History of The Old and New Covenants: A Lesson in the Law and Grace.

[Redeemed2015]

Jesus came to confirm the abrahamic covenant

This I agree with.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3 is one of my favorite passages. As it is Paul putting an end to the argument of whether or not the works of the Law bring salvation. Which is not at all what I have stated in fact I've previously stated in agreement with Galatians 3 in conjunction with the words of Paul, The Law cannot bring salvation.

The law was added later.

You're not wrong. But the Law existed before the Covenant given to Abraham. Abraham's seed didn't physically receive the law until Mt. Sinai

According to the Apostles we are to keep the Royal Law in this day and age.

The Royal Law? Like the one mentioned in James 2?
"If, however, you fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself,' you do well."

You must realize that James isn't speaking of a new law. James writes the "royal law ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE". The only writings that would be called Scripture to James is the Torah. So James is saying, "the Royal Law according to the "Torah".

The Torah is the Royal Law. Paul even quotes directly from the Torah in the verse 8, He's directly quoting Deuteronomy 6:8 and Leviticus 19:18

He's not saying anything new. He's literally defending the Torah in this chapter.

Had sabbath and other things been required, I am sure Paul and others would have notified the Gentile churches. Yet in the New Testament no such commandments exist, although many commandments are to be found in the New Testament.

I don't know what you mean by "required". Required for what? Salvation? May it never be! The Law cannot bring Salvation
You are telling me Paul didn't teach or believe in obeying the Law? Paul was a Benjamite of course he kept the law. And being faithful to Torah he would have known verses like:

"You are to have one law for the outsider as well as the native-born, for I am The LORD your God.” -Leviticus 24:22
"One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.” -Exodus 12:49
"The same Torah and the same regulations will apply to both you and the outsider residing among you." -Numbers 15:16

Not only would Paul have known and taught these verses but He lived out the Torah as well.
You must not read Paul often there are a multitude of verses where Paul teaches obedience to the Law and leads by example.

"But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets. " -Acts 24:14

"while he answered for himself, "Neither against the Law, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all." - Acts 25:8

"..but took leave of them, saying, "I must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, Yahweh willing." And he sailed from Ephesus. -Acts 18:21

"I thank Yahweh--through Yeshua The Messiah our Master! So then, with the mind I myself serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the Law of sin." -Romans 7:25

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body of the Messiah" -Colossians 2:16-17

"For as many as have sinned without Law will also perish without Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law will be judged by the Law. For not the hearers of the Law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the Law will be justified" -Romans 2:12

"You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who make your boast in the Law, do you dishonor Yahweh through breaking the Law? For "the name of Yahweh is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written. - Romans 2:21-24[FONT=&quot]
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[Redeemed2015]

I am interested you said you were teaching in the Assemblies of God, who are pentecostals and they would disagree with your conclusions about the Sabbath, dietary restrictions and appointed times. Have you changed your views since then or was the head pastor just extremely irresponsible by confusing the flock by allowing conflicting teachings?

While attending and maintaining a position of leadership with the Assemblies of God congregation I held the same beliefs as they did. At the time I agreed with them. Just before I began teaching the class I was already studying these issues. While teaching questions were encouraged and students would ask questions concerning these topics. To which I would spout the same ignorance and unbiblical teaching that so many had fallen victim to. At the end of my studies I informed my Pastor of my studies and we began a months-long dialogue and private study. In the end this man with the Masters in Divinity and 30+ years of Pastoral experience admitted his fault, repented and came to agree with me in my findings. We ended up shifting Church Services to the Sabbath. And just before my leaving of the Congregation my class topped out at about 260 people who all had come to agree with my findings. I was challenged. By men with Masters Degrees, Seminary training, life times of Pastoral experience. And everyone of them ended up repenting. Because at the end the day, scripture backs up everything that I have stated. About 2 months following the moving of Church Services myself and the Pastor were contacted by our Regional Authority of The Assemblies Denomination. A few Representatives was sent to question us about these changes and what was being taught. However these men were not open to discussion or conversation. They were blindly following the Doctrine of The Assemblies of God. We were given the option to resume regular Church Services, cease the teachings, or leave the Congregation. The Following Sabbath Service, with about 700 in attendance myself and the head Pastor informed the congregation that we would be leaving. We said our good-byes and walked out, with nearly 300 individuals behind us.

