Homosexuality

[jimmydiggs]

You may think God is the Author but I think not obviously and the Earth is older than the bible claims fossils have been found dating back before the bible mentions.

Your thinking that God does not exist doesn't effect the reality of his existance. I have given you previously in this thread reasons to believe. Philosophical, reasons to believe... You have simply skipped over them, as well as refuse to answer my questions.


The age of the earth young or old does not effect the veracity of the claims of the bible.

 

[psymon23]

A philosophical argument is not proof you really don't get that, How can a man physically live to 930 years old a human being can not do so? My values and standards are no less valid then those you may have and in terms of Christ there may of been a man called Jesus Christ it doesn't mean he was a god and was then ressurected there is no proof for that.

 

[jimmydiggs]

A philosophical argument is not proof you really don't get that,

How is it not? You use philosophy to try and prove God doesn't exist. Whether you recognize it or not. Science is a philosophy.

How can a man physically live to 930 years old a human being can not do so?

After the flood of Noah, things changed, people didn't live past 120. So whatever it was, is different now.

My values and standards are no less valid then those you may have

Do you know what it means for morality to be Objective, Subjective, or Nihilistic?

Watch this video, and summarize it. I'll be waiting for your response.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKkcZ9ZSI5o[/video]

and in terms of Christ there may of been a man called Jesus Christ it doesn't mean he was a god

We don't claim that simply because he existed he was a god. Nor do we claim he was a god(this would imply many gods,thus polytheism). We claim he was God.

and was then ressurected there is no proof for that.

Depends on your evidential base, if you are a naturalist, you can't allow for that to begin with, regardless of the evidence.

If you're a naturalist, I see no reason why you should accept the resurrection based on historical analysis.

 

[psymon23]

So you say claim so that implies not factual, Morality is not linked to religion I can be a moral as you without believing in God, Science maybe a Philosophy but Philosophy is not Science just because you argue about it doesn't make it true and proved to be so. The answer for Noah is a cop out, why did all life expectancy for humans drop bye 800 years?

 

[jimmydiggs]

So you say claim so that implies not factual,

This is untintellgible. I don't know what you are trying to say. Sorry.

Morality is not linked to religion

This is a matter of Philosophy of Morality. If we are to have an Objective Morality, current philosophical understanding requires it to be grounded in God's immutable nature.

I can be a moral as you without believing in God,

I'm not sure I contested that.

The problem though, is if God ceases to exist, Objective Morality ceases to exist.

Science maybe a Philosophy but Philosophy is not Science

Correct.

just because you argue about it doesn't make it true and proved to be so.

If the argument logically follows, based on what is known, yes... Yes it does.

The answer for Noah is a cop out, why did all life expectancy for humans drop bye 800 years?

How is it a cop-out? I simply stated that things would be different, and I'm not sure you can measure that difference, as this would require knowing the difference.

 

[psymon23]

Yeah if you can tell me that was the moment the last human to be over 900 years old existed and you tell me that is when it all changed back it up with how and why? logic is not truth either something may be logical i.e evolution but that's not proved to be true either I can accept that. Morality in whatever form is governed by society in my opinion so for me to be moral doesn't depend on God.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Yeah if you can tell me that was the moment the last human to be over 900 years old existed and you tell me that is when it all changed back it up with how and why?

I don't know how or why, but I suspect God had something to do with it.

logic is not truth either something may be logical i.e evolution but that's not proved to be true either I can accept that.

So then are you saying, that atheism isn't truth, if it's the logical position?

Morality in whatever form is governed by society in my opinion so for me to be moral doesn't depend on God.

''to be moral'' It wouldn't be the same moral as we conventionalyl use the term. Rather it would come to mean, "Morality-Conforming to societal standards"...

Also, that's called Moral Relativism.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd5O0czxhz0[/video]


On moral relativism, what makes what hte Nazis did wrong? They were just conforming to the societal standard. What about racism, or prejudice against homosexuals? Isn't that just people conforming to societal stnadards?

 

[psymon23]

That's moral enough for me. Back to Noah you don't have an answer so you just say "God did it" it doesn't have an answer because it didn't happen. Again listen I've said all along that atheism isn't based on truth just a theory and the fact i find it to be a logical explanation doesn't make it fact as like the existence of God.

 

[jimmydiggs]

That's moral enough for me.

Nazi's and prejudice against homosexuals? So why complain when someone conforms to a society where lynching of homosexuals is normative?

Back to Noah you don't have an answer so you just say "God did it"

I didn't say God did it, i said I don't know but suspect he played a role.

it doesn't have an answer because it didn't happen.

If it didn't happen, that would be correct, however, I believe scripture.

Again listen I've said all along that atheism isn't based on truth just a theory and the fact i find it to be a logical explanation doesn't make it fact as like the existence of God.

Wait, what does it matter if it's a logical explaination, if logic doesn't make truth? This seems inconsistant on your part. AM I the only one seeing this?

"Christianity isn't logical/doesnt make sense! Therefor it can't be true!"
"Atheism is logical, therefor it's true!"
"logic isn't truth/proof!"

 

[psymon23]

I am saying because something can logically make sense to an individual it doesn't garuntee it's truth. You have no answer for Noah because it doesn't make any sense and you have brought Nazi's in to the argument brilliant. the society I live in doesn't comform to that but that's probably because I live in England and not in America I suppose.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I am saying because something can logically make sense to an individual it doesn't garuntee it's truth.

Are you advocating PostModernism?

You have no answer for Noah because it doesn't make any sense

No, it makes perfect sense in light of scripture and the existance of an omnipotent God. I don't have a specific answer, because quite honestly it's not something I consider to be crucial. I'm not really sure why this would be a problem, when modern science isn't even certain of what causes aging. However, maybe someone else can help you.

