how do demons work today?

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TheLearner

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#1
Use Scripture and the Early Church Fathers with quotes and links to source of each quote, please.

We know that he blinds unbelievers.

2 Corinthians 4:4 whose unbelieving minds the god of this world hath blinded, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

"
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
But if our Gospel is veiled, it is veiled in them that are lost; in whom the God of this world has blinded the eyes of the unbelieving.

As he said also before, To some a savor from death unto death, to others a savor from life unto life, 2 Corinthians 2:16 so he says here too. But what is the God of this world? Those that are infected with Marcion's notions , affirm that this is said of the Creator, the just only, and not good; for they say that there is a certain God, just and not good. But the Manichees say that the devil is here intended, desiring from this passage to introduce another creator of the world besides the True One, very senselessly. For the Scripture uses often to employ the term God, not in regard of the dignity of that so designated, but of the weakness of those in subjection to it; as when it calls Mammon lord, and the belly god. But neither is the belly therefore God, nor Mammon Lord, save only of those who bow down themselves to them. But we assert of this passage that it is spoken neither of the devil nor of another creator, but of the God of the Universe, and that it is to be read thus; God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world. For the world to come has no unbelievers; but the present only. But if any one should read it even otherwise, as, for instance, the God of this world; neither does this afford any handle, for this does not show Him to be the God of this world only. For He is called the God of Heaven, Psalm 136:26, etc. yet is He not the God of Heaven only; and we say, 'God of the present day;' yet we say this not as limiting His power to it alone. And moreover He is called the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; Exodus 3:6, etc. and yet He is not the God of them alone. And one may find many other like testimonies in the Scriptures. How then has He blinded them? Not by working unto this end; away with the thought! But by suffering and allowing it. For it is usual with the Scripture so to speak, as when it says, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind. For when they themselves first disbelieved, and rendered themselves unworthy to see the mysteries; He Himself also thereafter permitted it. But what did it behoove Him to do? To draw them by force, and reveal to those who would not see? But so they would have despised the more, and would not have seen either. Wherefore also he added,

That the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ should not dawn upon them.

Not that they might disbelieve in God, but that unbelief might not see what are the things within, as also He enjoined us, commanding not to cast the pearls before the swine. Matthew 7:6 For had He revealed even to those who disbelieve, their disease would have been the rather aggravated. For if one compel a man laboring under ophthalmia to look at the sunbeams, he the rather increases his infirmity. Therefore the physicians even shut them up in darkness, so as not to aggravate their disorder. So then here also we must consider that these persons indeed became unbelievers of themselves, but having become so, they no longer saw the secret things of the Gospel, God thenceforth excluding its beams from them. As also he said to the disciples, Therefore I speak unto them in proverbs , Matthew 13:13 because hearing they hear not. But what I say may also become clearer by an example; suppose a Greek, accounting our religion to be fables. This man then, how will he be more advantaged? By going in and seeing the mysteries, or by remaining without? Therefore he says, That the light should not dawn upon them, still dwelling on the history of Moses. For what happened to the Jews in his case, this happens to all unbelievers in the case of the Gospel. And what is that which is overshadowed, and which is not illuminated unto them? Hear him saying, That the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ who is the Image of God, should not dawn upon them. Namely, that the Cross is the salvation of the world, and His glory; that this Crucified One himself is about to come with much splendor; all the other things, those present, those to come, those seen, those not seen, the unspeakable splendor of the things looked for. Therefore also he said, dawn, that you may not look for the whole here, for that which is [here] given is only, as it were, a little dawning of the Spirit. Therefore, also above as indicating this, he spoke of savor; 2 Corinthians 2:16 and again, earnest, 2 Corinthians 1:25 showing that the greater part remains there. But nevertheless all these things have been hidden from them; but had been hidden because they disbelieved first. Then to show that they are not only ignorant of the Glory of Christ, but of the Father's also, since they know not His, he added, Who is the Image of God? For do not halt at Christ only. For as by Him you see the Father, so if you are ignorant of His Glory, neither will you know the Father's." http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220208.htm
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#2
For those interested you can find a bit of a study Here on demons and things connected with them...
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#3
The devil is using the approach of peace in these last days so he can cause the nations to come together to deceive them.

Which the Bible says the man of sin by peace shall destroy many, and shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

The new age movement interprets the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve, which they say peace for the world, and it is from seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

The devil liked to use outright war, and cruelty in the past, but now is using peace in these last days to get the world to come together, and then when the nations come together then the cruelty will come out.

