Here are the differences between the last two prophetic comings of Christ (the Rapture vs Second Coming)

[Howdy]

Well I can post scriptures for you and explain it, but I can't understand it for you.

So you're on some sort of spread chaos and confusion trip instead of seeking the truth within Scripture.

"I do not mean to offend anyone." ?? But you come across like you want to do exactly that.

"If anyone thinks they can silence me by putting me on ignore and still post thing I believe is wrong, they are mistaken."

See what I mean?! You may as well had posted I'm a punk and am here to be an ass. Because that's how you come across. Are you too lazy to actually think? Talk about the scripture? Let us reason together? Hello anybody home?! Can you speak on a higher lever than you have been doing? Because if you can then perhaps someone may actually learn something.

You sound like a 14 year old punk. Your best post about this subject was "UH-UHHH"

I am embarrassed for you. How old are you?

I could say the same thing about you.
The great falling away that Paul spoke abut is very evident on this forum.

I see I am wasting my time here,
By the way, I am 82 and have been studying and teaching Scripture for 60 years.

 

[Edward429451]

Not in God's eyes. This is a liberal statement of the highest order. I know you didn't mean it that way, but we are only free to interpret scripture in its historical, grammatical, linguistical, cultural, etc. setting. (Paul says, you have to rightly divide the word. Whatever that means, it means at least we have restrictions.)

I actually thought about that after I clicked. But, people will choose what they want to believe.

Paul is right. To divide the word can be done in 3 ways or a combination of ways.

First reading gives you the textual content.
2nd reading gets you the spiritual content
The 3rd reading you discern the biblical principle it speaks of so we apply that to our life.

 

[Edward429451]

Please let all of us know who you are writing about!

I was talking to Howdy. You seem to have a pretty good handle on it.

 

[Edward429451]

I could say the same thing about you.
The great falling away that Paul spoke abut is very evident on this forum.

I see I am wasting my time here,
By the way, I am 82 and have been studying and teaching Scripture for 60 years.

Well you shouldn't be obnoxious to people either way.

You either got a lot of pride or a tremendous amount of anger within you,

God bless you...

 

[Howdy]

Well you shouldn't be obnoxious to people either way.

You either got a lot of pride or a tremendous amount of anger within you,

God bless you...

People that know me have never said that about me.
I may be loud and rough around the edges and blunt in my posts, but this forum thing is new to me.
A little difficult for me to understand others and for others to understand me when we do not meet face to face.
I always tell any new person that I have the privilege to teach to always doubt what others teach, even me until you study for yourself.
But I also tell them if they disagree with me they had best be ready to provide Scripture and a full explanation.
I do get frustrated when people do not offer a logical explanation or avert the question and it seems to me that happens a lot on this forum.

 

[GaryA]

I suppose you do not believe what John wrote as directed by God in Revelation when He said THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Explain to me why John would say such a thing if it were not true.

No offense, but it is because you need to study it more and study it deeper. The truth is in there. You have to dig for it and refer to the original language to get the actual meaning.

Some verses in scripture sound like they say one thing, but when you word study in the original language out, it actually means the opposite of how they translated it. You want some examples?

And there's already been several resurrections of a sort, but that's much deeper.

Just a quick note. The first resurrection has several stages as recorded in 1 Cor 15:22, 23. Each group (the Church, the OT saints...) is resurrected in a certain order. Christ is the first fruits of the first resurrection, then those at his coming who belong to him, etc.

Revelation 20:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You do not have to study very deep to understand that - in the context of this passage - there is no "several resurrections of a sort" or "several stages" in the meaning of 'first resurrection' - it is explicit and straight-forward - there is no connotative variance.

And, in the study of scripture, there can never be a contradiction between a "deeper meaning" and the "base/first level" meaning.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I suppose you do not believe what John wrote as directed by God in Revelation when He said THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Explain to me why John would say such a thing if it were not true.

Precious friend, yes, it is true, but a distinction must be made - ie:

The Secret Resurrection Of The Mystery = God's Great GRACE Departure!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

The First Resurrection Of Prophecy (PDF)

Amen.

 

[GaryA]

I am with @Howdy on this one - those described in Revelation 20:4 are part of the 'first resurrection' - there are no two ways about it.

