Hell, Sheol, Hades...

TheDivineWatermark · Feb 23, 2023

... and just to add to my previous post, "the end of this age [singular]" (as you say ^ [top]) is NOT what follows on from the GWTj time-slot (when death and hell/hades are cast into the lake of fire).

Instead, what follows on from that point is (only) "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" (see my previous post on that phrase, used 21x in Scripture, always meaning the SAME thing).

What I'm pointing out from the text itself (not what you've stated is supposedly in the text, but ISN'T) is TRUTH.

this ^ is NOWHERE stated in the text! It is FALSE to claim that it is.

TheDivineWatermark · Feb 23, 2023

^ I do realize that many people incorrectly CONFLATE the phrases "the end of the age [singular] / the end of this age [singular]" with that of "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"... but they are very distinct phrases (and meanings)... and I suggest they study out the phrase (used 21x - https://christianchat.com/threads/hell-sheol-hades.206073/post-5024826 ) "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" (as it is used in Rev20:10 at the GWTj time-slot--not the other phrase)

Nehemiah6 · Feb 23, 2023

Aaron56 said:

It was already explained that Sheol/Hades is NOT Gehenna/the Lake of Fire/Eternal Hell. So those are not the qualities of Sheol/Hades.

Aaron56 · Feb 23, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

The age to come is after Christ delivers up the kingdom to the Father. At that time all enemies are subjugated and the last enemy, death, is destroyed. The standard for the age to come is this: God will be all in all.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

The "eternal conscious torment" people believe that God is in the demons and the evil people burning in the fire. How silly. In the age to come there is only God, as all will be all in Him.

Like I said, understanding takes wisdom and discernment, not Hermeneutics and a degree in Greek.

Just repent and put that doctrine behind you. It doesn't hold water except in angry Baptist/holiness churches that are scared of dancing and of any material but denim.

Aaron56 · Feb 23, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Hell is destroyed in the Lake of Fire. It is not eternal.

TheDivineWatermark · Feb 23, 2023

Aaron56 said:

Disagree.

"the age [SINGULAR] to come" is what we commonly call "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age" (commencing upon His RETURN to the earth Rev19--so PRECEDING the GWTj time-slot!);

"age [singular]" is connected with earth-time (for lack of a better way of saying it, atm). THAT does not FOLLOW the GWTj time-slot!

So, when Jesus RETURNS in Rev19, "the 1000 yrs" FOLLOWS that point (and is what is termed "the age [singular] to come"), and that the END of that is when Christ "delivers up the kingdom to the Father" (1Cor15:24-26); some problems enter when (like the "Amill-teachings" insist) 1Cor15:24a's "THEN [eita] the end" is INcorrectly interpreted to be saying "THEN [IMMEDIATELY] the end" (it doesn't)...

"THEN [eita]" (used in v.24a) is a SEQUENCE word with NO time-element attached to it, so this last item in the LIST (of this passage) is perfectly fine being 1000 years after the previously LISTED item (in this passage), and 3000 years after the first item LISTED (v.20).
The word is SEQUENTIAL (it is NOT suggesting "THEN [IMMEDIATELY] the end," but "THEN [SEQUENTIALLY] the end"--referring to the END of the MK age [1000 yrs] which commences upon His RETURN to the earth in Rev19). I'm not suggesting YOU interpret this text in the way the "Amill-teachings" do (I don't know what you believe about this text), I'm just pointing out the problems some have with it...

Aaron56 · Feb 23, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

Disagree.

"the age [SINGULAR] to come" is what we commonly call "the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age" (commencing upon His RETURN to the earth Rev19--so PRECEDING the GWTj time-slot!);

"age [singular]" is connected with earth-time (for lack of a better way of saying it, atm). THAT does not FOLLOW the GWTj time-slot!

So, when Jesus RETURNS in Rev19, "the 1000 yrs" FOLLOWS that point (and is what is termed "the age [singular] to come"), and that the END of that is when Christ "delivers up the kingdom to the Father" (1Cor15:24-26); some problems enter when (like the "Amill-teachings" insist) 1Cor15:24a's "THEN [eita] the end" is INcorrectly interpreted to be saying "THEN [IMMEDIATELY] the end" (it doesn't)...

"THEN [eita]" (used in v.24a) is a SEQUENCE word with NO time-element attached to it, so this last item in the LIST (of this passage) is perfectly fine being 1000 years after the previously LISTED item (in this passage), and 3000 years after the first item LISTED (v.20).
The word is SEQUENTIAL (it is NOT suggesting "THEN [IMMEDIATELY] the end," but "THEN [SEQUENTIALLY] the end"--referring to the END of the MK age [1000 yrs] which commences upon His RETURN to the earth in Rev19). I'm not suggesting YOU interpret this text in the way the "Amill-teachings" do (I don't know what you believe about this text), I'm just pointing out the problems some have with it...

The age to come is during the time of the new heaven and new earth.

TheDivineWatermark · Feb 23, 2023

Aaron56 said:

Well, if you believe the "NHNE" starts at the beginning of the MK age [aka 'the age [singular] to come'], I won't argue with you.

