Hell

[Blain]

Going back and forth is unfruitful. We must study this subject. It is the object of the enemy to separate us, and he is using the Scripture to do it. When I speak of delusions/lies, I am directing it toward the wicked one, not you. May we pray for a sound mind and peace towards one another. I apologize if my words have brought you to anger.

God Bless

Im not angry I just dont approve you calling my experience what you did, sugar coating hell helps no one and even if it brings us comfort about loved ones it still isnt true.
I lost a person I was trying to help on here to suicide he was not saved and I grieved for him because I knew where he was heading but still no matter how much I wish things werent the way they were i trust God as a righteous judge.

 

[ColinCat]

The biggest problem is that the atheist/agnostic has no fear of Hell because if neither God nor Heaven are real to you then neither is Hell. They see death as the end for all. I am fortunate because I can still remember the way I thought as an agnostic, it helps me when speaking to the unsaved and Hell isn't something you spend days and nights thinking about, that only becomes real to a believer. I know my parents are not ready to talk about Jesus, Heaven of Hell. No one knows my parents and my children better than I do (except for God) and I know they aren't ready so praying is all I can do for them right now. I feel bad about this because I know I'm responsible for enlightening them - my hands are tied and it's not a good feeling.

Yeah I have no fear of hell whatsoever. It never crosses my mind for a second. I'm still accountable for my actions though because there are very real consequences in this life for anything I do.

Anyway I don't want to discuss morality or wether he'll exists or not.

I will say that it must be hard for some believers to carry that concept around with them and I couldn't begin to understand any fears they have of hell.

I suppose the biggest concern for me, which you touched upon, if I was a believer would be worrying for loved ones who may bound for hell and being unable to do anything about it.

You say your responsible for enlightening people. Do you believe you will be held accountable if you don't enlighten anyone?

 

[Nicee]

For some crazy reasons I have read or scan through all of the replies on this Thread. I find all of them interesting. I guess everyone has their opinion on things, and I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO GIVE MINE. Thanks for the replies it was a fun read.

 

[Radius]

its just interesting that in all the parables Jesus spoke of he did not assign names or make it personal, but in the story of Lazarus and the Beggar he did. If Jesus deviated from his standard parable language by assigning names, to me He is speaking of a real time and a real event that took place.

 

[Butch5]

I have to admit I have a real problem with this. I remember when I was first saved, a Jehovah Witness put one of their little leaflets through my door and there was a little bit about Hell in there, I know that what was written in that leaflet wasn't Biblical but it did make me feel better. It described Hell from the JW point of view, suggesting that the "pit" described in the Bible was simply a grave - so the unsaved were simply buried and that was as bad as it got. I struggle with the truth of Hell - all my family are unsaved and my parents do not deserve to suffer the torment of Hell but seemingly this awaits them. I pray for my family but so far nothing has changed.

So where is Hell? How can such a place exist? I have heard there are varying degrees of suffering depending on the depth of sin one has committed during their lifetime. I guess I just want someone to make be feel better about this, I really don't want Hell to be literal, it's a burden I carry.

Hi Parrotwoman,
.
the fate of the wicked is something that I have studied in depth. I can say that the typical understanding of Hell espoused by many Christians, is wrong. The typical idea of Hell is a place of eternal torment, that is simply not what the Scriptures teach. Hell which is translated from either Sheole or Hades, is simply the grave. The place of torment is Gehenna or the Lake of Fire. No one has gone there yet. When a person dies, whether a believer or unbeliever they go to the grave and the breath/spirit of God returns to him. At the first resurrection the dead will be raised and reign with Christ at the second resurrection the rest of the dead will be raised and they will be judged, the wicked will be cast into Gehenna, the Lake of Fire and be destroyed. There is no eternal burning or torment of the wicked. That idea comes from a few misunderstood passages. I'd be happy to discuss this with you and take you to the Scriptures to show that this is what the Bible teaches.

