We aren't taking about arguments. We're specifically talking about physical abuse.
How do you know when to call it quits.
- Thread starter Walkinfaith
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Christian women can divorce. And do every day.
We marry under State, Secular, contract. And we can divorce the same way. By State law.
In a marriage of neglect,abandonment,emotional and mental abuse,which that is,we are allowed to divorce.
And remarry.
If we're going to convince ourselves we have to obey without questions the Bibles marriage covenant,we best abide by every law of God in Scripture too. Else,we be hypocrites.
Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all is fulfilled. That has not yet occurred.
Which we know because Jesus said,the laws of God are encapsulated in two commands. Love God with all our heart and mind.
And love our neighbor as ourselves.
Christians aren't married solely by covenant. We are not obligated to be bound by covenant when yoked to an unbeliever.
Any allowance if divorce for men in scripture transfers to allowance for women when,as Jesus says,we are all one in him. No Jew,no Gentile,no male,female.
If you're miserable in marriage and nothing changes this, love yourself and leave.
Because when you're abused in any way,God ,despite your prayers for salvation,is telling you he isn't blessing your union.
Because you are unequally bound with an unbeliever. And that's what an abusive,physical,mental,emotional,is. An unbeliever.
Because those in Christ don't treat their spouse like that.
We marry under State, Secular, contract. And we can divorce the same way. By State law.
In a marriage of neglect,abandonment,emotional and mental abuse,which that is,we are allowed to divorce.
And remarry.
If we're going to convince ourselves we have to obey without questions the Bibles marriage covenant,we best abide by every law of God in Scripture too. Else,we be hypocrites.
Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the law shall pass away until all is fulfilled. That has not yet occurred.
Which we know because Jesus said,the laws of God are encapsulated in two commands. Love God with all our heart and mind.
And love our neighbor as ourselves.
Christians aren't married solely by covenant. We are not obligated to be bound by covenant when yoked to an unbeliever.
Any allowance if divorce for men in scripture transfers to allowance for women when,as Jesus says,we are all one in him. No Jew,no Gentile,no male,female.
If you're miserable in marriage and nothing changes this, love yourself and leave.
Because when you're abused in any way,God ,despite your prayers for salvation,is telling you he isn't blessing your union.
Because you are unequally bound with an unbeliever. And that's what an abusive,physical,mental,emotional,is. An unbeliever.
Because those in Christ don't treat their spouse like that.
The parties are married by State law.
Not religious covenant.
If they sought covenant to hold dominion,they wouldn't have rendered unto Caesar that which is Ceasars. And paid for a civil union State contract of marriage.
Which came first.
Before their vows.
You're free to disagree. That's your pov on marriage.
It doesn't make your view true for everyone else.
In fact,abandonment and neglect is emotional and mental abuse. When you don't know this, that's sad.
And you're wrong.
Yeah, I said a few comments ago we disagree. Your responses haven't changed my mind. Grace and Peace to you also.
Most couples take marriage vows. Amongst those vows are for better or worse and til death do we part. And most take those vows before both man and God. That many don't take them seriously doesn't negate the vows.
Whether one vows or not in marriage, God hates divorce. He set the standard at one man and one woman for one lifetime. As I read scripture, I find only 2 circumstances wherein divorce is allowed. Abuse is not one of them. While an individual who is abused should separate and find safety, they are not biblically free to divorce and remarry.
Grace and peace.
When God says not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever, that's before marriage, in seeking process.
Once married, no more seeking.
Different strategies.
Jesus is very clear in this teaching. But Jesus allow divorce, see Mark 10 .....
Once married, no more seeking.
Different strategies.
Jesus is very clear in this teaching. But Jesus allow divorce, see Mark 10 .....
They are. You refuse to face that. OK.
Countless Christians have Divorced.
God forgives.
I won't argue with you.
Women are not property.
God forgives.
when you say “the parties are married by State law, not religious covenant,” you’re exactly right: a civil marriage is a legal contract, not a divine covenant, and Scripture never confuses the two. Jesus’ command to render unto Caesar means that when a couple voluntarily enters a State‑defined union — pays for the license, signs the contract, submits to the civil authority — they are acknowledging Caesar’s jurisdiction before any vows are spoken. The civil marriage comes first because the State requires its contract before it recognizes the union; the vows come second because they express personal commitment, not covenantal dominion. A biblical covenant of marriage is something entirely different — it is God‑initiated, Spirit‑sealed, and rooted in His design, not the State’s paperwork. So yes, if a couple wanted covenantal dominion, they wouldn’t begin by submitting to Caesar’s definition of marriage; they would begin by submitting to God’s
Yes,he does. And Unbelievers are those who don't comport themselves as they should when acting as a spouse.
When Christians choose to render unto Caesar,secular government,and enter into a State marriage contract, they are then advantaged by said contract. And are able to dissolve said contract. Divorce.