But if you believe it starts at the GWTj (which time-slot comes AFTER the MK age / 'age [singular] to come') then you are CONFLATING the terms "the age [singular] to come" with "[unto] the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" (entirely distinct phrases with entirely distinct meanings and application).

There are many phrases (using this "age / ages" word) which are distinct in meaning, in the ways they are written out.

You've done what many ppl do, in not distinguishing these, when they incorrectly place the phrase "[until] the end of this age [singular]" in Rev20, where it is NOT used, and does NOT say, there (and MEANS a completely distinct thing).

Words matter (coz they MEAN certain things). = )

Magenta · Feb 23, 2023

Cameron143 said:

God is a consuming fire. The bush did not burn? Why? Was He showing Moses His wrath? No, no He was not.

Magenta · Feb 23, 2023

Mem said:

I agree. I answered them directly just yesterday and now they say nobody has answered
in order to justify their repetition of atheistic-based assumptions and questions.

Magenta · Feb 23, 2023

Mem said:

Death is given as the fate of the unrighteous over and over and over and over again from front to back
of the Bible, in a plethora of ways. Giving verses that say they perish (which is juxtaposed against the
life believers receive), is met with, oh, but utterly destroy does not really mean utterly destroy, and, but
perish is used in others ways also that don't mean an end to existence, as if context matters not a whit.

From beginning to end, Scripture proclaims that the wages of sin is death. The plain teaching of Scripture
is that life ever after is attained only by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.

But for some that makes no sense.

Cameron143 · Feb 23, 2023

Magenta said:

It establishes that God can work beyond the laws of physics. What to make of that people can decide for themselves.

Bruce_Leiter · Feb 23, 2023

GRACE_ambassador said:

...Paradise, and the grave

Precious friends, for our further preparation, this is submitted in love:

"
...A proper understanding of what the Bible teaches about Hell,
Sheol, Hades, and the Grave dispels confusion over what happens to
the soul at the time of physical death and guards against being led
astray by those teaching the false doctrines...

...There seems to be some confusion about the meaning of Hell and
who goes there because of the way the Hebrew word Sheol and the
Greek word Hades have been translated in our English Bibles. Since
this confusion has led some into an erroneous understanding of what
the Bible actually teaches about the intermediate state and the final
state of the dead, we think that it is important that we address this
subject...

Sheol is found in the Bible sixty-five times. It is translated “the pit”
three times, “the grave” thirty-one times, and “hell” thirty-one times.
Hades is used eleven times, being rendered “hell” ten times and “grave”
once.

Adding to the confusion is that two other words are also translated hell
in the New Testament. These are Tartarus, which is found once and
Gehenna, which is used twelve times.

The term “Hell” is commonly understood to mean a place of torment
where the souls of the wicked go after physical death. This is true.
However, because Hades in the New Testament and Sheol in the Old
are variously rendered hell or grave, there has been some misunder-
standing about what hell and the grave are. Before looking at these
words though, we should first give our attention to the Greek word
Gehenna...
"
(E Bedore)

IF you wish not dozens of Scriptures, word studies, and many
examples Concerning Truth, Then Please do not attempt This:

FULL study:

Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the grave (Part I)
Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the grave (Part II)

View attachment 241065

GRACE And Peace...

WillB · Feb 23, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

But that's not what the text states, actually.

It says that "death" and "hell/hades" are cast into the lake of fire at the same time-slot that Satan is cast into the lake of fire (that is, at the GWTj time-slot), and of Satan (not to mention the "beast [individual-man aspect]" and the "false prophet") it is said, at this point, "and THEY SHALL BE TORMENTED unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" [not "until the end of this age [singular]" as you suggest is stated in this context], which underlined phrase I've posted about in past posts, and will place one (quoted in part) here for the readers' review:

Post #238 (different thread) - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4677518

[quoting old post, in part]

My point is that ALL 21x TIMES THIS SPECIFIC PHRASE [in BLUE, below] IS USED, it always MEANS THE SAME THING:

[quoting from Post #196]

"unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" -

(what we call "forever" / "eternity" / "eternal" / endlessness, etc),

...found in the following verses [where the "blanks" are... fill them in with THIS specific phrase (not "age [singular]" which is distinct in meaning, from this)]:

--Galatians 1:5;
Philippians 4:20;
1 Timothy 1:17;
2 Timothy 4:18;
Hebrews 13:21
("[to Whom] be glory _____" ; "be honour and glory _____");

--1 Peter 4:11;
1 Peter 5:11;
Revelation 1:6
("to Him/Whom be glory/praise/dominion ____");

--Revelation 1:18;
Revelation 4:9;
Revelation 4:10;
Revelation 5:14;
Revelation 10:6;
Revelation 15:7
("I am alive ____" ; "[Him] Who/that liveth ____" ; "God, Who liveth ____");

--Revelation 5:13;
Revelation 7:12;
Revelation 11:15;
Revelation 22:5
("and unto the Lamb ___" ; "be unto our God ____" ; "and He shall reign ____" ; "and they shall reign ___");

[which ones of the above look to be saying something like "long-but-limited-time-period"??]

