How do we explain these pro slavery verses in scripture?

[JohnDB]

Can't help but notice that you offer no opinion of your own. Hmmm.

BTW: If all you are going to do is play the "question game," then folks are gonna tire quickly of your lack of understanding and lack of personal input. I already have. Go in peace.

Yeah....noticed that myself. The questions are becoming more and more hostile as they move forward.

And what some people do not realize was that in many ways slavery 6,000 years ago was the same thing as the welfare program our Government provides today with our tax dollars.
Of course it's not exactly the same...and slaves were to be set free during Jubilee years. Of course most slaves did not want to be set free. They needed the jobs and housing and food. Some did...they wanted their freedom and got it.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Bible does not teach that it is inherently sinful to own a slave. The only verses that might indicate otherwise aee verses about giving up all one's possessions to follow Christ.

I have heard Christians call slavery a sin. It bothers me that they get their definition of sin from contemporary social mores and not scripture.

Slavery was not race based in Biblical times.

This isn't a topic I would open with sharing my faith or want to preach on at the local Second Baptist church or COGIC

If it were legal, and you had an opportunity to own some slaves, would you do it?

 

[JohnDB]

If it were legal, and you had an opportunity to own some slaves, would you do it?

That's a really good question....

I'm not up for owning a slave myself. Because the slave owner is responsible for EVERYTHING the slave does. If the slave commits a crime their owner is responsible. And I'm not such a controlling person who could or would want to keep such tight control over another person. And I've been a foreman or in a supervisory role at work most of my life. That tell you anything? Owning a person is a huge responsibility...one I simply don't want. Having employees is a huge headache when done right. Owning a slave would be similar except multiplied a TON.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That's a really good question....

I'm not up for owning a slave myself. Because the slave owner is responsible for EVERYTHING the slave does. If the slave commits a crime their owner is responsible. And I'm not such a controlling person who could or would want to keep such tight control over another person. And I've been a foreman or in a supervisory role at work most of my life. That tell you anything? Owning a person is a huge responsibility...one I simply don't want. Having employees is a huge headache when done right. Owning a slave would be similar except multiplied a TON.

I notice it's all about you. You didn't say anything about what it would be like for a slave to be owned by another person.

 

[Off123123123]

The Bible does not teach that it is inherently sinful to own a slave. The only verses that might indicate otherwise aee verses about giving up all one's possessions to follow Christ.

I have heard Christians call slavery a sin. It bothers me that they get their definition of sin from contemporary social mores and not scripture.

Slavery was not race based in Biblical times.

This isn't a topic I would open with sharing my faith or want to preach on at the local Second Baptist church or COGIC

So we’re getting our morality and such from a book that can’t even be clear about slavery???

 

[Off123123123]

Can't help but notice that you offer no opinion of your own. Hmm...

IMO, the difference between then and today is the difference between the 1st Covenant and the New Covenant which we live under today. Yes, they are both from the same Book (Holy Bibe), but they are far different are they not? Do you understand the difference between the two?

What you might look for is how the Apostle Paul saw such as this, and how God sees it.

Galatians, Chapter 3:

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

BTW: If all you are going to do is play the "question game," then folks are gonna tire quickly of your lack of understanding and lack of personal input. I already have. Go in peace.

*makes mental note*
Questions bad.
Gotcha.

The OT NT distinction doesn’t work either. Many things in the NT we don’t affirm due to the whole cultural distance thing too.

 

[Off123123123]

Because the way they are said is confusing...not what was intended. What's intended by this old book is of extreme importance.

How can we know we’re getting what they intended, if we don’t know what they mean???

 

[Off123123123]

The Bible does not teach that it is inherently sinful to own a slave.

Another person above seemed annoyed that I was only offering questions, and no answers. I think they were leaning into the idea, that as of now in this discussion I haven’t provided an objective basis for my suggested morals, meanwhile at least Christians have an objective reference..

But I’d suggest the idea that Christian morality is 100% objective, is a myth, a scam, a hoax.

Why? Because many are against things like slavery. Meaning, they didn’t get that moral from the objective scriptures. Many simply read the bible and resonate with the good stuff, then find ways to dismiss the bad stuff that doesn’t resonate. Which means, even they are looking outside of an objective morality. Meaning the idea that Christians have a purely objective standard for what they hold to is a total myth and hoax.

 

[Off123123123]

The Bible does not teach that it is inherently sinful to own a slave. The only verses that might indicate otherwise aee verses about giving up all one's possessions to follow Christ.

I have heard Christians call slavery a sin. It bothers me that they get their definition of sin from contemporary social mores and not scripture.

Slavery was not race based in Biblical times.

This isn't a topic I would open with sharing my faith or want to preach on at the local Second Baptist church or COGIC

You’re holding to a belief system that makes you have a level of shame when presenting it?

 

[Off123123123]

Can't help but notice that you offer no opinion of your own. Hmm...



BTW: If all you are going to do is play the "question game," then folks are gonna tire quickly of your lack of understanding and lack of personal input. I already have. Go in peace.

I have a lot of understanding on this issue. My questions are my input. It may not be the input you want, but it is input. Questions help clarify where someone is coming from.

 

[MsMediator]

Most slavery as we know it today is wrong, which is based on racism and kidnapping. Kidnapping is explicitly forbidden in the Old Testament. Also, God freed the Jews from the Egyptians.