 

[PaulThomson]

For those who put the Rapture and the Second Coming at roughly the same time, I offer this list of contrasts between the Rapture and the Second Coming. Each number in one section corresponds to the same number in the other section. This is also a list that supports the Rapture happening before the Tribulation, and the Second Coming happening at the end of the Tribulation.


At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him
15. The Tribulation begins

At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. Christ judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. The are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins

There is very little agreement between these two charts, demonstrating that the Rapture does not happen at the Second Coming. Note also that the Rapture is only revealed in the NT, whereas the Second Coming is revealed in both the OT and NT. That is because the Rapture was a mystery doctrine.

Perhaps there is only one hour between the descent of Jesus to the clouds, the first resurrection and rapture of the saints to meet Him in the air, until the descent of Jesus to the Mount of Olives?

These ones may be so.
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11 No mention of Satan
15. The Tribulation begins.

What is your evidence for the following?

3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him

All the below may be so.

At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. Christ judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. The are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins

 

[EddieM]

What is your evidence for the following?

3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him

I will do a little of your own study, you should know where to find these

3. GJohn 14 1-3

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house (in heaven) has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place (the Father's house) for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you (in heaven), I will come back and take you (back to heaven) to be with me that you also may be where I am.

4. 1 Thes 1.10

10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath (this is the Tribulation).

5. Rev 19.1, 17

1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God...
17 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride (note "in heaven" is where this takes place) has made herself ready (this is the Rewards Ceremony, some call it the Judgment Seat of Christ).

Note the geographical context of chapter 19 in verse 1. John hears a great roar while he is in heaven.

Now it is your turn, read your Bible and look up these passages/context. This should not be hard to find if you are a serious bible student.

 

[PaulThomson]

I will do a little of your own study, you should know where to find these

3. GJohn 14 1-3

1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God ; believe also in me.
2 My Father’s house (in heaven) has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place (the Father's house) for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you (in heaven), I will come back and take you (back to heaven) to be with me that you also may be where I am.

4. 1 Thes 1.10

10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath (this is the Tribulation).

5. Rev 19.1, 17

1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God...
17 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride (note "in heaven" is where this takes place) has made herself ready (this is the Rewards Ceremony, some call it the Judgment Seat of Christ).

Note the geographical context of chapter 19 in verse 1. John hears a great roar while he is in heaven.

Now it is your turn, read your Bible and look up these passages/context. This should not be hard to find if you are a serious bible student.

Maybe Jesus was speaking about His own body as God's house. We know Jesus went away from the disciples "for a little while", via His arrest after midnight, to suffer His legal trials, the cross and hades, and to be caught up to the Father on Resurrection Sunday morning, where He received back the glory He had surrendered to incarnate and become treated as sin. After his glorification His flesh became God's temple. And subsequently, He appeared to His disciples. Those who believed He had risen from the dead and confessed Him to be Lord were baptised into His body. So, God's house is arguably the church, partly present on earth (saints who are physically alive) and partly present in heaven (saints who are physically dead). Believers are each a room in God's house. Arguably, Jesus prepared a place for us by dying and rising again. He has likely for the last 2000 years not been building a structure in heaven for saints to fill, but has been building a body/house, the new rooms added being the new converts coming into Christ. Heaven is not only somewhere up there. Heaven is also imminent within this world, and our believing spirits are part of it.

The wrath of God is when God removes the spiritual hedges restraining evil powers from fully attacking a person, community or nation so that they are overwhelmed by the evil that was previously lurking outside the barrier wanting to get at the people inside. God does not strike the victims directly, but allows the victims to have what they have rebelliously demanded: to be free of God's interference in their lives and to be able to enjoy the pleasures lying spirits have promised them are waiting outside the limits God has been enforcing to keep them from those pleasures. The Israelites were kept from the plagues imposed on Egypt by the demons the Egyptians had been serving. But they were still present in Egypt while the plagues were being unleashed. Being kept from God's wrath does not require the saints to be raptured before they happen. If God shields and preserves believers in the midst of the coming plagues, so the coming plagues striking others don't touch them, they are being "kept from the coming wrath".

