How do preachers or teachers explain this?

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The reason you understand the events of Noah’s time only as a story that happened in the Old Testament is because you see them primarily from a literal and historical perspective.

But we who have come to know the one true God understand that these things are not merely stories. Everything recorded in the Scriptures carries a spiritual meaning and serves as a message from God. Through His Word, God has revealed to us the spiritual meaning behind these events.

That is why we can recognize the fulfillment of these things in our own time. What happened in the days of Noah was not recorded merely as an account of the past, but also carries a spiritual message that God wants His people to understand today.
You keep saying the same thing. I know that the historical accounts of events recorded in the Bible are not merely stories. (I never use the term "Bible stories" for that reason). They are true, and they really happened.

You say they also carry a spiritual message. Perhaps you missed what I wrote in my post: " I am certainly not saying that there are no spiritual lessons for Christians from the account of Noah and the ark. He built a literal ark, because God commanded him to do so. Noah is an example to us of the importance of obeying God, The account in Genesis also tells us that Noah found grace in God's sight, so Noah is also an example to us of the vital importance of God's grace. So I am not limiting what we can learn from Bible accounts to their literal meaning,"

I say again, I also have by God's grace come to know the one true God. Please stop suggesting that I don't know Him by that phrase you use so often in your posts, "we who have come to know the one true God."
 
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Paul replacing Judas is built on a system, not on what Scripture actually says. Galatians 1:1 proves Paul’s apostleship came directly from Christ, but it does not prove Matthias was rejected; it only proves Paul was not commissioned by human authority. Acts 1 says the apostles prayed, asked the Lord to reveal His choice, cast lots to place the decision entirely in God’s hands, and then Luke — under the Spirit’s inspiration — records that Matthias “was numbered with the eleven apostles.” You are trying to overturn a direct statement of Scripture with an argument from silence, because the New Testament never later uses the title “apostle Matthias.” But by that rule, half of the Twelve lose their apostleship, since Scripture never calls Andrew, Thomas, Philip, Bartholomew, Thaddaeus, or Simon the Zealot “the apostle” either. Paul was indeed “another apostle,” but his calling does not erase Matthias — it simply shows Christ can appoint more than twelve. The real issue behind your argument is your claim that human recognition of ministry is invalid, yet Acts 1 shows the apostles submitting their choice to the Lord, not replacing His authority.
What we are discussing is Ephesians 4:11. The question is: Who appoints or chooses the people mentioned in this verse—the human beings, or the Lord Jesus?

Although the word “apostle” is not explicitly mentioned in the passages you cited regarding those whom the Lord chose, Andrew, Thomas, Philip, Bartholomew, Thaddaeus, or Simon, there is no doubt that they were already apostles. That is not the issue we are discussing.

The real issue is whether human beings have the authority to appoint or choose those mentioned in Ephesians 4:11, or whether only the Lord Jesus has the authority to appoint them.

The fact that the apostles were apostles does not mean that they were incapable of making mistakes. They were human beings just like us, and they could make mistakes. And what they did in this particular matter turned out to be wrong.

As evidence of this, the title “Apostle Matthias” is never mentioned in the Holy Scriptures afterward. On the other hand, Paul is explicitly referred to as an apostle, which serves as evidence that Paul was the one who took Judas’s place. And the one who appointed Paul was the Lord Jesus Himself.

Therefore, the point is not whether Matthias was considered one of the apostles at that particular moment in Acts 1. The real question is whether the appointment described in Ephesians 4:11 comes from human authority or from the Lord Jesus. According to the Scriptures, the true appointment of an apostle comes from the Lord Himself, not from human election.

And from what is written in Scripture itself, it is already clear that it is the Lord Jesus Himself who gives apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. It is not human beings who appoint or give these ministries.
That is why the Scripture says, “And He gave.”
EPHESIANS 4:11

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

I am not trying to argue. I am simply sharing the truth found in the Word of God, because I am seeking God’s lost sheep. It is enough for me to have shared the truth that the Lord Jesus alone is the One who appoints and chooses. Just as He personally chose each of the twelve apostles, so it is He who appoints those whom He calls.

