How can someone who 'never dies' be amongst 'the dead' who rise 1st?

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Whomsoever

Member
Dec 2, 2024
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Either we 'never die' and are resurrected immediately to heaven at the death of the first body, to follow Him and to be where He is and to stand at the judgment seat of Christ

or

we die, are buried and await His return for a resurrection as one of the dead in Christ to be judged at the GWTJ


Whatever you believe, please show USING Scripture that PROVES it
 
Either we 'never die' and are resurrected immediately to heaven at the death of the first body, to follow Him and to be where He is and to stand at the judgment seat of Christ

or

we die, are buried and await His return for a resurrection as one of the dead in Christ to be judged at the GWTJ


Whatever you believe, please show USING Scripture that PROVES it
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There is 2 resurrections.

One of the saints before the millennial reign.

And one of the dead after the millennial reign.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zec 14:5 and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

When the resurrection happens all the saints will be caught up which is the same event.

When Jesus comes back to defeat the world all the saints are with Him so they were all taken up to be with Him.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Which there are souls under the altar in heaven awaiting the rest of the saints on earth to join them.

They have not received their glorified body yet.

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

To those in the Lord the natural body when it dies will sprout to become a spiritual body like a seed planted sprouts to be a plant.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The dead shall rise first but it is not speaking of their soul that shall rise for their soul is in heaven throughout the Church age when they died.

So there is no resurrection where all the dead their souls rise up collectively for their soul arose as they died throughout the Church age.

But the dead rise first means their natural body sprouts to be a spiritual body which they obtain their spiritual body first.

Then those alive will rise their soul and receive their glorified body.

But it is the same event on the same day for there is one resurrection not two resurrections of the saints.

Then all the saints will be with Jesus and all the saints will come back with Jesus when He defeats the world.
 
Either we 'never die' and are resurrected immediately to heaven at the death of the first body, to follow Him and to be where He is and to stand at the judgment seat of Christ

or

we die, are buried and await His return for a resurrection as one of the dead in Christ to be judged at the GWTJ


Whatever you believe, please show USING Scripture that PROVES i
Scripture proves only one pattern — the believer dies and awaits resurrection (1 Thess 4:16; John 6:40; 1 Cor 15:52), while the unbeliever dies and awaits judgment (John 5:28–29), meaning no text teaches an immediate resurrection to heaven at death. The souls of believers go to be with Christ immediately (Phil 1:23; 2 Cor 5:8), but they still await resurrection (1 Thess 4:16; John 6:40), meaning the soul is with the Lord now while the body waits for the last day.
 
Either we 'never die' and are resurrected immediately to heaven at the death of the first body, to follow Him and to be where He is and to stand at the judgment seat of Christ

or

we die, are buried and await His return for a resurrection as one of the dead in Christ to be judged at the GWTJ


Whatever you believe, please show USING Scripture that PROVES it
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I do not believe when we experience death from our bodies that we just await the resurrection. There is a temporary existence we dont really or fully understand before the resurrection. Story of the rich man with Abraham and Lazarus proves that.

Matthew 22:32
‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”