For the world could never rebel against God until all nations, governments, come together in agreement that is against the operation of God.

And the new age movement does not believe that the New Age Christ will help them until the nations come together as one to try to establish peace on earth, but this is a deception of the devil to get the nations to come together to rebel against God, like he caused one third of the angels to rebel against God.

And God has to end this sin business on earth one day so He is allowing the world to have their way for a certain amount of time, and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom so He can put them down.

So the devil can work in the world more than he could in the past, and one day he will not be restrained and off his leash concerning the wicked, and deceive all people who do not love God to follow the New Age Christ.

Which Alice Bailey, the biggest prophet of the new age movement says Lucifer is a Solar Angel that descended from Venus, thus the fall, to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man, and will help them to evolve in the future to be greater and spiritual, so the fall was not a fall in to sin and disgrace, but a sacrifice of Lucifer for humanity.

So they are looking at Lucifer as not bad but a helper of mankind to evolve and be better and to have peace at this time.

The new age movement is the future for this sinful world.

The new age movement is the agenda and the conspiracy that says peace for the world, but it is a deception of the devil to get the nations to come together so he can deceive them to rebel against God, but God is allowing it to happen so He can end this sin business on earth.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#4
Why early church fathers ?

Demons are simply lying spirits.

What God says satan the father of lies says the opposite turning things upside down as if they were inspired from earth in order to take away the faith that is inspired from above. When God calls peace he calls destruction. What God calls together he separates. What God calls separate the god of this world makes it as one in order to remove the understandings that is not inspired from above. The upside down God

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
 

TheLearner

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#5
Why early church fathers ?

Demons are simply lying spirits.

What God says satan the father of lies says the opposite turning things upside down as if they were inspired from earth in order to take away the faith that is inspired from above. When God calls peace he calls destruction. What God calls together he separates. What God calls separate the god of this world makes it as one in order to remove the understandings that is not inspired from above. The upside down God

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
One of the best ways to learn about an opposing force in wars is to study their tactics in history so not to repeat any of our mistakes.
That is a good reason to look at history including the Church Fathers and Councils.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#7
Use Scripture and the Early Church Fathers with quotes and links to source of each quote, please.
You have posted this as a quotation from the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, and the title is Homily 8 on Second Corinthians by one of the Early Church Fathers.

1. You should have broken this quotation up into paragraphs. No one should be expected to read one continuous passage without any breaks or divisions.

2. This is false doctrine since this writer has equated *the god of this world* (Satan) with the one true and living God, and also capitalized *the god of this world*.
But if any one should read it even otherwise, as, for instance, the God of this world; neither does this afford any handle, for this does not show Him to be the God of this world only. For He is called the God of Heaven, Psalm 136:26, etc.
3. The Manicheans were heretics but they correctly identified *the god of this world* with the devil (as mentioned by this writer). But according to this writer they were in error, and he is presenting his false belief as truth.

4. This quotation says absolutely nothing about demons, but this quotation is a good example of how Satan presents lies as truth to believers. It is also a good example of how the Early Church Fathers managed to mix truth and error in their teachings.

5. Satan is indeed the *god of this world* and that title was given to him by divine inspiration. What this means is that all the secular and ungodly world systems, as well as all the false attractions of this world, and all the false religions of this world, eventually come from Satan. But the way he blinds the minds of unbelievers is by preventing them from knowing the true God and believing that Jesus of Nazareth is indeed God who became Man, and died for the sins of the whole world, and that there is no salvation outside of Christ.

6. As to demons in the world today, they are very active within all the false religions of the world, as well as Occultism. Indeed the Bible identifies all pagan false gods as being demons in reality.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#8
Use Scripture and the Early Church Fathers with quotes and links to source of each quote, please...
I'd suggest that you read C.S. Lewis' The Screwtape Letters.
 

p_rehbein

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Sep 4, 2013
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#9
Contrary to what some believe, they HAVE NOT Unionized...…..well, not yet anyhoo….. so they are pretty much still the slaves of the deceiver, the one who was a liar from the beginning. Slave labor is cost effective…….and can be spiritually deceptive.
 

TheLearner

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#10
*the god of this world*

"
But not a wisdom of this world. For where is the use of the wisdom which is without, terminating here and proceeding no further, and not even here able to profit its possessors?