Since there has been a growing number of saints populating heaven above as saints have died over the last 2000 years, there are undoubtedly a great multitude of saints in heaven just before Jesus' return, even while there are also a remnant of believers alive on earth preserved from the wrath that was being unleashed upon the earth. We cannot logically deduce from the presence of saints in heaven immediately before the Lord's return, that there are no believers on earth at the same time. The fact that John is in heaven in the vision does not mean all Christians 2000 years later will be in heaven with John and the myriad of martyrs/witnesses who have left their physical bodies during that 2000 years.

You have not given any scriptures that prove a seven year period between the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds and the descent of Jesus to the Mount of Olives with all the saints. There could be only one hour between those two events, and scripture would still be true.

 

[EddieM]

Maybe Jesus was speaking about His own body as God's house. We know Jesus went away from the disciples "for a little while", via His arrest after midnight, to suffer His legal trials, the cross and hades, and to be caught up to the Father on Resurrection Sunday morning, where He received back the glory He had surrendered to incarnate and become treated as sin. After his glorification His flesh became God's temple. And subsequently, He appeared to His disciples. Those who believed He had risen from the dead and confessed Him to be Lord were baptised into His body. So, God's house is arguably the church, partly present on earth (saints who are physically alive) and partly present in heaven (saints who are physically dead). Believers are each a room in God's house. Arguably, Jesus prepared a place for us by dying and rising again. He has likely for the last 2000 years not been building a structure in heaven for saints to fill, but has been building a body/house, the new rooms added being the new converts coming into Christ. Heaven is not only somewhere up there. Heaven is also imminent within this world, and our believing spirits are part of it.

The wrath of God is when God removes the spiritual hedges restraining evil powers from fully attacking a person, community or nation so that they are overwhelmed by the evil that was previously lurking outside the barrier wanting to get at the people inside. God does not strike the victims directly, but allows the victims to have what they have rebelliously demanded: to be free of God's interference in their lives and to be able to enjoy the pleasures lying spirits have promised them are waiting outside the limits God has been enforcing to keep them from those pleasures. The Israelites were kept from the plagues imposed on Egypt by the demons the Egyptians had been serving. But they were still present in Egypt while the plagues were being unleashed. Being kept from God's wrath does not require the saints to be raptured before they happen. If God shields and preserves believers in the midst of the coming plagues, so the coming plagues striking others don't touch them, they are being "kept from the coming wrath".

Since there has been a growing number of saints populating heaven above as saints have died over the last 2000 years, there are undoubtedly a great multitude of saints in heaven just before Jesus' return, even while there are also a remnant of believers alive on earth preserved from the wrath that was being unleashed upon the earth. We cannot logically deduce from the presence of saints in heaven immediately before the Lord's return, that there are no believers on earth at the same time. The fact that John is in heaven in the vision does not mean all Christians 2000 years later will be in heaven with John and the myriad of martyrs/witnesses who have left their physical bodies during that 2000 years.

You have not given any scriptures that prove a seven year period between the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds and the descent of Jesus to the Mount of Olives with all the saints. There could be only one hour between those two events, and scripture would still be true.

T

Maybe Jesus was speaking about His own body as God's house. We know Jesus went away from the disciples "for a little while", via His arrest after midnight, to suffer His legal trials, the cross and hades, and to be caught up to the Father on Resurrection Sunday morning, where He received back the glory He had surrendered to incarnate and become treated as sin. After his glorification His flesh became God's temple. And subsequently, He appeared to His disciples. Those who believed He had risen from the dead and confessed Him to be Lord were baptised into His body. So, God's house is arguably the church, partly present on earth (saints who are physically alive) and partly present in heaven (saints who are physically dead). Believers are each a room in God's house. Arguably, Jesus prepared a place for us by dying and rising again. He has likely for the last 2000 years not been building a structure in heaven for saints to fill, but has been building a body/house, the new rooms added being the new converts coming into Christ. Heaven is not only somewhere up there. Heaven is also imminent within this world, and our believing spirits are part of it.

