moved by what I see. Like when you pray for something you don't just find one verse to stand on.. you find many as you can..

Sorry.. this is not some group some denomination I am talking about. its not ISM its His word. You find what He said what HE promised.. I had all the blessing in Deu read at my wedding. Not because some man or group said whatever.. No.. those were my Fathers words and I Iaaic was I am the Child or Promise. Peter and John after that man was healed after all that did what "when back to their own". Get what those who ever that know walk live by love and faith. So all that to say I can not answer your question. Like the sone playing "Because of JESUS". Put your eyes on Him and His word.. don't look back
 
LightBearer316 said:
Funny you brought up AI. There’s actually a user on this forum who goes by studier that’s been accusing others of using AI for months. Turns out, he was using it himself the whole time. You can’t make this stuff up. Check out post #1092 in the thread — it’s all right there.

Numbers 32:23 (KJV) — “your sins will find you out.” certainly applied in this situation!

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...regeneration-view.220967/page-55#post-5617213
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I didn't bring it up. Someone used AI for reference. I was taken aback.
 
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Blade said:
In the end I myself have to find the truth. I am not moved by what I see. Like when you pray for something you don't just find one verse to stand on.. you find many as you can..
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Pretty much how I am thinking about it. Thanks
 
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