 

[Jruiz]

I myself had a huge problem with the idea of eternal torment( burning for eternity) I couldn't understand how someone could follow a religion that believes that....I watched a video of a Christian being prosecuted and he was lit on fire as his sister witnessed this whole thing crying and screaming as her brother was in pain and agony...pretty horrific isn't it? Well this is what happens in hell...God is a just God....but this is what happens in hell....except for eternity. I know a lot of good,quality,moral people who are not believers....the thought of them being in a place like that is horrifying...Its amazing how many Christians are mortified at the idea of watching their sibling being prosecute by burning to death but when you remind them that this is what happens in hell.... Their not too sure what to say....

 

[Jruiz]

Not to mention!!! The punishment doesn't fit the crime. We live a life span of 75-80 years...but people will pay for eternity??? Burning??? Really? Who agrees with this? Oh but God knows what he's doing....Are you that brainwashed! Come on...seriously....I believe non believers perish, I believe in eternal damnation,but I don't believe in a place of eternal torment.

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

Im not angry I just dont approve you calling my experience what you did, sugar coating hell helps no one and even if it brings us comfort about loved ones it still isnt true.
I lost a person I was trying to help on here to suicide he was not saved and I grieved for him because I knew where he was heading but still no matter how much I wish things werent the way they were i trust God as a righteous judge.

There is no sugar coating going on. My intention is to bring what the Bible says, not a soothing lie. The comfort is in knowing the truth, and sharing that truth with others. It is not my opinion, my thought, my belief or any other such thing. It is a Biblical fact that the nominal view of eternal hellfire is not taught in Scripture. I usually keep a few memory verses to share with others when I don't have my Bible with me. On this particular subject, it only takes a few Scriptures to reveal the reality of hellfire. Here are a few. Tell me how I have manipulated them into some kind of lie, as you have stated I have done.

Genesis 19:24 "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;"

Jude 7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

So, the fire and brimstone that rained down on Sodom and Gomorrha was an example of eternal fire? Was the result of that fire an eternal place of burning? Lets find out.

2 Peter 2:6 "and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow [destruction], making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

Not only does this say that the eternal fire turned Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes, but this also says that this is an example of what will happen to those in the future that live ungodly.

Wait, thats not all. Let us turn back to the last book of the Old Testament, where we will see the same exact thing.

Malachi 4:1,3 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

Conclusion? The ungodly/wicked will be turned to ashes in the eternal fire. The LORD's Word is beautiful when we let the Bible interpret itself. Line upon line, precept upon precept.

God Bless

 

[Radius]

Hi Parrotwoman,
.
the fate of the wicked is something that I have studied in depth. I can say that the typical understanding of Hell espoused by many Christians, is wrong. The typical idea of Hell is a place of eternal torment, that is simply not what the Scriptures teach. Hell which is translated from either Sheole or Hades, is simply the grave. The place of torment is Gehenna or the Lake of Fire. No one has gone there yet. When a person dies, whether a believer or unbeliever they go to the grave and the breath/spirit of God returns to him. At the first resurrection the dead will be raised and reign with Christ at the second resurrection the rest of the dead will be raised and they will be judged, the wicked will be cast into Gehenna, the Lake of Fire and be destroyed. There is no eternal burning or torment of the wicked. That idea comes from a few misunderstood passages. I'd be happy to discuss this with you and take you to the Scriptures to show that this is what the Bible teaches.

So....the story (not a parable, because Jesus used different words to tell this story than the other parables he taught) about the Rich man and Lazarus was...just for fun? There was a man in the flames and he was in torture and thirsty, this story was not told to represent something else, what could it represent? It was an actual account with real people to warn those who die without Christ.

 

[Radius]

Furhermore when Revelation talks about "anyone's name not found written in the Book or Life was thrown into the lake of fire" where they will be tortured day and night forever and ever doesn't sound like annihilation to me. Please people, every thing in the Bible isn't in code, these words are plain as day and are to be taken literal.

It's such a cop out for some people to just say, "eh, Jesus didn't really MEAN that, it was symbolic". It leaves the door wide open for twisting the Scriptures. What is spoken of what is to happen to unbelievers who die without Christ in Revelation is real. I just dont get the symbolism there.