The wrath of God is when God removes the spiritual hedges restraining evil powers from fully attacking a person, community or nation so that they are overwhelmed by the evil that was previously lurking outside the barrier wanting to get at the people inside. God does not strike the victims directly, but allows the victims to have what they have rebelliously demanded: to be free of God's interference in their lives and to be able to enjoy the pleasures lying spirits have promised them are waiting outside the limits God has been enforcing to keep them from those pleasures. The Israelites were kept from the plagues imposed on Egypt by the demons the Egyptians had been serving. But they were still present in Egypt while the plagues were being unleashed. Being kept from God's wrath does not require the saints to be raptured before they happen. If God shields and preserves believers in the midst of the coming plagues, so the coming plagues striking others don't touch them, they are being "kept from the coming wrath".

Since there has been a growing number of saints populating heaven above as saints have died over the last 2000 years, there are undoubtedly a great multitude of saints in heaven just before Jesus' return, even while there are also a remnant of believers alive on earth preserved from the wrath that was being unleashed upon the earth. We cannot logically deduce from the presence of saints in heaven immediately before the Lord's return, that there are no believers on earth at the same time. The fact that John is in heaven in the vision does not mean all Christians 2000 years later will be in heaven with John and the myriad of martyrs/witnesses who have left their physical bodies during that 2000 years.

You have not given any scriptures that prove a seven year period between the rapture to meet Jesus in the clouds and the descent of Jesus to the Mount of Olives with all the saints. There could be only one hour between those two events, and scripture would still be true.

This is the most convoluted presentation I have read in a long time. By your writings I can see you are a babe in Christ. So, don't take offense at my response to your reply. You show no signs of having mastered the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. For example, the 7 year Tribulation is just a way of speaking of the 7 year covenant that the Antichrist signs with Israel which starts the Tribulation. The Rapture does not start the Tribulation, it just precedes it. Personally, I believe that the Tribulation starts real close to the beginning of the Trib. The main reason some bible students say there is a long (3.5 years) wait between the Rapture and the Trib. is because there seems to be some time needed (7 years) for Israel to burn all the enemies' weapons (which takes a total of 7 years to burn all the weapons), since the Antichrist runs all the Jews away from Jerusalem (at the midpoint of the trib) the Rapture would occur at least 3.5 years before the burning of all the weapons. see 'chart' below

3.5 years before the signing of the covenant
3.5 years into the Trib when all the weapons are completely burned
7 years total in order to fulfill the prophecy of 7 years burning of the weapons,

Chronology of events

1. 7 years needed to completly burn all the weapons of Israel's enemies
2. The first half of the Trib is 3.5 years and then the Jews flee to Bozrah and Petra, this is where to 7 years concludes
3. So in order to complete the 7 year burning of weapons, it has to start at least 3.5 years before the Trib

 

[Psalm1]

The starting place is the OT. The God who tells the end from the beginning. In Daniel 9 70 years is put on Israel for not knowing the day of His visitation on earth. Daniel is the most authenticated book of the bible. Digging through it reveals that 70 years (weeks of years) if you do the math (30 day prophetical years!) it worked out to the exact day that Jesus made His triumphant entry into Jerusalem. Because they had the data they got the date wrong so the Lord put 70 weeks of years on them.

Matthew 24 says, (talking about the pre trib rapture) that, it will be like in Noahs day. It was business as usual all the way up until the flood then they were swept away but 8 wer "raptured" and saved. This is a type & shadow of the rapture. Hardly anyone believes it. I want to get married or start a business...until, boom, the rapture happens. And because the lukewarm were not watching for His return they get left behind and will have to endure the great trib.

It's a scary thought. He might be coming to only pick up a dozen people worldwide!

Yes sir.
You are paying attention to what is there.

 

[Howdy]

T


This is the most convoluted presentation I have read in a long time. By your writings I can see you are a babe in Christ. So, don't take offense at my response to your reply. You show no signs of having mastered the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. For example, the 7 year Tribulation is just a way of speaking of the 7 year covenant that the Antichrist signs with Israel which starts the Tribulation. The Rapture does not start the Tribulation, it just precedes it. Personally, I believe that the Tribulation starts real close to the beginning of the Trib. The main reason some bible students say there is a long (3.5 years) wait between the Rapture and the Trib. is because there seems to be some time needed (7 years) for Israel to burn all the enemies' weapons (which takes a total of 7 years to burn all the weapons), since the Antichrist runs all the Jews away from Jerusalem (at the midpoint of the trib) the Rapture would occur at least 3.5 years before the burning of all the weapons. see 'chart' below