 

[Zmouth]

Who was arguing that the Covenant and Law are interchangeable terms?

[h=2]: History of The Old and New Covenants: A Lesson in the Law and Grace.[/h]

 

[preacher4truth]

Paul warned those in Ephesus in Acts 20 about people just like this op. I do not buy his credentials or story either at 20 years old. Neither should anyone else.

 

[He_reigns]

While attending and maintaining a position of leadership with the Assemblies of God congregation I held the same beliefs as they did. At the time I agreed with them. Just before I began teaching the class I was already studying these issues. While teaching questions were encouraged and students would ask questions concerning these topics. To which I would spout the same ignorance and unbiblical teaching that so many had fallen victim to. At the end of my studies I informed my Pastor of my studies and we began a months-long dialogue and private study. In the end this man with the Masters in Divinity and 30+ years of Pastoral experience admitted his fault, repented and came to agree with me in my findings. We ended up shifting Church Services to the Sabbath. And just before my leaving of the Congregation my class topped out at about 260 people who all had come to agree with my findings. I was challenged. By men with Masters Degrees, Seminary training, life times of Pastoral experience. And everyone of them ended up repenting. Because at the end the day, scripture backs up everything that I have stated. About 2 months following the moving of Church Services myself and the Pastor were contacted by our Regional Authority of The Assemblies Denomination. A few Representatives was sent to question us about these changes and what was being taught. However these men were not open to discussion or conversation. They were blindly following the Doctrine of The Assemblies of God. We were given the option to resume regular Church Services, cease the teachings, or leave the Congregation. The Following Sabbath Service, with about 700 in attendance myself and the head Pastor informed the congregation that we would be leaving. We said our good-byes and walked out, with nearly 300 individuals behind us.

Your avatar says you are 20, the AOG does not allow teachers or leaders to teach or lead until 21, the same for their first step towards ordination, called certified minister. Please explain.

 

[preacher4truth]

Your avatar says you are 20, the AOG does not allow teachers or leaders to teach or lead until 21, the same for their first step towards ordination, called certified minister. Please explain.

We happen to live not far from Evangel University and AOG HQ and have not heard of any of this nonsense. This story sounds fabricated (because it is) and there is no way this kid did all he's claimed, nor is he all he claims.

 

[Redeemed2015]

Your avatar says you are 20, the AOG does not allow teachers or leaders to teach or lead until 21, the same for their first step towards ordination, called certified minister. Please explain.

I was not ordained under the Assemblies of God denomination to become a Pastor/Certified Minister under the AOG. I was ordained at 16 under the authority of the Independent Baptist Church I previously attended. Already being ordained I was allowed to teach, not assume a Staff position but to teach at the discretion of the Head Pastor. Also, while the AOG does have limitations as to who is allowed to be "on staff" all manners of leadership and biblical education classes are up to the appointed Head Pastor of a Congregation and his discretion.

 

[He_reigns]

We happen to live not far from Evangel University and AOG HQ and have not heard of any of this nonsense. This story sounds fabricated (because it is) and there is no way this kid did all he's claimed, nor is he all he claims.

Sounds like someone who goes from church to church and starts teaching this nonsense and Pastors that have formal education stomps on him and he gets hurt and offended. He has an axe to grind against people with formal Bible education, because they refuse to bow to him and his false teachings he received through direct revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Besides the AOG is not divided into regions they are divided by State Conference. The first man on the scene to investigate would have been the section Presbyter the local Church was assigned to and not a regional representative. No such title exists in the AOG form of government.

 

[Redeemed2015]

We happen to live not far from Evangel University and AOG HQ and have not heard of any of this nonsense. This story sounds fabricated (because it is) and there is no way this kid did all he's claimed, nor is he all he claims.

You are free to believe anything you want. I've not lied, you don't have to believe me.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are free to believe anything you want. I've not lied, you don't have to believe me.

Totally made up. That and you're a false teacher.

 

[preacher4truth]

Sounds like someone who goes from church to church and starts teaching this nonsense and Pastors that have formal education stomps on him and he gets hurt and offended. He has an axe to grind against people with formal Bible education, because they refuse to bow to him and his false teachings he received through direct revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Besides the AOG is not divided into regions they are divided by State Conference. The first man on the scene to investigate would have been the section Presbyter the local Church was assigned to and not a regional representative. No such title exists in the AOG form of government.

