I'm not sure what that has to do with seeing or not seeing Jesus.
Yes, He was saying that there would be people like us, who would believe on Him, even though they had not seen Him with their physical eyes.
How do we testify to this word of the Lord?
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I was trying to talk to the other poster 316 but it seems idk people go out of their way to distract
this app is mostly the problem it doesn't send right away and sometimes it changes typo or even to what i post to many times I click post reply and does not go through even after more than ten then you get what you get because there's nothing I can do about it there mabe have a little internet interference also .nevertheless it God doing his thing yeah I'll give him credit glory .316 I said something about forcing language and I twisted it around to the roman needed learn Greek something like that but I don't think it was our conversation and another post text got combined because it didn't send and it had something to do with the blessing for them that have not seen him but have believed it doesn't say future but it's acceptable I noticed you in a few others want to find it you show me where it says that he's saying future without
Because a person’s clear understanding of God’s Word is based on its literal, physical sense, what is understood in John 20:29 regarding those who “have seen and believed” refers to those who physically saw the Lord Jesus while He was still physically present in the world, and therefore believed, just like Thomas.
And those who “have not seen and yet have believed” refer to the people who believed in the Lord after He ascended into heaven. Although they did not physically see Him, they believed in Him.
Therefore, in our time, when the Lord Jesus can no longer be physically seen, the “blessed” being referred to is understood to be those who believe and read the Holy Scriptures today. This is because they claim that even though they have not physically seen the Lord Jesus, they still believe in Him.
I just want to reiterate: during the time of the New Testament, when the Lord said, “though they have not seen, yet believed,” He was referring to people who had seen the Lord Jesus physically, not to what people commonly understand as those who did not physically see the Lord Jesus yet believed in Him.
But because the Word of God lives forever, it cannot be the case that the people described as “those who have not seen but believed” only began to exist after the Lord ascended into heaven.
The truth is that even during the time of the New Testament, when the Lord Jesus could still be physically seen, there were already people who belonged to the category of those who had not seen yet believed in Him.
JOHN 20:29
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
When we ask the Lord who He is referring to as the one who “saw and believed,” here is an example: a person who experienced the Lord’s power when He healed them from their illness. Having witnessed the Lord’s power through that healing, the person came to believe in Him.
LUKE 17:11-17
11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
What the Lord declared in John 20:29 reveals an important truth concerning human understanding, which is often limited to what can be seen and understood in a literal and physical sense. Thus, when the Lord said, “Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed,” He was referring to those who would believe in Him even though they had not physically seen Him.
This includes those who read and believe the Holy Scriptures. Although they did not personally see the Lord Jesus with their physical eyes, they believed in Him through the testimony of the Word of God.
The Word of God, however, does not pass away; it lives and endures forever. This is why the Lord also declared in Matthew 24:35, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Likewise, Ecclesiastes 1:9 declares that what has been will be again and what has been done will be done again.
Therefore, even during the Lord Jesus’ earthly ministry, when people could physically see Him, there were those who nevertheless failed to truly perceive or believe who He was. In this sense, the Lord’s statement in John 20:29 points beyond physical sight: true blessedness belongs to those who believe through the testimony of God’s Word, even though they have not physically seen the Lord Jesus.
Faith, therefore, is not ultimately dependent upon physical sight, but upon believing the truth revealed through the enduring Word of God.
Who claimed that "those who have not seen but believed only began to exist after the Lord ascended into heaven"?
Please quote them.
Your first sentence does not connect to your second.
Do you think your second sentence is some great insight that only you have realized? The truth of Jesus' words points directly to those who have believed based on testimony rather than personal literal sight.
“(for we walk by faith, not by sight
”2 Corinthians 5:7 KJV
Peter was witnessing to some like that here
“Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”
1 Peter 1:6-11 KJV
even some of those in the ot believed in him without seeing him they believed by faith beforehand because God said he would come and we believe after because god said he has come and will come back
We are those who have come to know the one true God. We acknowledge that the Lord speaks in parables or dark sayings. One example is when He said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19).
The Lord said these words while they were in the temple. Therefore, the Jews naturally understood Him to be referring to the literal temple, as shown in John 2:20. Yet the Lord was not actually speaking about the physical temple itself. His statement had a deeper meaning that they did not understand at that time.
This brings us to the passage we are discussing in John 20:29. The Lord said to Thomas, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
The Lord said this in the context of Thomas refusing to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead. Because of this context, the common understanding is that the Lord was referring to those who would believe in Him without physically seeing Him. In our time, since we do not physically see the Lord because He has ascended into heaven, it is commonly understood that we are included among those whom He called blessed.
However, if the Lord's statement concerning the temple was not referring to what the people naturally understood from His words, then the same principle should be considered in John 20:29. The Lord was not simply referring to people who have never physically seen Jesus and yet believe in Him.
If the Lord sometimes speaks in ways that have a deeper meaning than what is immediately understood from the literal words, then we should carefully examine what He meant when He said, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Therefore, the question remains: Who exactly was the Lord referring to when He said that those who have not seen and yet have believed are blessed?
The question deserves a deeper examination not merely according to our natural understanding of the words, but according to what the Lord Himself intended to reveal.