3.5 years before the signing of the covenant
3.5 years into the Trib when all the weapons are completely burned
7 years total in order to fulfill the prophecy of 7 years burning of the weapons,

Chronology of events

1. 7 years needed to completly burn all the weapons of Israel's enemies
2. The first half of the Trib is 3.5 years and then the Jews flee to Bozrah and Petra, this is where to 7 years concludes
3. So in order to complete the 7 year burning of weapons, it has to start at least 3.5 years before the Trib

Show me in Scripture that the Jews flee to Bozrah and Petra.
Also Scriptures that says it takes 7 years to burn all the weapons of Israels' enemies and is completed three and a half years into the tribulation.
Your chart is just nonsense.

 

[Edward429451]

Show me in Scripture that the Jews flee to Bozrah and Petra.
Also Scriptures that says it takes 7 years to burn all the weapons of Israels' enemies and is completed three and a half years into the tribulation.
Your chart is just nonsense.

Wait a minute. That's exactly the way I learned it also. That's what it says. It's not all in one verse alone, it takes a bit of in depth study to see it all.

For those with eyes to see that is.

Matthew 24:16-24
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect..../KJV

 

[PaulThomson]

T


This is the most convoluted presentation I have read in a long time. By your writings I can see you are a babe in Christ. So, don't take offense at my response to your reply. You show no signs of having mastered the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. For example, the 7 year Tribulation is just a way of speaking of the 7 year covenant that the Antichrist signs with Israel which starts the Tribulation. The Rapture does not start the Tribulation, it just precedes it. Personally, I believe that the Tribulation starts real close to the beginning of the Trib. The main reason some bible students say there is a long (3.5 years) wait between the Rapture and the Trib. is because there seems to be some time needed (7 years) for Israel to burn all the enemies' weapons (which takes a total of 7 years to burn all the weapons), since the Antichrist runs all the Jews away from Jerusalem (at the midpoint of the trib) the Rapture would occur at least 3.5 years before the burning of all the weapons. see 'chart' below

3.5 years before the signing of the covenant
3.5 years into the Trib when all the weapons are completely burned
7 years total in order to fulfill the prophecy of 7 years burning of the weapons,

Chronology of events

1. 7 years needed to completly burn all the weapons of Israel's enemies
2. The first half of the Trib is 3.5 years and then the Jews flee to Bozrah and Petra, this is where to 7 years concludes
3. So in order to complete the 7 year burning of weapons, it has to start at least 3.5 years before the Trib

The person in Dan. 9 who made/cut a covenant for 7 years with the Jews seems to me to be Jesus, who directed the New covenant to the Jews until the stoning of Stephen, when the Christians fled Jerusalem and Judaea and took the gospel to Samaria and then further afield. Which scriptures are you relying on for a seven year covenant cut by an antichrist?

 

[Howdy]

Wait a minute. That's exactly the way I learned it also. That's what it says. It's not all in one verse alone, it takes a bit of in depth study to see it all.

For those with eyes to see that is.

Matthew 24:16-24
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect..../KJV

When does it mention Petra?

 

[Edward429451]

When does it mention Petra?

When does it mention Petra?

Don't you know anything about the geography of the region?

You see you have not studied this in depth enough so it's actually pointless to try to explain it to you because all you do is deny and wont study it a bit.

 

[Howdy]

Don't you know anything about the geography of the region?

You see you have not studied this in depth enough so it's actually pointless to try to explain it to you because all you do is deny and wont study it a bit.

I know the area very well.
Petra in in Jordan, an Islamic Nation.
Bozrah was a city in Edom, also in Jordan.
The exact location of where Israel flees is not named.
I know this for a fact because I do study and have been doing so for 60 years.
Those who say Israel will flee to Petra are the ones who should be studying the Bible and not the opinions of men.

 

[Edward429451]

The exact location of where Israel flees is not named.

Maybe you've never been in the military? You might call it a survival strategy or you might call it a military type strategy. The area is big enough for many people and yet is one of the most defensible places on earth. It's Petra for that reason and is well accepted amongst (most) bible scholars.