How can this happen

[God-fearing]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

 

[Mem]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

Ye is Elizabethan for y'all, and Jesus was speaking to a multitude at the sermon on the mount so, perhaps this doesn't apply only to believers but to all. And I think it seems worth noting Jesus' example is spoken using the hypothetical term "if." Does this necessarily imply the possibility of the salt losing his savour? Suppose the salt is just not 'asserting' his savour, and thus is thrown around and run over by bullies. And, since "Let your light shine" suggests 'allowing' the ignition of your light, and it can't be hidden any more than a city on a hill can be hidden, then it seems reasonable to conclude that the only way that it can be hidden is if you do not let it shine.

 

[Drich]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

If you read what He says in mat 7 we find out that we are not 'saved' till Judgement.

21;“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22;Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23;And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus is literally describing a day of judgement where most of us will be judged. The key to reconciling examples in the bible like the thief on the cross who was told today you will be with me in paradise; is that Jesus' judgement is the key. Meaning Jesus can judge you in this life as being saved like the thief on the cross, or it can happen at judgement as described in mat 7

 

[Rosemaryx]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

Its flavour , saltiness, ...People thirst if they take so much salt , so letting our light shine can make people thirst for what we have...When salt loses its flavour , the only thing that it is worth for is throwing on the ground in snow...

 

[GWH]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

By choosing to repent of having saving faith in Jesus as Messiah (Heb. 6:4-6).
Why? Only God knows (Matt. 13:14-15).

 

[HeIsHere]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

Interestingly salt is a very stable compound but it can become contaminated and lose its "saltiness" if not stored properly,

As well, the quality of the salt varied back then since it was extracted from the sea.... true even today... you will pay more for the better quality sea salt.

I tend to think Jesus was speaking about contamination of the salt... telling his followers protect themselves from contamination.
In today's world >>> false doctrine.

 

[Watchman22]

By choosing to repent of having saving faith in Jesus as Messiah (Heb. 6:4-6).
Why? Only God knows (Matt. 13:14-15).

"Saving faith " instead of " believing " GWH, I like it.

 

[tablet123]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Jesus is speaking to the saints being the salt of the earth for how can the heathen be the salt of the earth when this is a reference of the saints impact on the earth the same as the saints being the light of the world.

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Their works were not appropriate for a Christlike behavior so they lost their savor being a bad example to the world instead of a good example.

And if they do not repent of their lacking then it will not be good.

Because the saints are to be a good example to the world so people will want to embrace the truth.

But if a bad example then it turns people away from Christianity which does not please the Father.

 

[tourist]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

Maybe he meant savior.

 

[Ceph]

People have their flavors: 'Skilled in this and able to handle that well, and prone to this and has that about them'
All the different ways different buildings are decorated in a city to identify their line of business, that's their salt.

People have their personalites and you expect them by the way they are, not just their names or their occupation.
But if someone is just completely base having absolutely no virtuous gift of personality, what are they?

And salt is not limited to what other people see.

 

[Deuteronomy]

How can we lose our savour.

Hello God-fearing, I think John Stott (a British theologian) said it well when he wrote the following in his commentary on Matthew 5:13.

Christian saltiness is Christian character as depicted in the beatitudes, committed Christian discipleship exemplified in both deed and word. For effectiveness the Christian must retain his Christlikeness, as salt must retain its saltness. If Christians become assimilated to non-Christians and contaminated by the impurities of the world, they lose their influence. The influence of Christians in and on society depends on their being distinct, not identical.​

​

Dr Lloyd-Jones emphasizes this: ‘The glory of the Gospel is that when the Church is absolutely different from the world, she invariably attracts it. It is then that the world is made to listen to her message, though it may hate it at first.’ Otherwise, if we Christians are indistinguishable from non-Christians, we are useless. We might as well be discarded like saltless salt, ‘thrown out and trodden under foot by men’. ~Stott, J. R. W., The message of the Sermon on the mount (Matthew 5-7), InterVarsity Press.​

Also, I believe that Matthew 5:13-16 should be taken together as a passage of Scripture, as we are called by the Lord Jesus to be both "salt" and "light" in this lost world, a continual blessing for the good of all.

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - I also thought that you might enjoy seeing some additional verses that have interesting things to say about salt (which, as you probably know, was a very important and valuable commodity in the ancient world).

2 Chronicles 13​

5 Do you not know that the LORD God of Israel gave the rule over Israel forever to David and his sons by a covenant of salt? ​

​

Mark 9​

50 “Salt is good; but if the salt becomes unsalty, with what will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.” ​

​

Colossians 4​

6 Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person. ​

.

 

[timf]

The purpose of Israel was to be a nation of priests to bring the knowledge of God to the whole world. The illustration of salt is to suggest to Israel that in failing to do what they had been intended, they were useless.

 

[GWH]

The purpose of Israel was to be a nation of priests to bring the knowledge of God to the whole world. The illustration of salt is to suggest to Israel that in failing to do what they had been intended, they were useless.

And in failing to accept Jesus as God's Messiah, they became no better than atheists (John 8:42-44).