Now by the rulers of the world, here, he means not certain demons, as some suspect , but those in authority, those in power, those who esteem the thing worth contending about, philosophers, rhetoricians and writers of speeches (λογογράφους). For these were the dominant sort and often became leaders of the people.

Rulers of the world he calls them, because beyond the present world their dominion extends not. Wherefore, he adds further, which are coming to nought; disparaging it both on its own account, and from those who wield it. For having shown that it is false, that it is foolish, that it can discover nothing, that it is weak, he shows moreover that it is but of short duration."http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220107.htm

"1. As to their affirming that Paul said plainly in the Second [Epistle] to the Corinthians, In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not, 2 Corinthians 4:4 and maintaining that there is indeed one god of this world, but another who is beyond all principality, and beginning, and power, we are not to blame if they, who give out that they do themselves know mysteries beyond God, know not how to read Paul. For if any one read the passage thus — according to Paul's custom, as I show elsewhere, and by many examples, that he uses transposition of words — In whom God, then pointing it off, and making a slight interval, and at the same time read also the rest [of the sentence] in one [clause], has blinded the minds of them of this world that believe not, he shall find out the true [sense]; that it is contained in the expression, God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world. And this is shown by means of the little interval [between the clause]. For Paul does not say, the God of this world, as if recognising any other beyond Him; but he confessed God as indeed God. And he says, the unbelievers of this world, because they shall not inherit the future age of incorruption. I shall show from Paul himself, how it is that God has blinded the minds of them that believe not, in the course of this work, that we may not just at present distract our mind from the matter in hand, [by wandering] at large. "
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103307.htm

2 Corinthians 4 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
4 God, with his mercy, gave us this work to do, so we don’t give up. 2 But we have turned away from secret and shameful ways. We don’t use trickery, and we don’t change the teaching of God. We teach the truth plainly. This is how we show people who we are. And this is how they can know in their hearts what kind of people we are before God. 3 The Good News that we tell people may be hidden, but it is hidden only to those who are lost. 4 The ruler[a] of this world has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They cannot see the light of the Good News—the message about the divine greatness of Christ. Christ is the one who is exactly like God. 5 We don’t tell people about ourselves. But we tell people that Jesus Christ is Lord, and we tell them that we are your servants for Jesus. 6 God once said, “Let light shine out of the darkness!” And this is the same God who made his light shine in our hearts to let us know that his own divine greatness is seen in the face of Christ.
 

TheLearner

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#11
Objection 3. Further, the assaults of the flesh and the world are enough for man's exercise. But God permits His elect to be assailed that they may be exercised. Therefore there is no need for them to be assailed by the demons.

On the contrary, The Apostle says (Ephesians 6:12): "Our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against Principalities and Powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places."

I answer that, Two things may be considered in the assault of the demons—the assault itself, and the ordering thereof. The assault itself is due to the malice of the demons, who through envy endeavor to hinder man's progress; and through pride usurp a semblance of Divine power, by deputing certain ministers to assail man, as the angels of God in their various offices minister to man's salvation. But the ordering of the assault is from God, Who knows how to make orderly use of evil by ordering it to good. On the other hand, in regard to the angels, both their guardianship and the ordering thereof are to be referred to God as their first author. http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1114.htm

2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 [Full Chapter]
and with all the deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...
 

TheLearner

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#12
Moral. If then it is a warfare, if such are the forces arrayed against us, if the principalities are incorporeal, if they are rulers of the world, if they are the spiritual hosts of wickedness, how, tell me, can you live in self-indulgence? How can you be dissolute? How if we are unarmed, shall we be able to overcome? These words let every one repeat to himself every day, whenever he is under the influence of anger, or of lust, whenever he is aiming, and all to no profit, after this languid life. Let him hearken to the blessed Paul, saying to him, Our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers. A harder warfare this than that which is matter of sense, a fiercer conflict. Think how long time this enemy is wrestling, for what it is that he is fighting, and be more guarded than ever. Nay, a man will say, but as he is the devil, he ought to have been removed out of the way, and then all had been saved. These are the pretenses to which some of your indolent ones in self-defense give utterance. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/how-do-demons-work-today.186738/#post-4001562
 