If this happened I'd know about it. Thanks for your input.

 

[Redeemed2015]

Sounds like someone who goes from church to church and starts teaching this nonsense and Pastors that have formal education stomps on him and he gets hurt and offended. He has an axe to grind against people with formal Bible education, because they refuse to bow to him and his false teachings he received through direct revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Besides the AOG is not divided into regions they are divided by State Conference. The first man on the scene to investigate would have been the section Presbyter the local Church was assigned to and not a regional representative. No such title exists in the AOG form of government.

Not so. I've no axe to grind against anyone. Now while I will admit to my ignorance of the official titles and positions held withing the AOG. I spoke in terms that I understood about the situation at the time.

 

[Redeemed2015]

Totally made up. That and you're a false teacher.

It's not, but like I said you are free to think so. If I am a false teacher please, use scripture and prove me wrong.

 

[He_reigns]

I was not ordained under the Assemblies of God denomination to become a Pastor/Certified Minister under the AOG. I was ordained at 16 under the authority of the Independent Baptist Church I previously attended. Already being ordained I was allowed to teach, not assume a Staff position but to teach at the discretion of the Head Pastor. Also, while the AOG does have limitations as to who is allowed to be "on staff" all manners of leadership and biblical education classes are up to the appointed Head Pastor of a Congregation and his discretion.

And now you are being called out as a Liar. The AOG will not let anyone ordained with the Baptists teach any of their people.
They would have asked you to lay down your Baptist ordination through affirmation of their 16 core beliefs. You would also have to affirm you were Baptized in the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence you speak in other tongues and deny eternal security of the Believer.

While it is up to a local AOG pastor on who teaches at his church, this does not refute the age limit. No AOG Pastor would do anything you are saying. There is a very valid legal reason why the age 21 is used. Your arrogance misses this.

I bet there are some current or former AOG men here that see right through this. Be careful here.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not so. I've no axe to grind against anyone. Now while I will admit to my ignorance of the official titles and positions held withing the AOG. I spoke in terms that I understood about the situation at the time.

Sooooo...you taught there, dismantled alleged pastors theologies who held masters degrees, know all, but are now claiming ignorance. Wow. What street is AOG HQ on? Hurry and Google it. I'll make a few calls tomorrow about their 18-20 year old whizz kid teacher who split the denom and at least one church.

You should just own up now.

 

[He_reigns]

If this happened I'd know about it. Thanks for your input.

You are welcome.

 

[He_reigns]

Not so. I've no axe to grind against anyone. Now while I will admit to my ignorance of the official titles and positions held withing the AOG. I spoke in terms that I understood about the situation at the time.

This is getting good. What state did this happen in? I will call the local conferences and let them know about you.

 

[Redeemed2015]

And now you are being called out as a Liar. The AOG will not let anyone ordained with the Baptists teach any of their people.
They would have asked you to lay down your Baptist ordination through affirmation of their 16 core beliefs. You would also have to affirm you were Baptized in the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence you speak in other tongues and deny eternal security of the Believer.

While it is up to a local AOG pastor on who teaches at his church, this does not refute the age limit. No AOG Pastor would do anything you are saying. There is a very valid legal reason why the age 21 is used. Your arrogance misses this.

I bet there are some current or former AOG men here that see right through this. Be careful here.

Aye, there is the rub, yes. The AOG will not let anyone teach without those standards, you are correct. However the class I lead was not sanctioned under the AOG. It began as nothing more than a Bible Study Group that I lead apart from normal service times under the supervision the Head Pastor, for which there was no legislation other than this group meet under the discretion of the Head Pastor.

 

[preacher4truth]

It's not, but like I said you are free to think so. If I am a false teacher please, use scripture and prove me wrong.

Totally made up. I'm not going to waste my time with you or your errors. Scripture already refutes you and proves you wrong. Without God intervening you'll remain where you are, lifted up with pride, false stories and heresies. You're on an unsustainable path. Just here to make sure others see you're making up stories.

 

[preacher4truth]

This is getting good. What state did this happen in? I will call the local conferences and let them know about you.

Notice how it is now he taught Sunday school basically? Oh how the story twists and turns! From such an official teaching position to junior church skits. Or something.