That is not a parable, but a word picture, or metaphor, similar to when He said that He is the door, the Light, the true vine. A parable is a story. There is no story here. And it is not left for us as a "dark saying", because John goes on to say:
NKJV Jhn 2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
Yes, as John explains in v21.
So what was He saying, in your view? That is actually what happened. We are told in detail about the other disciples have=ing seen the risen Saviour when Thomas was not with them. When they told him, he would not believe. Then 8 days later, Jesus appeared to the disciples again, and this time, Thomas was there. That is the context of the words about seeing and believing. Thomas had literally seen the risen Saviour, and had believed. Jesus then says those words, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." That teaches the same truth that Peter expresses in his first epistle:
NKJV 1Pe 1:7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 1:8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
Most people have never seen Jesus. All people are in one of two groups. In the first group are the thousands who saw Him while He was on earth, people like Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, the disciples, the Pharisees and Scribes who argued with Him, Pontius Pilate and Saul of Tarsus/Paul. In the much larger group is everybody else. There is no third group. So when Jesus talked of those who hadn't seen Him but who believe, who else could He mean?
What Jesus intended to reveal is revealed in the plain text in this passage. There's no need to go hunting for occult knowledge.
In our question to the Lord in John 20:29, who is He referring to when He says, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed”?
If what people understand in the words of God from the clear and literal perspective of human understanding, this refers to those who read and believe in the Holy Scriptures. Although they have not physically seen the Lord Jesus, they believe in Him.
However, in what the Lord reveals, He confirms what is stated in Ecclesiastes 1:9 and Matthew 24:35.
For during the time of the Lord Jesus, the person He was referring to was already present, as shown by the example He gave.
The example of someone who had not seen but believed is found in the centurion.
Although the centurion physically saw the Lord Jesus. and he had not yet witnessed the Lord’s power to heal his servant, he immediately believed.
MATTHEW 8:5-9
5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
And what the Lord Jesus heard in the centurion’s statement was affirmed by the Lord in what He said in the passage we are discussing, John 20:29.
The Lord declared the centurion blessed because, although he had not yet seen the power of the Lord Jesus, he already believed.
MATTHEW 8:10
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
JOHN 20:29
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
In our discussion of John 20:29, we can compare the two examples presented by the Lord. Although the man who was healed of leprosy recognized the Lord Jesus, and the centurion also recognized the Lord Jesus, the centurion was more blessed because he was the one whom the Lord referred to as believing even before seeing the Lord’s power.
For it is through humility that a person comes to recognize the Lord Jesus. However, if we compare the humility of these two individuals, the centurion demonstrated greater humility.
Therefore, in our time today, we can also see these two kinds of people: those who believe because they have seen, and those who believe even though they have not seen. This shows that what the Lord is pointing to is the humility found in a person’s heart.
But that is not what Jesus said to Thomas. He didn't say, "Because you have seen My power you have believed," but "Because you have seen Me you have believed."
Certainly when we come to Jesus we must do so humbly. We must recognise, as Thomas did, that He is Lord and God.
But nobody alive today has seen Jesus Christ physically. He is in heaven, seated at the right hand of His Father.
What you are saying does not correspond to the truth. If it were true that the revelation of the Lord Jesus is already clearly found in the text, then the different groups within Christianity today who have studied the Holy Scriptures for five to ten years should have reached the same understanding and recognition of the Lord Jesus.
However, the different groups that make up Christianity today have arrived at four different understandings of who the Lord Jesus is. One of these is the Trinitarian doctrine that you believe in.
- The Lord Jesus is a man and not God.
- The Lord Jesus is the Mighty God, while His Father is the Almighty God.
- The name of the Father and the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ. Therefore, the name of God is Jesus Christ. This is the Oneness doctrine.
- There is only one God, but He exists as three distinct persons. The Father is different from the Son, and the Son is different from the Holy Spirit. The Lord Jesus is both God and man. This is the Trinitarian doctrine.
- Are all four of these different understandings of the Lord Jesus true?
- If only one of them is true, which one is it?
- Or is it possible that none of them is the truth?
Certainly when we come to Jesus we must do so humbly. We must recognise, as Thomas did, that He is Lord and God.
What would be your answer to this example?
Suppose the object you see is white. If you ask different people what color it is, they all answer that it is white. But when God comes and says that it is not white but black, whom would you believe, God or the people?
But that is not what Jesus said to Thomas. He didn't say, "Because you have seen My power you have believed," but "Because you have seen Me you have believed."
Because you do not recognize the one true God, the Lord does not reveal to you the spiritual message contained in His Word.
Therefore, you are only able to understand God’s Word in its literal and physical sense.
Therefore, regarding the temple that the Lord said would be destroyed and raised again on the third day: if John 2:21 had not been written, you would believe that the Lord was referring to a literal temple.
Your reasoning would be: “If the Lord was referring to His body in John 2:19, then He should have said, ‘Destroy My body, and on the third day I will raise it up.’”
JOHN 2:19-21
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Looking at all the denominations out there I think the answer to that is unfortunately themselves over God.
I would believe what God says rather than what other people say. How does your post answer mine? God's word, not other people, tells us that Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen Me you have believed." God's word does not say that Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen My power you have believed."
God's word, not other people, informs us where Jesus Christ is now:
NKJV Rom 8:34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
If Jesus is back in heaven, at the right hand of God, nobody alive today has seen Him physically.