God may hate Divorce but if he's a merciful God he also hates abuse in a marriage.
And given there is a list in God's word of things God hates, abusive spouses exhibit that which is also in that list.
In Hebrew culture during Testament times divorce wasn't allowed because the children in a marriage were to be of the blood of their father. Not of multiple fathers should a woman divorce. Which is why the woman was forbidden to remarry. And possibly produce offspring of them a mixed blood to those offspring in her first marriage.
This is also why the Temple authorities were given an amenogogue potion recipe in the event a man suspected infidelity by his wife.
I don't see Cameron saying God doesn't forgive. He's saying abuse is not a biblical reason for divorce, so in doing so the person is sinning. I don't agree, but let's be clear and accurate about what people are saying.
If they insist on fundamentalist Biblical principals governing their union,that is correct.
No — I’m not suggesting Christians should avoid getting a marriage license.
I’m saying something much simpler and much more biblical:
A State marriage and a covenant marriage are two different things.
A Christian may get a marriage license.A Christian may participate in a civil ceremony.
A Christian may honor Caesar’s legal requirements.
But none of that creates a covenant before God.
The State marriage is a legal contract.
It gives:tax status
property rights
legal recognition
civil obligations
This is Caesar’s realm. Jesus acknowledged it when He said: “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.”
If you choose to enter Caesar’s marriage, you are entering his jurisdiction.
A covenant marriage is a spiritual reality.
It is:God‑initiated
Spirit‑sealed
rooted in Christ’s design
defined by Scripture, not the State
A covenant is not created by:
paperwork
licenses
fees
signatures
government recognition
A covenant is created by:
vows before God
union by the Spirit
commitment rooted in Christ
the joining of two believers under God’s authority
In modern America, the State contract comes first — because the government requires it before it recognizes the union.
That’s the point I’ve been making:
If someone truly wanted a covenant marriage, they wouldn’t begin by submitting to Caesar’s definition of marriage.
They would begin by submitting to God’s.
But most Christians today do it in reverse:
First they enter Caesar’s marriage.
Then they speak vows.
Then they call it “Christian marriage.”
Biblically, that’s backwards.
So should Christians get a license?
They can. There is no sin in doing so.But they must understand:
The license does not create the covenant. The State does not define the marriage. The paperwork does not make them one flesh.
The covenant is something God does — not the courthouse.
My point is:
Don’t confuse Caesar’s contract with God’s covenant.
One is legal. One is spiritual. One is temporary. One is eternal. One is paperwork. One is sacred
I am sure in God s spiritual marriageMy head is spinning
, not state, couple will never have problem such as abuse, abandonment, .... no need for divorce, court paper, child support. Wheyeee, brilliant
Problem solved.
I'm not the only dreamer on board.I am sure in God s spiritual marriage
Wheyeee, brilliant
Problem solved.
that “Wheyeee, brilliant” made me smile — but let me give you the real answer in one clean, grounded paragraph, because what you just said touches the heart of the difference between God’s covenant and Caesar’s contract.I am sure in God s spiritual marriage
Wheyeee, brilliant
Problem solved.
In God’s spiritual marriage — the one formed by the Spirit, rooted in covenant, and lived under Christ’s lordship — you’re right: abuse, abandonment, divorce courts, child support battles, and legal warfare don’t exist, because those things belong to the realm of fallen human contracts, not the realm of Spirit‑joined covenant union. A true covenant marriage is built on regeneration, indwelling, sanctification, and mutual submission under Christ; Caesar’s marriage is built on paperwork, jurisdiction, and legal enforcement. One is a one‑flesh union created by God, the other is a civil arrangement regulated by the State. When people enter Caesar’s marriage without entering God’s covenant, they inherit Caesar’s problems. When people enter God’s covenant, they inherit God’s design — and that design doesn’t produce abuse or abandonment, because the Spirit doesn’t produce those fruits. In covenant marriage, the problems of the flesh don’t rule; in civil marriage, they often do.
If you’re thinking about joining Amish society, the first thing to understand is that it’s not simply a lifestyle change — it’s a complete surrender of modern autonomy, technology, individualism, and outside identity. The Amish don’t “let people join” easily; most communities require years of living among them, proving humility, obedience, and willingness to submit to their Ordnung (their rule of life). You’d give up electricity, cars, phones, internet, modern medicine, and personal independence. You’d be expected to adopt their theology, their discipline structure, their dress, their work rhythms, and their communal authority. And even after all that, many Amish groups still won’t accept outsiders because they believe their way of life is preserved only through birth and upbringing. It’s not impossible — but it’s rare, slow, and demanding. If you’re drawn to the simplicity, the community, the separation from the chaos of modern life, that’s understandable. But joining them means giving up far more than most people realize.