Hebrews 10:26-31

[Ralph-]

...you cannot deny there are errors in MacArthur's teachings if he denies that salvation is easy.

"they returned to Lystra, Iconium and Antioch, 22strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said."-Acts 14:21-22

 

[LW97]

"they returned to Lystra, Iconium and Antioch, 22strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said."-Acts 14:21-22

The Pharisees didn't know better.

[h=1]Acts 15:10-17 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.[/FONT]

 

[LW97]

"Easy believism" is using reductionist thinking as a method to attack the simple Gospel of Christ Jesus which is a gift to all who personally believe in Jesus and what He has accomplished through His death and resurrection.

Repentance in the Lordship salvation doctrine is turning from sin, the call to repentance in the scripture is a call to changes one mind from trying to save themselves via good works or the law to Jesus who is Savior to all who personally believe in what He has accomplished for them.

The lordship salvation doctrine adds works (turn from sin) to conversion and also promotes that works must be evident (at all times) to demonstrate conversion.

Yeah, that is true. Not saying all Lordshippers are lost tho.

 

[Ralph-]

Repentance in the Lordship salvation doctrine is turning from sin, the call to repentance in the scripture is a call to changes one mind from trying to save themselves via good works or the law to Jesus who is Savior to all who personally believe in what He has accomplished for them.

Which includes turning from sin.


"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds."-Acts 26:20


Repentance means changing your mind about righteousness, sin, and the Judgment to come and growing up into a new life that demonstrates that change of mind. No change of life, generally speaking, indicates no change of mind.

The lordship salvation doctrine adds works (turn from sin) to conversion

No.
It says that if Christ is not Lord, as evidenced by your obedience to him as Lord, then you are not converted. This is a basic tenant of Calvinism. Which most Christians agree with......I mean used to agree with. Free/Hyper grace is winning the day now and excusing unrepentant sin in the so-called believer. Obedience is now you trying to save yourself, while living in your old unchanged life is you trusting God for salvation. We're in a very sad place........just before the return of Christ. This is the great falling away, IMO.

and also promotes that works must be evident (at all times) to demonstrate conversion.

No, not at all times. Conversion is demonstrated in one's spiritual progress.

The saved person must be growing up into ever increasing deeds of the Spirit as the expected outcome of one who is a new creation in Christ. The person who is not growing up into Christ and is still living unchanged in their old life is, ultimately, showing that they are not born again and are not a new creation in Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well, on the Gospel. (Acts 16:31)

Do you think changing one's mind about the good news of Christ without turning from sin will save a person?

Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out, Acts 3:19​

 

[UnderGrace]

In no way would I ever intend such an idea, I believe people who have come to personal saving belief in the work of Christ are in every denomination

The concern for me is that the doctrine lays a lot guilt where there should not be any, it is the love of Jesus that sets us free, abiding/resting in Him is our peace and freedom from sin, the Gospel is not a doctrine of the "Taming of the Shrew" in some non comedic rendition, sometimes it seems like that is what it becomes.

Yeah, that is true. Not saying all Lordshippers are lost tho.

 

[LW97]

Which includes turning from sin.


"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds."-Acts 26:20

They SHOULD do good works BECAUSE of salvation, not FOR salvation.

 

[LW97]

Do you think changing one's mind about the good news of Christ without turning from sin will save a person?

Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out, Acts 3:19​

Yes, because if we had to turn from sins, then the focus would be on us.

 

[UnderGrace]

One cannot change their mind without realizing that they cannot save themselves, and they will know the reason that they cannot save themselves is because of the sin issue that is present, turning from sin is not what saves, what saves is believing fully and completely in the work of Christ on a personal level.

Many turn from sin all the time, how does that save apart from the work/righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer?

Do you think changing one's mind about the good news of Christ without turning from sin will save a person?

Therefore repent and turn back, so that your sins may be blotted out, Acts 3:19​

 

[LW97]

One cannot change their mind without realizing that they cannot save themselves, and they will know the reason that they cannot save themselves is because of the sin issue that is present, turning from sin is not what saves, what saves is believing fully and completely in the work of Christ on a personal level.

Many turn from sin all the time, how does that save apart from the work/righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer?

Correct, what MUST do is to realize we are sinners who already blew it with our righteouss.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, because if we had to turn from sins, then the focus would be on us.

You're getting into the neo-gnostic, dissociative identity thing - form two identities, one good, one bad, identify with the good identity while ignoring/discarding the bad one.

 

[LW97]

You're getting into the neo-gnostic, dissociative identity thing - form two identities, one good, one bad, identify with the good identity while ignoring/discarding the bad one.

The change of life comes after salvation, not with salvation.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

One cannot change their mind without realizing that they cannot save themselves, and they will know the reason that they cannot save themselves is because of the sin issue that is present, turning from sin is not what saves, what saves is believing fully and completely in the work of Christ on a personal level.

Many turn from sin all the time, how does that save apart from the work/righteousness of Christ imputed to the believer?

Do the many people you speak of really turn from sin, or do they turn from things that man calls sin?

 

[LW97]

Do the many people you speak of really turn from sin, or do they turn from things that man calls sin?

Both in many ways

 

[UnderGrace]

Well those that follow a works based salvation do both from my experience, according to various definitions of sin that are out there in the world.

Do the many people you speak of really turn from sin, or do they turn from things that man calls sin?

 

[Nehemiah6]

...turning from sin is not what saves, what saves is believing fully and completely in the work of Christ on a personal level.

So you are in effect denying the necessity of repentance in order to be saved, even though God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and the first words out of the mouth of Christ were "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt 4:17).

Refusing to preach repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21) has now become the norm in evangelical churches. But that is a FALSE GOSPEL.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well those that follow a works based salvation do both from my experience, according to various definitions of sin that are out there in the world.

Turning from what GOD calls sin can only bless a person because GOD's spirit within a person will be pleased.

Turning from things that men call sin won't give persons that same peace because they are following traditions of men.

It seems that you are conflating the two and calling it works based salvation, where in reality only the latter one is.

 

[LW97]

So you are in effect denying the necessity of repentance in order to be saved, even though God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and the first words out of the mouth of Christ were "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt 4:17).

Refusing to preach repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21) has now become the norm in evangelical churches. But that is a FALSE GOSPEL.

She is NOT denying repentance. Not at all, she is teaching true repentance, and that is a change of mind, according to the Greek

 

[LW97]

Turning from what GOD calls sin can only bless a person because GOD's spirit within a person will be pleased.

Turning from things that men call sin won't give persons that same peace because they are following traditions of men.

It seems that you are conflating the two and calling it works based salvation, where in reality only the latter one is.

Yeah, but we only must repent once. If you say a saved person will not backslide, then it's indeed a works based salvation.

 

[UnderGrace]

We have been here before I believe on another thread.....and I posted the historical shift in understanding the word repentance.

We are born again in Christ when we change our mind (repent) (metanoia)
and believe on Jesus the Christ for salvation.

We are not saved by..... stopping our sin.... feeling bad about our sins or repenting as in having remorse, I do think these will come with the new life in Christ but they are not what saves.

It is Jesus who saves not our feelings but exercising our belief and trust in His finished work for salvation as a gift to us.

If I find that link I will post it again.

So you are in effect denying the necessity of repentance in order to be saved, even though God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and the first words out of the mouth of Christ were "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt 4:17).

Refusing to preach repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21) has now become the norm in evangelical churches. But that is a FALSE GOSPEL.