TheLearner

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#13
5. Therefore does he warn and say, We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. Any one might suppose this meant against the kings of the earth, against the powers of this world. How so? Are they not flesh and blood? And once for all it is said, not against flesh and blood. Turn your attention from all men. What enemies then remain? Against principalities and powers of spiritual wickedness, the rulers of the world. It might seem as though he gave the devil and his angels more than they have. It is so, he has called them the rulers of the world. But to prevent misunderstanding, he explains what this world is, of which they are the rulers. The rulers of the world, of this darkness. What is, of the world, of this darkness? The world is full of those who love it, and of unbelievers, over whom he is ruler. This the Apostle calls darkness. This darkness the devil and his angels are the rulers of. This is not the natural, and unchangeable darkness: this darkness changes, and becomes light; it believes, and by believing is enlightened. When this takes place in it, it will hear the words, For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord. For when you were darkness, you were not in the Lord: again, when you are light, you are light not in yourselves, but in the Lord. For what have you which you have not received? Inasmuch then as they are invisible enemies, by invisible means must they be subdued. A visible enemy indeed you may overcome by blows; your invisible enemy you conquer by belief. A man is a visible enemy; to strike a blow is visible also. The devil is an invisible enemy; to believe is invisible also. Against invisible enemies then there is an invisible fight.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160317.htm

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
 

TheLearner

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#14
3. Pour forth the weapon, and stop the way against them that persecute me Psalm 34:3. Who are they that persecute you? Haply your neighbour, or he whom you have offended, or to whom you have done wrong, or who would take away what is yours, or against whom you preach the truth, or whose sin you rebuke, or whom living ill by your well living you offend. There are indeed even these enemies to us, and they persecute us: but other enemies we are taught to know, those against whom we fight invisibly, of whom the Apostle warns us, saying, We wrestle not against flesh and blood, Ephesians 6:12 that is, against men; not against those whom you see, but against those whom you see not; against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the world, of this darkness....The whole world lies in wickedness; therefore the Apostle explained of what world they were rulers, he said, of this darkness. The rulers of this world, I say, are the rulers of this darkness.... http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801035.htm
 

TheLearner

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#15
Who then is to be found the faithful and wise servant? Who are they that are deemed worthy of such good things? How miserable are those who fail! For if we were forever to weep, should we do anything worthy of the occasion? For were you to make mention of hells innumerable, you would name nothing equal to that pain which the soul sustains, when all the world is in confusion, when the trumpets are sounding, when the Angels are rushing forward, the first, then the second, then the third, then ten thousand ranks, are pouring forth upon the earth; then the Cherubim, (and many are these and infinite;) the Seraphim; when He Himself is coming, with His ineffable glory; when those meet Him, who had gone to gather the elect into the midst; when Paul and his companions, and all who in his time had been approved, are crowned, are proclaimed aloud, are honored by the King, before all His heavenly host. For if hell did not exist, how fearful a thing it is, that the one part should be honored, and the other dishonored! Hell, I confess, is intolerable, yea, very intolerable, but more intolerable than it is the loss of the Kingdom. Consider; if any king, or the son of a king, having taken his departure, and been successful in innumerable wars, and become the object of admiration, should with his army entire, return to any city, in his chariot, with his trophies, with his innumerable ranks of golden shields, with his spearmen, his bodyguard all about him, while the whole city was adorned with crowns, while all the rulers of the world accompanied him, and all the soldiery of foreign nations followed him as captives, then præfects, satraps, and in the presence of all the rulers, and all that splendor, he should receive the citizens who meet him, and kiss them, and stretch forth his hand, and give them freedom of access, and converse with them, all standing around, as with friends, and tell them that all that journey was undertaken for their sake, and should lead them into his palace, and give them a share of it, even if the rest should not be punished, to how great punishment would not this be equal? But if in the case of men it were a bitter thing to fall away from this glory, much more is it so with God, when all the heavenly Powers are present with the King, when the demons, bound, and bowing down their heads, and the devil himself is led along in chains, and all military force that opposes itself, when the Powers of the heavens, when He Himself, comes upon the clouds.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230213.htm
 

TheLearner

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#16
It is this that makes the Apostle, though he well knew the perils of the world and the weakness of the flesh, lay special stress on the greater dangers that come from the assaults of those mighty spirits of evil in whom he recognized our real and most formidable foes--"Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places . . . Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, having on the breastplate of justice, and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; in all things taking the shield of faith, wherewith you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one" (Ephesians 6:11, 16).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