Did People Like Adam and Noah Really Live over 900 Years of Age? - Answers in Genesis <--- click

and you have brought Nazi's in to the argument brilliant.

Yeah, argument about morality... Nazi's are always everyones favorite, don't you know?

the society I live in doesn't comform to that but that's probably because I live in England and not in America I suppose.

What's wrong with Saudi Arabia executing homosexuals in a relativistic system?

 

[psymon23]

Like I say I don't agree with any of the prejudice things that may go on in the world including Saudi Arabia, I'm not even going to go in to the Nazi's I haven't got enough time to do so and Of course the story of Noah is important if you're are going to live by this book then you can't just brush over s part of it you don't understand or doesn't make any sense and say "It's not something I consider to be crucial." I do if that caused our life expectancy to drop bye 800 years I think that's a very important and key moment in Human history. That's if it happened of course

 

[FSUBoy966]

We have the crazy atheist and the crazy christian. Brilliant.

 

[psymon23]

why am I crazy?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Like I say I don't agree with any of the prejudice things that may go on in the world including Saudi Arabia,

When lacking an Objective system upon which to judge moral actions, what does it matter?

Even Sam Harris Recognizes this, and he's on your team.

"They [atheists] think we can combat human evil all the while knowing that our notions of 'good' and 'evil' are completely unwarranted" (The Moral Landscape, Page 27)

I'm not even going to go in to the Nazi's I haven't got enough time to do so

You mean, just like everything else I've brought up?

So far, your case is behind this patient marine.

and Of course the story of Noah is important if you're are going to live by this book then you can't just brush over s part of it you don't understand

I don't brush over it. There are many who do, and many who simply ignore the Old Testament (such as David_1). I prefer the whole counsel of God.

or doesn't make any sense and say "It's not something I consider to be crucial."

Please, refer back to this..

Wait, what does it matter if it's a logical explaination, if logic doesn't make truth? This seems inconsistant on your part. AM I the only one seeing this?

"Christianity isn't logical/doesnt make sense! Therefor it can't be true!"
"Atheism is logical, therefor it's true!"
"logic isn't truth/proof!"

I do if that caused our life expectancy to drop bye 800 years I think that's a very important and key moment in Human history. That's if it happened of course

I presented an artical to you, did you read it?

Here, I'll post it again. It presents some reasons as to why believing humans once lived much longer than 120 years, isn't a problem.
Did People Like Adam and Noah Really Live over 900 Years of Age? - Answers in Genesis <-- click


I would say the only important and key moment in human history has been the resurrection of Christ.

For you psymon.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPIOkdNL-QQ[/video]

 

[jimmydiggs]

We have the crazy atheist and the crazy christian. Brilliant.

LORD, who may dwell in your sacred tent?
Who may live on your holy mountain?

2 The one whose walk is blameless,
who does what is righteous,
who speaks the truth from their heart;
3 whose tongue utters no slander,
who does no wrong to a neighbor,
and casts no slur on others;
4 who despises a vile person
but honors those who fear the LORD;
who keeps an oath even when it hurts,
and does not change their mind;
5 who lends money to the poor without interest;
who does not accept a bribe against the innocent. Whoever does these things
will never be shaken.

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

........................

 

[Aristotle]

I understand what you are saying. >>>>>>But<<<<<<<(Theres a huge but over there). I do believe one great reason why it is such a prevelant topic now in the assembly of the Church is because the outside culture is making great attempt to intimidate the church into embrassing homosexuality as apart of the culture of the church. There is much sin we all deal with of course thats a no brainer, but when the people outside of the church is attempting with great force to have us change our stance on homosexuality being an offence to God then it has to be addressed. Have you ever seen those movies or have ever been in a situation as a child when your parents told you to stay inside? but here comes from friend who is trouble and taps on your window or calls you on the phone and says when your parents go to sleep, meet me outside at the park? and so that child says to that friend...ok. So, that child spends every waking moment waiting for the parents to go to sleep, but the entire time that child is struggling emotionaly, mentaly with should he/she leave the house when he/she was told not to, but then while that child is struggling with this internaly that bad friend comes and taps on the window and calls pressuring his/her friend saying are your parents asleep yet? whats taking so long, come outside, hurry up. There are people in the church struggling with the sin of homosexuality and it is a mental, emotional struggle etc and there is a voice of a friend yelling at them on the outside, and in the windows saying come outside and lets play, come out side and let us do homosexual play etc and juist like the person in the house is confused whether he/she should do it or not, those struggling with homosexuality are confused the same. There-fore because it has become so close to home it has to be dealt with so close to home. During the time of Timothy and Paul, there were hundreds of heresies out and about, but Paul told Timothy to deal with the heresies that are presently attempting to influence the culture of the church. Honestly, today I was saying to God that I am tired of the whole issue of the sin of homosexuality, but I also understand that when the intensity of attack from Satan is turned up in this manner, then we also have to turn up the heat of truth.

I don't think it deserves any special treatment. Sin is sin.

 

[FSUBoy966]

........................

.... Ha.. With all the hateful crap you spew, I'm surprised you can post that without your computer exploding.

 

[psymon23]

.... Ha.. With all the hateful crap you spew, I'm surprised you can post that without your computer exploding.

I have to agree with you and even with this individuals ideas on this topic it doesn't put me off Christian people I have spoken to a lot of you on here who are good, logical thinking people without prejudice and I commend you for that.

 

[jimmydiggs]

.... Ha.. With all the hateful crap you spew, I'm surprised you can post that without your computer exploding.

Any examples?

Also, keep in mind..

Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

And...

The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Maybe we could be a bit civil, huh? Afterall, it's not good PR for an atheist to see Christians in disagreeance. It's an exscuse used to runfrom God.