For if it were not the Lord Jesus who appoints them, and if human beings were also allowed to make such appointments, then Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 would be contradicted, because circumstances and events would change and pass away.

I am not forcing you to believe either. If you believe that human beings can appoint those mentioned in Ephesians 4:11, then you are free to follow those appointed by men.

But as for us who have come to know the one true God, He has revealed to us the spiritual message through His Word, which is called the truth. Therefore, we will never recognize as legitimate those who are appointed by men in connection with Ephesians 4:11.
 
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Well, perhaps you can tell me. Where are we told that Saul/Paul was a replacement for Judas?
The issue we are discussing is clear. Because Judas fell away, he needed to be replaced so that the number of apostles could once again be twelve.
You were the one who said that two more became apostles, Matthias and Paul.
That is why I said it could not be two, because only one person was needed to replace Judas.

And now you are asking where it is stated that Paul became the replacement for Judas.
 
You keep saying the same thing. I know that the historical accounts of events recorded in the Bible are not merely stories. (I never use the term "Bible stories" for that reason). They are true, and they really happened.

You say they also carry a spiritual message. Perhaps you missed what I wrote in my post: " I am certainly not saying that there are no spiritual lessons for Christians from the account of Noah and the ark. He built a literal ark, because God commanded him to do so. Noah is an example to us of the importance of obeying God, The account in Genesis also tells us that Noah found grace in God's sight, so Noah is also an example to us of the vital importance of God's grace. So I am not limiting what we can learn from Bible accounts to their literal meaning,"

I say again, I also have by God's grace come to know the one true God. Please stop suggesting that I don't know Him by that phrase you use so often in your posts, "we who have come to know the one true God."
I cannot leave out the statement, “We who have come to know the one true God,” because it is the truth. This is how we testify to the truth expressed in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. What you are saying now is no different from what the Jews were saying to the Lord Jesus. "Please stop suggesting that I don't know Him by that phrase you use so often in your posts,"
JOHN 8:41
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God

However, the Lord Jesus had to speak the truth: He knew God the Father, whereas they did not know Him. The painful truth is that because they insisted that they knew God the Father, they were called liars.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Because the Lord Jesus, in His role as the Son of God, is the model whom we follow, as stated in 1 Peter 2:21. Therefore, I cannot grant your request.

Because you keep asking me not to say the words, “We who have come to know the one true God,” I also need to tell you this truth.
Just as the Lord Jesus is our example, we must also declare that we know the one true God. Otherwise, we would become liars, just like you.
JOHN 8:55
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
 
You keep saying the same thing. I know that the historical accounts of events recorded in the Bible are not merely stories. (I never use the term "Bible stories" for that reason). They are true, and they really happened.

You say they also carry a spiritual message. Perhaps you missed what I wrote in my post: " I am certainly not saying that there are no spiritual lessons for Christians from the account of Noah and the ark. He built a literal ark, because God commanded him to do so. Noah is an example to us of the importance of obeying God, The account in Genesis also tells us that Noah found grace in God's sight, so Noah is also an example to us of the vital importance of God's grace. So I am not limiting what we can learn from Bible accounts to their literal meaning,"

I say again, I also have by God's grace come to know the one true God. Please stop suggesting that I don't know Him by that phrase you use so often in your posts, "we who have come to know the one true God."
What God desires in His Word is both knowledge and wisdom. We cannot have knowledge alone without wisdom.
Knowledge is what we have learned, whereas wisdom is the application of the knowledge we have gained.

It is possible to have knowledge without wisdom.
However, you cannot have wisdom without knowledge.
What I see in what you are saying is that it consists of knowledge without wisdom.

You simply believe that Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 are written in Scripture.
But you cannot prove them because you do not see them continuously happening throughout all generations, just as what happened in the time of Noah.

Therefore, it does not align with the truth.
 