 

[Radius]

Not to mention!!! The punishment doesn't fit the crime. We live a life span of 75-80 years...but people will pay for eternity??? Burning??? Really? Who agrees with this? Oh but God knows what he's doing....Are you that brainwashed! Come on...seriously....I believe non believers perish, I believe in eternal damnation,but I don't believe in a place of eternal torment.

You don't believe the Bible? The Bible clearly says those names not found written in the Book of Life will go away to hell where they "will be tortured day and night forever and ever."

 

[Jruiz]

What does it mean to be tortured day and night?...Day and night could mean forever and ever...being non existent can be eternal torture...being without the father is eternal torture...yes I do believe in the bible

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

What does it mean to be tortured day and night?...Day and night could mean forever and ever...being non existent can be eternal torture...being without the father is eternal torture...yes I do believe in the bible

We must find out what the term "for ever" actually means to God when He says it. Understand first, the LORD is eternal and we by nature are not. Some quote the following 2 verses to prove that hell burns forever:

Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

In Isaiah 34 you will see that the same language is used to describe the fate of Edom:

Isaiah 34:9,10 "And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up forever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever."

Is Edom still burning today? No, it is not.

So, what is the meaning of the term "forever" in Scripture? If the Bible interprets itself, we will have our answer.

Exodus 21:6 "Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for ever."

How is this possible? What happens when the slave dies? When the slave dies, his master no longer has his service. Hence, forever means however long the slave lives. The corrupted New International Version actually helps prove this point and translates the word "for ever" as "for life".

How about the story of Jonah and the whale.

Jonah 1:17 "Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."

Matthew 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Both Jonah and Jesus agree that the prophet was in the belly of the whale for 3 days and 3 nights. Yet, when recounting the story, how does Jonah describe that same period of time?

Jonah 2:6 "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God."

There are over 50 verses in Scripture where the term "for ever" is used to describe something that had a specific period of time. Unfortunately, Satan has convinced many that this is not true, and that a God of love will torment His creation "for ever".

God Bless

 

[john832]

So....the story (not a parable, because Jesus used different words to tell this story than the other parables he taught) about the Rich man and Lazarus was...just for fun? There was a man in the flames and he was in torture and thirsty, this story was not told to represent something else, what could it represent? It was an actual account with real people to warn those who die without Christ.

Interesting, but it is a parable. To whom is Christ speaking?

Luk 16:14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
Luk 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

He is not speaking to His disciples here.

Mat 13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
Mat 13:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS KEPT SECRET FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."

He explained the parables to the disciples privately, but spoke publicly in parables to hide the meaning. Parables are not quaint stories used to explain truth to simple farm folk, nothing could be further from the truth...


Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Mat 13:12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'HEARING YOU WILL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND, AND SEEING YOU WILL SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE;
Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEARTS OF THIS PEOPLE HAVE GROWN DULL. THEIR EARS ARE HARD OF HEARING, AND THEIR EYES THEY HAVE CLOSED, LEST THEY SHOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, LEST THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS AND TURN, SO THAT I SHOULD HEAL THEM.'

 

[john832]

Furhermore when Revelation talks about "anyone's name not found written in the Book or Life was thrown into the lake of fire" where they will be tortured day and night forever and ever doesn't sound like annihilation to me. Please people, every thing in the Bible isn't in code, these words are plain as day and are to be taken literal.

It's such a cop out for some people to just say, "eh, Jesus didn't really MEAN that, it was symbolic". It leaves the door wide open for twisting the Scriptures. What is spoken of what is to happen to unbelievers who die without Christ in Revelation is real. I just dont get the symbolism there.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Word for death in verse 14:

G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

It does not and cannot mean life in some other place. It means death.

They are cast into the Lake of Fire and burned to ashes...

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

[john832]

You don't believe the Bible? The Bible clearly says those names not found written in the Book of Life will go away to hell where they "will be tortured day and night forever and ever."

You are adding to scripture here. The verse actually says...

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice the word "are" is in italics? Means it was not in the original but added by the translators in 1611. The NIV actually translates this very well...