6. With weariness he had pined away; by calling to mind God, he had been delighted, again in babbling he had fainted: what follows? All mine enemies have anticipated watches Psalm 76:4. All mine enemies have kept watch over me; they have exceeded in keeping watch over me; in watching they have been beforehand with me. Where do they not lay traps? Have not mine enemies anticipated all watches? For who are these enemies, but they of whom the Apostle says, You have not wrestling against flesh and blood. Ephesians 6:12 ...Against the devil and his angels we are waging hostilities. Rulers of the world he has called them, because they do themselves rule the lovers of the world. For they do not rule the world, as if they were rulers of heaven and earth: but he is calling sinners the world....With the devil and his angels there is no concord. They do themselves grudge us the kingdom of Heaven. They cannot at all be appeased towards us: because all mine enemies have anticipated watches. They have watched more to deceive than I to guard myself.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801077.htm
 

TheLearner

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#17
17. You believe that one God made all creatures, visible and invisible. Arius, who says that all things were created through the Son, would also confess this. If you had been accused of holding Marcion's heresy, which introduces two Gods, the one the God of goodness, the other of justice, and asserts that the former is the Creator of things invisible, the latter of things visible, your answer would have been well adapted to satisfy me on a question of that sort. You believe it is the Trinity which creates the universe. Arians and Semi-Arians deny that, blasphemously maintaining that the Holy Spirit is not the Creator, but is Himself created. But who now lays it to your charge that you are an Arian? You say that the souls of men are not a part of the nature of God, as though you were now called a Manichæan by Epiphanius. You protest against those who assert that souls are made out of angels, and say that their nature, in its fall, becomes the substance of humanity. Don't conceal what you know, nor feign a simplicity which you do not possess. Origen never said that souls are made out of angels, since he teaches that the term angels describes an office, not a nature. For in his book Περὶ ᾿Αρχῶν he says that angels, and thrones, and dominions, powers and rulers of the world, and of darkness, and Ephesians 1:21 every name which is named, not only in this world, but in that which is to come, become the souls of those bodies which they have taken on either through their own desire or for the sake of their appointed duties; that the sun also, himself, and the moon, and the company of all the stars, are the souls of what were once reasonable and incorporeal creatures; and that though now subject to vanity, that is to say, to fiery bodies which we, in our ignorance and inexperience, call luminaries of the world, they shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption and brought to the liberty of the glory of the sons of God. Wherefore every creature groans and travails in pain together. And the Apostle laments, saying, Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? This is not the time to controvert this doctrine, which is partly heathen, and partly Platonic. About ten years ago in my Commentary on Ecclesiastes, and in my explanation of the Epistle to the Ephesians, I think my own views were made clear to thoughtful men.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3004.htm
 

p_rehbein

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#18
Isn't all of this pretty much Catholic teaching?

Just wondering...…...
 

TheLearner

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#19
As you can see from my survey of the Church Fathers, most held my opinion, one held yours.

So, saying my opinion is false doctrine is kinda rude.

But, thanks for giving the opportunity to look at this text in depth.

Net Bible,


4:4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe7 so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel8 of Christ,9 who is the image of God.

https://bible.org/netbible/

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible
In whom the god of this world hath blinded,.... The description of the persons to whom the Gospel is hid, is here further carried on; in which the character of Satan is given, who is here styled "the god of this world"; just as he is by Christ, "the prince of this world", John 12:31 not because he had any hand in the making of it, or has any concern in the government of it, or in the disposal of men or things in it; but because of his influence over the worst, and greatest part of the world; which lies in wickedness, under the power of this wicked one, being led captive by him at his will; who have voluntarily given themselves up to him, and whose lusts they will do; and so declare themselves to be his children, and him their Father, yea, their god: the influence he has over them is, he

Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible
In whom — Translate, “In whose case.”

god of this world — The worldly make him their God (Philemon 3:19). He is, in fact, “the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that ruleth in the children of disobedience” (Ephesians 2:2).

Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament
The god of this world (ο τεος του αιωνος τουτου — ho theos tou aiōnos toutou). “Age,” more exactly, as in 1 Corinthians 1:20. Satan is “the god of this age,” a phrase nowhere else in the N.T., but Jesus uses the same idea in John 12:31; John 14:30 and Paul in Ephesians 2:2; Ephesians 6:12 and John in 1 John 5:19. Satan claimed the rule over the world in the temptations with Jesus.
 

TheLearner

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#20
Isn't all of this pretty much Catholic teaching?

Just wondering...…...

No, it reflects the history of interpretation by fellow Christians. I also, just posted three well known and respected commentaries on the topic which agrees with my understanding. One is A.T. Robertson a very educated Greek Scholar.