 

[Off123123123]

Most slavery as we know it today is wrong, which is based on racism and kidnapping. Kidnapping is explicitly forbidden in the Old Testament. Also, God freed the Jews from the Egyptians.

Same in the bible.

Lev 25:44
“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. .. As long as they weren’t Jews, no problem. Race based.

Lev 25:46

You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Women and children could be taken as plunder…


Deut 20
13 And when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword, 14 but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves.

Again race based, and involves taking people captive.

There really isn’t a distinction in the scripture between their slavery and what we have had more recently.

 

[Off123123123]

Yeah....noticed that myself. The questions are becoming more and more hostile as they move forward.

And what some people do not realize was that in many ways slavery 6,000 years ago was the same thing as the welfare program our Government provides today with our tax dollars.
Of course it's not exactly the same...and slaves were to be set free during Jubilee years. Of course most slaves did not want to be set free. They needed the jobs and housing and food. Some did...they wanted their freedom and got it.

That’s simply not true. That is a myth, scam, and total hoax.

Being taken as a spoil of war as plunder isn’t welfare.
Deut 20
13 And when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword, 14 but the women and the little ones, the livestock, and everything else in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as plunder for yourselves.

Num 31:9
And the people of Israel took captive the women of Midian and their little ones, and they took as plunder all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods.

A daughter could be SOLD as a slave
Ex 21
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

 

[Jimbone]

But if slavery and selling daughters isn’t clearly spoken against, then in reality, we could do that too still, since rules don’t change.

Well if that's how you read and interpret those verses for today I'd have to say that you have NO Biblical literacy. Is your argument that everything in the Bible is good? The Bible records things that have happen and tells the story of mans fall from God and how God reconciles us back into Himself. Did you know that every verse you listed was written to a very specific people for a very specific time and for very specific reasons. I'm sorry but the "God indorses slavery" argument holds NO water at all when you know His history of setting the enslaved free. So what you're really asking is "why doesn't the Bible and God end slavery the way I think He should". The truth is that we are all slaves no matter what, either slaves of sin or slaves of Him. So while there are no doubt some pretty raw rules for a pretty raw time, but to even pretend that these verses give believers today free reign to have slaves is ignorant at it's best and a silly unbeliever jab by the mocker most the time.

 

[Off123123123]

Well if that's how you read and interpret those verses for today I'd have to say that you have NO Biblical literacy. Is your argument that everything in the Bible is good? The Bible records things that have happen and tells the story of mans fall from God and how God reconciles us back into Himself. Did you know that every verse you listed was written to a very specific people for a very specific time and for very specific reasons. I'm sorry but the "God indorses slavery" argument holds NO water at all when you know His history of setting the enslaved free. So what you're really asking is "why doesn't the Bible and God end slavery the way I think He should". The truth is that we are all slaves no matter what, either slaves of sin or slaves of Him. So while there are no doubt some pretty raw rules for a pretty raw time, but to even pretend that these verses give believers today free reign to have slaves is ignorant at it's best and a silly unbeliever jab by the mocker most the time.

Your point would be 100% valid if scripture only described things people were doing regarding slavery, but we have God commanding on how to do it. As I’ve shown in previous replies to this post.

 

[Off123123123]

Well if that's how you read and interpret those verses for today I'd have to say that you have NO Biblical literacy. Is your argument that everything in the Bible is good? The Bible records things that have happen and tells the story of mans fall from God and how God reconciles us back into Himself. Did you know that every verse you listed was written to a very specific people for a very specific time and for very specific reasons. I'm sorry but the "God indorses slavery" argument holds NO water at all when you know His history of setting the enslaved free. So what you're really asking is "why doesn't the Bible and God end slavery the way I think He should". The truth is that we are all slaves no matter what, either slaves of sin or slaves of Him. So while there are no doubt some pretty raw rules for a pretty raw time, but to even pretend that these verses give believers today free reign to have slaves is ignorant at it's best and a silly unbeliever jab by the mocker most the time.

That’s a contradiction. On one hand he told people how to take people captives as slaves as plunder for war, yet on the other hand he sets slaves free? You can’t be yes and no at the same time.

And as I’ve said in other posts, you’re pointing to those commands being written to people at different places and times. You just made the case that scripture is significantly distanced from us because of place, time, culture, context. Yet the book that’s so so so different because of all that, is a guide to do things today? Again, a total contradiction. Yes and no at the same time.

 

[Mem]

I'm going to jump in here just to splash around a bit.

We were created with the capability to rise above our nature, which is to conquer the world. But few have managed that aspiration. That is, until Christ facilitated the ability. So, what had been regulated by the law before no longer need be once everyone receives the necessary spirit that will bring perfect peace, where there is no slavery, into our reality.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

How do we explain these verses that appear to have God not opposing slavery?

Every Christian is a "servant" of Christ We were purchased by Him (1 cor 6:20), and we're His property.

 

[Off123123123]

I'm going to jump in here just to splash around a bit.

We were created with the capability to rise above our nature, which is to conquer the world. But few have managed that aspiration. That is, until Christ facilitated the ability. So, what had been regulated by the law before no longer need be once everyone receives the necessary spirit that will bring perfect peace, where there is no slavery, into our reality.

But God had hundreds of commands for other things, and still has commands. All commands haven’t ceased because we now have the Spirit.

 

[Mem]

But God had hundreds of commands for other things, and still has commands. All commands haven’t ceased because we now have the Spirit.

There's no need to command not to kill if one is already loving.