How do angels jibe with the Holy Spirit?

[greenonions]

Jesus is sometimes called the Angel of the LORD, but not every angel is Jesus.

The Holy Spirit can give life, and speak words of life. The Holy Spirit deserves worship, but not angels. The angels can only repeat the words that the Holy Spirit speaks.

Revelation 19:10 (NIV) At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

I don't think angels can give life, but they can do a lot of things such as: accompany God to visit Abraham and then visit Sodom (Gen. 19:1), go up and down Jacob's ladder (Gen. 28:12), meet Jacob (Gen. 32:1), shut the mouths of lions (Dan. 6:22), speak to Joseph (Matt. 1:20, 24; 2:13, 19), attend to Jesus after his temptation (Matt. 4:11), harvest and separate the wicked from the righteous (Matt. 13:39, 49), gather the elect (Matt. 24:31), roll away the stone from Jesus' tomb and talk to the women (Matt. 28:2,5), speak to Zechariah (Luke 1:19), speak to Mary (Luke 1:26), speak to shepherds and praise God (Luke 2:10-14), carry a beggar who died to Abraham's side (Luke 16:22), strengthen Jesus in Gethsemane (Luke 22:43), tell Philip to go to the road to Gaza (Acts 8:26), speak to Cornelius (Acts 10:3), rescue Peter from prison (Acts 12:7-10), worship God (Rev. 5:11-12), hold back the four winds (Rev. 7:1), offer incense (Rev. 8:3), blow trumpets (Rev. 8-9), kill a third of mankind (Rev. 9:15), fight the dragon's angels (Rev. 12:7), give warnings and make announcements (Rev. 14), pour out bowls of wrath (Rev. 16), carry John away in the Spirit into a wilderness (Rev. 17:3)

Revelation 17:3 is an example where the angel works through the power of the Holy Spirit to bring John somewhere.

 

[GWH]

Jesus is sometimes called the Angel of the LORD, but not every angel is Jesus.

The Holy Spirit can give life, and speak words of life. The Holy Spirit deserves worship, but not angels. The angels can only repeat the words that the Holy Spirit speaks.

Revelation 19:10 (NIV) At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

I don't think angels can give life, but they can do a lot of things such as: accompany God to visit Abraham and then visit Sodom (Gen. 19:1), go up and down Jacob's ladder (Gen. 28:12), meet Jacob (Gen. 32:1), shut the mouths of lions (Dan. 6:22), speak to Joseph (Matt. 1:20, 24; 2:13, 19), attend to Jesus after his temptation (Matt. 4:11), harvest and separate the wicked from the righteous (Matt. 13:39, 49), gather the elect (Matt. 24:31), roll away the stone from Jesus' tomb and talk to the women (Matt. 28:2,5), speak to Zechariah (Luke 1:19), speak to Mary (Luke 1:26), speak to shepherds and praise God (Luke 2:10-14), carry a beggar who died to Abraham's side (Luke 16:22), strengthen Jesus in Gethsemane (Luke 22:43), tell Philip to go to the road to Gaza (Acts 8:26), speak to Cornelius (Acts 10:3), rescue Peter from prison (Acts 12:7-10), worship God (Rev. 5:11-12), hold back the four winds (Rev. 7:1), offer incense (Rev. 8:3), blow trumpets (Rev. 8-9), kill a third of mankind (Rev. 9:15), fight the dragon's angels (Rev. 12:7), give warnings and make announcements (Rev. 14), pour out bowls of wrath (Rev. 16), carry John away in the Spirit into a wilderness (Rev. 17:3)

Revelation 17:3 is an example where the angel works through the power of the Holy Spirit to bring John somewhere.

Re "The angels can only repeat the words that the Holy Spirit speaks": Yes, and perhaps they can only repeat the works that the HS does, which seems rather redundant, so--just as the HS was not fully revealed in the OT--maybe His being manifested in angels as well as indwelling saints was not fully revealed in the NT.

 

[GWH]

Well, the trouble with angels is as follows (which is now on our website in the Lesson on controversial issues):

It is rather difficult to jibe the role of angels with the role of the Holy Spirit (HS) in the Bible, so let us explore that question starting from Hebrews 1:14, “Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?” Does this teaching not conflict with the ministry of the HS described in the Gospel of John as our advocate (14:16-17), the testifier about Jesus (15:26) and guide (16:12-15)? I am aware that the word ‘angel’ simply means messenger, and that the Bible calls angels men in several places in the Bible, and I find references to either angels or the HS in the NT, but are there any places that describe them working together?