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

I think Jesus was speaking hypothetically. Salt cannot lose it's flavor. But if it is adulterated with contaminants the mixture will lose saltiness. The analogy to spiritual life is obvious.

 

[Thaddeus]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

What is Jesus talking about? How can we lose our savour.

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. Luke8:13

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

This seems apt

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple cast out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Revelation 11:1-2​

 

[Deuteronomy]

If you read what He says in mat 7 we find out that we are not 'saved' till Judgement.

21;“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22;Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23;And then I will declare to them, ‘I ~never~ knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Jesus is literally describing a day of judgement where most of us will be judged. The key to reconciling examples in the bible like the thief on the cross who was told today you will be with me in paradise; is that Jesus' judgement is the key. Meaning Jesus can judge you in this life as being saved like the thief on the cross, or it can happen at judgement as described in mat 7

Hello Drich, this is off-topic (as Matthew 5:13 concerns Christian living, service, fighting the good fight in this life, etc., not soteriology), so I'll try to keep it short

As for the idea of Christians not being saved until the Judgment (rather than when we first come to saving faith and are justified by God), what do we do then with the verses that say otherwise? For instance, here's something from the Lord Jesus that speaks to this directly (and that in several different ways).

John 5​

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.​

You know, I think that I'd better end this right here (even though there is more that I'd like to discuss with you, as I don't want to derail @God-fearing's thread). In fact, I think that this topic is worthy of its own thread. Would you be interested in that idea by any chance?

Thanks

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

1 John 5​

11 The witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. ​

12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.​

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may ~know~ that you have eternal life.​

.

 

[Drich]

Hello Drich, this is off-topic (as Matthew 5:13 concerns Christian living, service, fighting the good fight in this life, etc., not soteriology), so I'll try to keep it short

As for the idea of Christians not being saved until the Judgment (rather than when we first come to saving faith and are justified by God), what do we do then with the verses that say otherwise? For instance, here's something from the Lord Jesus that speaks to this directly (and that in several different ways).

John 5​

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.​

You know, I think that I'd better end this right here (even though there is more that I'd like to discuss with you, as I don't want to derail @God-fearing's thread). In fact, I think that this topic is worthy of its own thread. Would you be interested in that idea by any chance?

Thanks

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

1 John 5​

11 The witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. ​

12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.​

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may ~know~ that you have eternal life.​

There are two potential conflicts as you have pointed out here. verse 12 He who has the son has eternal life.

and the word judgement here in your translation leaves the interpretation of the word "judgement" to the reader.

However the word judgement in this passage is not so ambiguous in other translations. For example in the KJV the greek word for judgement (Krisis) is translated condemnation. while condemnation can mean judgement/Evalutation it's contextual meaning has to do with Sentencing. Example: "Your Judgement for your guilty verdict is 5 years hard labor"

John 5: KJV:Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Meaning the word judgement does not focus on the evaluation potion of judged, but rather the punitive side of judgement Eg your sentence or final "judgment."
The word phrase "Has eternal life." out of context would allow one to assume that the judgement for eternal life has already been made. However once you reframe those two words back into the context of scripture we see that the "eternal life" one has been promised is conditional. The condition that have to be met are 1. You must believe (not just acknowledge but act on said beliefs) That Jesus is the one and only son of God and you must believe in the Father who sent Him. Belief meaning we must follow and do what they say do, not just acknowledge them.
Without these two beliefs requiring action, we do not have the promise of eternal life. Judgement day is the time that has been allocated to determine whether or not you have met the requirements of eternal life.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Why? Because again Salvation is not a work we do but a gift from Jesus, that He decides who is to receive this gift. Again look at mat 7:

These men on the day of judgement where fully convinced of their salvation. They like john 5 said confessed with their mouth when they cried out "Lord, Lord" That Jesus was Lord and did many good works in the church from prophesying to driving out demons, yet on the day of judgement Jesus says I NEVER knew you.

Because again, our salvation is not dependent on our efforts OR Our Beliefs. Our Salvation is 100% Dependent on the judgement of Christ. as NO ONE enters the kingdom but through Him. Meaning No one enters the Kingdom because of what church they sat in, what creed they professed, what prayer they prayed, what baptism the took etc etc.. We Enter through the judgement of Christ.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @Drich, I would love to discuss the new points that you made above (and some from your first post too), but since they are concerned with soteriology (and Matthew 5:13 is not), I'd like to move our three existing posts onto a new thread of their own and continue our discussion about them there, if that's ok with you (if we continue with this new and controversial topic here we will derail @God-fearing's thread by doing so, and it seems to me that more needs to be said about the very important topic that she originally broached).

Please let me know as time allows

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

 

[Drich]

Hello @Drich, I would love to discuss the new points that you made above (and some from your first post too), but since they are concerned with soteriology (and Matthew 5:13 is not), I'd like to move our three existing posts onto a new thread of their own and continue our discussion about them there, if that's ok with you (if we continue with this new and controversial topic here we will derail @God-fearing's thread by doing so, and it seems to me that more needs to be said about the very important topic that she originally broached).

Please let me know as time allows

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

sure. by all means start a new thread.