EPHESIANS 4:11
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

The Lord clearly declared that He Himself would give apostles, evangelists, prophets, pastors, and teachers. Yet, it is people who appoint or elect them, rather than God.

According to human understanding, the Lord can no longer make these appointments because He is no longer physically present on earth. Therefore, people take it upon themselves to choose and appoint those who will hold these offices. Consequently, such appointments are not necessarily in accordance with the truth or with the will of God.

Why do people fail to understand what the apostles actually did, even though they can clearly read the account? Because Judas had fallen, they chose someone to take his place. There is no doubt that the apostles belonged to God. They even prayed to the Lord, asking Him to guide them in choosing the person who would replace Judas. Yet they ultimately chose Matthias as Judas’s replacement.

However, if the Lord alone is the One who appoints, and no human being has the authority to appoint, then even though these men were apostles, the one they appointed to replace Judas was rejected by the Lord.
ACTS 1:20-26
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

How much more, then, would this apply to those who make such appointments today, when they are not even confirmed apostles of the Lord like the eleven apostles were? Surely, the Lord would not acknowledge or accept such appointments.

Therefore, just as there were false prophets during the time of the New Testament, there are likewise pseudo-Christians today—people who may profess to follow Christ but whose teachings and practices are not truly in accordance with the truth.

Yes, but the worst preachers are the professors who are corrupting the next generation with atheism.
A few people realize that this is the root of our society's cancer, but I have heard no one state the solution.
 
The issue we are discussing is clear. Because Judas fell away, he needed to be replaced so that the number of apostles could once again be twelve.
You were the one who said that two more became apostles, Matthias and Paul.
That is why I said it could not be two, because only one person was needed to replace Judas.

And now you are asking where it is stated that Paul became the replacement for Judas.
Yes I am asking that, because as far as I know, although the Bible often talks about Paul as an apostle, it never says that he was appointed to replace Judas. Yet it does say that Matthias was appointed to replace Judays:

NKJV Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said,
Act 1:16 "Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus;
Act 1:17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry."
Act 1:18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 "For it is written in the Book of Psalms: 'LET HIS DWELLING PLACE BE DESOLATE, AND LET NO ONE LIVE IN IT'; and, 'LET ANOTHER TAKE HIS OFFICE.'
Act 1:21 "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."
Act 1:23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen
Act 1:25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."
Act 1:26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
 
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I cannot leave out the statement, “We who have come to know the one true God,” because it is the truth. This is how we testify to the truth expressed in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. What you are saying now is no different from what the Jews were saying to the Lord Jesus. "Please stop suggesting that I don't know Him by that phrase you use so often in your posts,"
JOHN 8:41
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God

However, the Lord Jesus had to speak the truth: He knew God the Father, whereas they did not know Him. The painful truth is that because they insisted that they knew God the Father, they were called liars.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Because the Lord Jesus, in His role as the Son of God, is the model whom we follow, as stated in 1 Peter 2:21. Therefore, I cannot grant your request.

Because you keep asking me not to say the words, “We who have come to know the one true God,” I also need to tell you this truth.
Just as the Lord Jesus is our example, we must also declare that we know the one true God. Otherwise, we would become liars, just like you.
JOHN 8:55
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
The context in which you use those words always suggests that you are implying that the rest of us don't know the true God. Maybe that has not been your intention, but several different people have told you that it seems that way. That is why I object to you using it.
 
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We cannot have knowledge alone without wisdom.

...

It is possible to have knowledge without wisdom.
You just contradicted yourself.

You simply believe that Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 are written in Scripture.
But you cannot prove them because you do not see them continuously happening throughout all generations, just as what happened in the time of Noah.

Therefore, it does not align with the truth.
It does not align with YOUR MISINTERPRETATION of the truth so you reject it. You have badly misunderstood what those verses mean, but instead of humbly accepting correction, you steamroll all objections with your stock phrase, "We who have come to know the one true God..." as though your knowledge (and ego!) assign you invulnerability to error.
 