The main reason I wonder about angels is because 1TM 2:3-5 teaches that there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, probably addressing the gnostic religions of that day, which viewed angels as mediators between man and God. Thus, perhaps we should think of OT angels as akin to (or functioning in a way similar to) the Mosaic Sacrificial Law: The Law foreshadowed the Gospel, and the angels foreshadowed the Holy Spirit. The roles of angels and the HS are not very different, and the mediatory role of angels seems comparable with the problem of celebrating Christmas and Easter with Santa and the Bunny, because their personalities and roles compete with glorifying the person and work of Jesus. Why not credit the HS with helping souls in every way? I understand that the HS is the Comforter, so why are ministering angels needed? (It seems like too many cooks in the kitchen :^)

Part of the reason for considering this interpretation of Scripture is because there are some who say that angels work to impart God’s graces to us. Also, there are those who think that praying to the angels and devotion toward them is a good practice. Although there is Scripture supporting belief in angels, this opens up a can of worms about which God’s Word is vague. Do angels have moral free will and thus need God’s salvation, or are they robotic and thus viewable as mere extensions of God’s HS, so we should only glorify them with that understanding? I perceive that the hypothesis “angels should grow less as the HS is glorified in the church era” (between Acts and REV) is comparable to the person and role of John with regard to Jesus in JN 3:30, and so folks might consider whether the OT angels were actually manifestations of the HS described by souls before revelation per the NT that God is Triune.

Interpreting angelology in the OT in light of the NT following the examples of Jesus and Paul, angels can be viewed as preparing the way for the Gospel of Christ. The Law of Moses revealed our sinfulness, the Sacrificial System pointed to Christ’s atonement, some of the prophets revealed that God’s Plan of Salvation (POS) included the Gentiles, and angels may have manifested the HS. Thus, as John said with regard to Jesus in JN 3:30, and just as the NT superseded the OT per Hebrews 7-9, perhaps we should allow the angels to become less important as the Holy Spirit becomes greater, and wait until heaven to understand how angels fit into God’s POS, (along with other problematic passages in the Bible, such as baptism for the dead). It is not a matter of replacing the angels but of keeping them in their proper place. Like problematic gifts per 1CR 12:30-14:1, perhaps the role of messenger has ceased for angels and been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

This understanding is not taught explicitly in the NT, but there are the hints and implications that have been cited. Most scriptural statements about angels seem unclear, so it is better to celebrate the Holy Spirit, about whom much is clearly taught in the NT, while understand that Satan is the evil angel/spirit of evil, whom should be despised. Occam’s Razor is not a verse in the Bible, but affirming that the Holy Spirit may be the holy angels/spirits of the OT, who do God’s will because they ARE the one God perceived as diversified (whereas in truth He is Triune), is theologically simpler or applies the hermeneutical principle of interpreting the unclear passages by applying the more clear biblical teachings. In this way the role of the HS crowds out angels or makes them/their role superfluous
during the church era, so churches should not elevate/glorify angels.

As Easter approaches, the comparison of the competing roles of angels and the HS with celebrating Easter with the Bunny becomes more current, because the "personality" competes with glorifying the person and work of Jesus. (Eggs are not a problem, because they can symbolize new life in Christ.) I have pondered whether Christians should make a bigger deal of Easter than of Christmas, but I guess it would also become commercialized, so never mind.

 

[GWH]

As Easter approaches, the comparison of the competing roles of angels and the HS with celebrating Easter with the Bunny becomes more current, because the "personality" competes with glorifying the person and work of Jesus. (Eggs are not a problem, because they can symbolize new life in Christ.) I have pondered whether Christians should make a bigger deal of Easter than of Christmas, but I guess it would also become commercialized, so never mind.

Regarding the Easter story, per Luke two angels appeared to the women as they visited Jesus' open tomb (LK 24:4&23), but the HS (who had made Mary pregnant in 1:35 and revealed Jesus was Messiah to Simeon in 2:25-27) was not manifested until the day of Pentecost (ACTS 2:4). (Angels announced the birth of Jesus to the shepherds in LK 2:9-15.)

However, per John no angels were mentioned outside the tomb, but Mary saw two angels seated where Jesus' body had been, who asked her why she was crying (JN 20:11-13). Then that same evening Jesus appeared to the disciples where they were meeting and breathed on them and said, "Receive the HS", who had been foretold in JN 14, 15 & 16.

Per Mark the women entered the tomb and saw an angel sitting on the right side, who said to go tell the disciples that Jesus was risen and would appear to them in Galilee. (The HS was mentioned in 1:8 as baptizing believers by Jesus.)

Per Matthew the two Marys went to the tomb and an angel of the Lord rolled back the stone and sat on it, inviting them to look inside and see that Jesus had risen, then go and tell the disciples Jesus was going ahead of them to Galilee. (The HS was mentioned as impregnating Mary in 1:18, baptizing believers in 3:11, descending on Jesus in 3:16, and leading Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted in 4:1).

I guess the mention of the angel who named Jesus in LK 2:21 and
the HS who moved Simeon in LK 2:25 is the closest they come to working together?