--and used in the 3 verses usually "under question":

Revelation 14:11 [regarding those who receive the mark and worship the beast and his image]; and...

Revelation 19:3 [regarding the judgment of "the great whore"]; and...

Revelation 20:10 [regarding "the devil" and where "the beast and the false prophet" already are/will have been for the 1000 yrs]

[21x TOTAL]

[end quoting from old post; more at link]

____________

A thousand years earlier, the "beast" and the "false prophet" were said to be "cast alive" into the lake of fire... and after the 1000 years, Satan is cast into (as is "death" and "hell/hades" at that point)... and then the text states (of the beast, the false prophet, AND Satan) "and THEY SHALL BE TORMENTED unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" (that's not "symbolic language" any more than the other 20x this phrase is used, in the passages listed out in the above post)

[ @WillB also ^ ]

If you cannot recognize that Revelation uses symbolic language and cannot understand that only those who are saved i.e. regenerated i.e born again will at a time yet FUTURE be granted IMMORTALITY and that those who aren't amongst the saved do NOT have immortal souls - then I cannot assist you in helping you to see what is evident.

Bruce_Leiter · Feb 23, 2023

Whether or not the references to hell are figurative, I'm not sure. However, I think that hell will be the absence of God's powerful presence and of all the means people have depended on for satisfaction and security. That, my friend, is a horrible hell, which is pictured as outer darkness AND sulfur fire.

oyster67 · Feb 23, 2023

Aaron56 said:

The problem is that "hell" is used to represent different things in different passages.
Mark 9:43
“And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:”

John146 · Feb 23, 2023

Aaron56 said:

Hell is destroyed? Or cast into the lake of fire? There is a difference…

Webers.Home · Feb 23, 2023

.
The homes I grew up in as a country boy had fireplaces and wood stoves.
They were very nice in the winter but I had to keep some distance between
them and myself because their radiant heat was too much to bear up close.

The rich man in the story told at Luke 16:19-31 is said to be in fire but not
said to be on fire like a human torch; and the flames aren't so dense that he
can't see Abraham and Lazarus: so I'm guessing the man is experiencing
discomfort from radiant heat rather than himself roasting like a pig on a spit.
Still; I wouldn't want to be in his circumstances till the end of even one day
let alone the end of an age: any age.
_

TheDivineWatermark · Feb 23, 2023

WillB said:

Well, I do recognize a FEW things:

--there is said to be "resurrection OF LIFE" AND "resurrection OF JUDGMENT" (distinct things, but each referring to "resurrection [G386]") - John 5:29... Why would the UNSAVED need to be associated in any way with [the word] "resurrection [G386 - which means 'A STANDING AGAIN' (that is, AFTER one has DIED)]"... and yet Jesus says this is so
(which AGREES with what we see in Rev20:13, where it says, "and death and hell/hades DELIVERED UP the DEAD which were in them");

--Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5a CORRESPONDS with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words used in Isa24:21-22[,23], in which text the TWO "PUNISH" words are SEPARATED by TIME (so that the FIRST "PUNISH" word used in Isa24:21-22 CORRESPONDS with the time surrounding Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19; whereas the SECOND "PUNISH" word [in Isa24:21-22], of two, CORRESPONDS with the LATER GWTj time-slot--Thus AGREEING also with what Rev19 and then Rev20 ALSO presents [i.e. TIME separating the TWO])--IOW, there are OTHER passages IN what one would call the LITERAL SECTIONS OF SCRIPTURE which declare THE SAME THING;

--Rev20:4a ppl being spoken of, are DISTINCT from the persons in v.20:4b; they existed on the earth during the same Tribulation period (see Dan7:22, same wording as in Rv20:4a); So v.4a is speaking of "STILL-LIVING" persons at the end, whereas v.4b is speaking of those who'd been BEHEADED [i.e. DIED / KILLED] during the Trib [2nd half in particular], where it says OF THEM, "AND I saw the SOULS OF those who..." [<--those who'd died / were KILLED] "and they LIVED..." [<--SAME GREEK WORD used of Jesus AFTER HE had DIED, used in Rev2:8, "...which was dead, AND LIVED" (speaking of His "resurrection ['TO STAND AGAIN' after having DIED]"); But notice that it states "But the REST of the DEAD lived not again UNTIL..." (ALL "SAVED" persons are "resurrected" IN TIME for the MK age--NONE LEFT OUT; so where it says, "THE REST OF THE DEAD" it can ONLY mean the "UNSAVED [DEAD]"... but it says "the rest of the dead LIVED NOT AGAIN UNTIL..." [until the time-period which FOLLOWS His RETURN to the earth in Rev19, IS CONCLUDED--i.e. at the END of the MK age, at the GWTj time-slot--But think about why it says "lived not again UNTIL"... because THEY WILL... and these are the UNSAVED DEAD... of which "and the REMNANT / REST were SLAIN [by the sword of Him...]" of Rev19:21 are just A PART / FRACTION)

oyster67 · Feb 23, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

Bible definitely places The New Heaven and New Earth after the Millennial age.
I would rely on context to determine the time of any "Age to Come", though. I would say that the Millennium and the Final State are both coming ages.

Hell, Sheol, Hades...

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