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What God desires in His Word is both knowledge and wisdom. We cannot have knowledge alone without wisdom.
Knowledge is what we have learned, whereas wisdom is the application of the knowledge we have gained.

It is possible to have knowledge without wisdom.
However, you cannot have wisdom without knowledge.
What I see in what you are saying is that it consists of knowledge without wisdom.

You simply believe that Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 are written in Scripture.
But you cannot prove them because you do not see them continuously happening throughout all generations, just as what happened in the time of Noah.

Therefore, it does not align with the truth.
That is just nonsense. Sorry to be blunt, but it is. We don't have to believe that events which God has said have finished, like the Flood, the bringing of the Children of Israel out of Egypt, Jesus being a baby in a manger, are somehow still happening today in order to believe and show the truths expressed in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. Do you really believe that Jesus is still a baby in a manger? That the apostle Paul is still in prison in Philippi? that an actual, world-wide flood is happening today? God's word will never pass away, and God's word says that the Flood came to an end, that the baby Jesus grew up, that Paul was released from prison in Philippi, and so on.
 
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You simply believe that Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 are written in Scripture.
But you cannot prove them because you do not see them continuously happening throughout all generations, just as what happened in the time of Noah.
The reason you think Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 “cannot be proven” is because you are treating them as if they claim continuous repetition of identical historical events, when neither text says that, implies that, or requires that.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 does not say, “Every event that ever happened must happen again in every generation.”
It says the patterns of human life — pride, folly, oppression, injustice, idolatry, rebellion — recur.
It is a statement about the nature of fallen humanity, not a prophecy that Noah’s flood must repeat every century.
Likewise, Matthew 24:35 does not say, “Every event recorded in Scripture continues happening forever.”
It says Jesus’ words never pass away — His promises, warnings, and authority remain permanent.
You are trying to force both verses to teach perpetual historical recurrence, but Scripture uses them to teach unchanging truth, not repeating events.
Noah’s judgment does not recur every generation; the principle of sudden judgment does.
The flood does not repeat; the pattern of human blindness before judgment does.
Jesus’ incarnation does not repeat; the truth of His words remains.
Your objection collapses because you are demanding a kind of repetition the texts never claim.
 
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I cannot leave out the statement, “We who have come to know the one true God,” because it is the truth. This is how we testify to the truth expressed in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. What you are saying now is no different from what the Jews were saying to the Lord Jesus. "Please stop suggesting that I don't know Him by that phrase you use so often in your posts,"
JOHN 8:41
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God

However, the Lord Jesus had to speak the truth: He knew God the Father, whereas they did not know Him. The painful truth is that because they insisted that they knew God the Father, they were called liars.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Because the Lord Jesus, in His role as the Son of God, is the model whom we follow, as stated in 1 Peter 2:21. Therefore, I cannot grant your request.

Because you keep asking me not to say the words, “We who have come to know the one true God,” I also need to tell you this truth.
Just as the Lord Jesus is our example, we must also declare that we know the one true God. Otherwise, we would become liars, just like you.
JOHN 8:55
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
You just don't get it. Your comparison to Jesus' own words is misguided at best and deeply arrogant at worst.

EVEN IF you actually have come to know the one true God (and there is significant evidence from your own posts that you have not!), continually saying so is completely unnecessary. It does not lend your words ANY credibility or authority, though you seem to think it should end all discussion. It makes you seem weak and unsure of yourself.

If your posts actually expressed the truth of Scripture, the truth alone would defend you and you would have no need to reinforce it with arrogant irrelevance. You do attempt to honour yourself, and you should not.

So set aside your inflated ego and just discuss Scripture instead of claiming continually that you possess some advanced knowledge and intimacy with God that is not reflected by your very limited understanding of His word.
 