New International Version
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Beast and False Prophet are men and are burned up to ashes. The Devil on the other hand, is a spirit and is tormented forever.

Much of this idea of an ever burning hell comes from Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy and is not Biblical at all.

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by john832,
The Devil on the other hand, is a spirit and is tormented forever.

Satan will be consumed also.

"...I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth..." Eze.28:18

 

[JesusIsAll]

"SDA teach a series of heresies, such as the unscriptural “Investigative Judgment” and “soul sleep” and that there is no Hell. SDA's instead errantly believe that the wicked will be annihilated. The Bible has much more to say about Hell than Heaven, and repeatedly warns of flaming fire (2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9), everlasting fire (Matthew 18:8) and the vengeance of eternal fire (Jude 1:7) for the wicked."

To know who you're dealing with, sabbath pushers, works salvation, soul sleep, Trinity denial, hell annihilation, click on this:

Seventh-Day Adventists are Very Sneaky​

One must really wonder about a group that goes to great pains to hide what they really are, you think? In truth, how many SDAs are sneaking around on CC?

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

The Beast and False Prophet are men and are burned up to ashes. The Devil on the other hand, is a spirit and is tormented forever.

I have read many of your posts, and it is my belief that you are correct in your understanding of Scripture. However, this statement isn't correct.

You say the Beast and False Prophet are both men. The reference to the Beast is from Revelation 13:1-10. Without going into an in-depth study on the Beast, I will atleast identify what a beast is in Scripture.

Daniel 7:2-3,17,23 "[SUP]2 [/SUP]Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another." "[SUP]17 [/SUP]These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth." "[SUP]23 [/SUP]Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces."

The Bible tells us that a beast in prophecy is a king and his kingdom. Most would identify this as a system, versus a single man by himself.

The reference to the False Prophet is from Revelation 19:19-20:

Revelation 19:19-20 "
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.[SUP]"[/SUP]

Several things to note here. In verse 19, John sees "the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies". In verse 20, he now says "the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet". The False Prophet is identified as the kings (plural) of the earth, and their armies. Secondly, what is the main characteristic of the False Prophet given in verse 20? "that wrought miracles before him [the beast], with which he deceived them". This same terminology is used in conjunction with the second beast mentioned in Revelation 13:11-17.

Revelation 13:14 "[SUP]14 [/SUP]and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. "

Comparing Scripture with Scripture, we can easily see that the False Prophet is a system of kings and armies that uses miracles to draw the world to worship the Beast. The False Prophet is identified as the second beast in Revelation 13. Again, a beast in prophecy is a king and his kingdom.

Conclusion. The Beast and the False Prophet are 2 kingdoms working together to deceive the entire world into a system of false worship against the LORD.

You also stated that the Devil will be tormented forever. That is also incorrect. Speaking to Satan, the LORD said:

Ezekiel 28:14-19 "[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. [SUP]16 [/SUP]By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [SUP]19 [/SUP]All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee:
thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

Satan will be turned to ashes (destroyed) in the lake of fire. This is in harmony with the other Scriptures I posted that reveal the wicked being turned to ashes in hellfire. Satan and his followers have the same end.

God Bless

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

"SDA teach a series of heresies, such as the unscriptural “Investigative Judgment” and “soul sleep” and that there is no Hell. SDA's instead errantly believe that the wicked will be annihilated. The Bible has much more to say about Hell than Heaven, and repeatedly warns of flaming fire (2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9), everlasting fire (Matthew 18:8) and the vengeance of eternal fire (Jude 1:7) for the wicked."

To know who you're dealing with, sabbath pushers, works salvation, soul sleep, Trinity denial, hell annihilation, click on this:

Seventh-Day Adventists are Very Sneaky​

One must really wonder about a group that goes to great pains to hide what they really are, you think? In truth, how many SDAs are sneaking around on CC?

I don't know what a discussion about hell has to do with an attack on a particular denomination. It is one thing to disagree, but to outright attack like this and cast judgement doesn't sound very Christ-like. Share with love.

God Bless