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That is just nonsense. Sorry to be blunt, but it is. We don't have to believe that events which God has said have finished, like the Flood, the bringing of the Children of Israel out of Egypt, Jesus being a baby in a manger, are somehow still happening today in order to believe and show the truths expressed in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35. Do you really believe that Jesus is still a baby in a manger? That the apostle Paul is still in prison in Philippi? that an actual, world-wide flood is happening today? God's word will never pass away, and God's word says that the Flood came to an end, that the baby Jesus grew up, that Paul was released from prison in Philippi, and so on.
The lord Jesus who said, you will not see it. You can hear but you don't understand.
MATTHEW 13:13
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
 
The reason you think Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35 “cannot be proven” is because you are treating them as if they claim continuous repetition of identical historical events, when neither text says that, implies that, or requires that.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 does not say, “Every event that ever happened must happen again in every generation.”
It says the patterns of human life — pride, folly, oppression, injustice, idolatry, rebellion — recur.
It is a statement about the nature of fallen humanity, not a prophecy that Noah’s flood must repeat every century.
Likewise, Matthew 24:35 does not say, “Every event recorded in Scripture continues happening forever.”
It says Jesus’ words never pass away — His promises, warnings, and authority remain permanent.
You are trying to force both verses to teach perpetual historical recurrence, but Scripture uses them to teach unchanging truth, not repeating events.
Noah’s judgment does not recur every generation; the principle of sudden judgment does.
The flood does not repeat; the pattern of human blindness before judgment does.
Jesus’ incarnation does not repeat; the truth of His words remains.
Your objection collapses because you are demanding a kind of repetition the texts never claim.
MATTHEW 13:13
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
 
The lord Jesus who said, you will not see it. You can hear but you don't understand.
MATTHEW 13:13
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
So when He said the words in Matthew 13:13, was that a parable? You keep saying that He always spoke in parables.
 
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MATTHEW 13:13
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
You keep accusing others of not seeing, hearing, or understanding, but it is you who has misunderstood the Scripture.

David's post #796 identifies the problem: if everything God says is a parable, then even the statements you quote are parables and you are wrong to use your limited human understanding to treat them as though their meaning is in the plain text.

Further, if everything Jesus says is a parable, then even the statement, "Therefore I speak to them in parables" is itself a parable and you cannot accept it at face value.
 
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The context in which you use those words always suggests that you are implying that the rest of us don't know the true God. Maybe that has not been your intention, but several different people have told you that it seems that way. That is why I object to you using it.
Since you have brought this up again, I will repeat it to you as well. The truth is, I have truly come to know the one and only true God. That is why I constantly speak about this truth. As the Lord Jesus said, if I were to say that I do not know the one and only true God, then I would be a liar like you.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
 
Since you have brought this up again, I will repeat it to you as well. The truth is, I have truly come to know the one and only true God. That is why I constantly speak about this truth. As the Lord Jesus said, if I were to say that I do not know the one and only true God, then I would be a liar like you.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
I am not a liar, and I don't think it can be right for you to call other posters on Christian Chat liars. Just because I don't agree with your strange doctrines doesn't mean I am lying.
 
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Since you have brought this up again, I will repeat it to you as well. The truth is, I have truly come to know the one and only true God. That is why I constantly speak about this truth. As the Lord Jesus said, if I were to say that I do not know the one and only true God, then I would be a liar like you.
JOHN 8:54-55
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
You obviously don't see the inherent (and fatal) problems with your assertions.

Firstly, YOU AREN'T JESUS. The statements made about Jesus and His detractors are not relevant between you and anyone else here.

Secondly, even if you do know God (and that is debatable), YOU AREN'T THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO DOES.

Thirdly, YOU DO HONOUR YOURSELF... constantly.

Finally, by your logic, we can rightly say EXACTLY the same thing about you that you do about us: that YOU ARE A LIAR.


So, are you going to follow Jesus' instruction and "shake the dust off as you leave" this forum, or are you going to remain here and continue being an insufferable donkey who spews error and arrogance?

Given your history, I expect the latter. I'll happily continue to refute your ignorance and errors with Scripture and sound interpretation thereof. At least anyone who does stop in your threads will quickly learn to bypass your wacky ideas.
 
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