How do you reconcile Exodus 20:12 with Luke 14:26?

[Desertsrose]

Why do all these pastor's twist the Scriptures, there is a word for "love less" it is "like" and Jesus did not use that word He used "hate" not "like".

But your explanation, you know more then that pastor.

Hi Johnny,

By the way, sorry I called you John earlier and not Johnny.

Okay, so when Jesus said unless you hate does hate really mean hate? We know it can't mean that because we're told to love.

So would it mean that in the way we love God, it might appear as hate?

Like when Jesus used his mother, brothers and sisters who were outside as an example to the believers when He said, "who is my mother, my sisters, my brothers."

 

[Johnny_B]

Oops loveless.

The opposite of hate is love, people don't choose to be a disciple but Jesus chose His disciples.

Yes He does, the Gospels are interesting though, He says things that make no sense to us because we have never lived under the Mosaic system or are we part of the chosen offspring of Abraham the way the Jews are.

 

[BeyondET]

Yes He does, the Gospels are interesting though, He says things that make no sense to us because we have never lived under the Mosaic system or are we part of the chosen offspring of Abraham the way the Jews are.

He says things in the gospels that can be a head scratcher for sure, like the the hate your mother and father statement, do people say to themselves I'm not going to hate my mother and father thus I'm not worthy to be a disciple or do people say to themselves I can hate my mother and father thus worthy to be a disciple.

 

[Denadii]

JohnnyB I clicked on this EE-TEOW thingy...It was very good!

 

[BeyondET]

Yup. You misunderstood...But we only make mistakes when we're trying to do something or trying to learn something. So thank you for asking.

Let's look at the scripture in question....
[h=1]Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)[/h] [SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I said nothing about the prophets writing the law..But they all wrote books of the Bible...right? All of the law, the Torah, and all of the books written by the prophets are based on this law in Matthew. That is to say. "The Law of Love" Did I say it better?

I like it...

Hears a few thoughts I have on things, looking into the OT and the Author who wrote the Ten Commandments, by the way these Ten Commandments were written with a pen of lightning on a sheet of stone, delivered to the people by Moses in my opinion.

Peaking into the NT, the Word became Flesh and did speak about the two greatest commandments.

If I was to overview these and see how these go together, I'd say I would think to myself some questions.

Do I want anyone to murder me?
Do I want anyone to steal from me?
Do I want anyone to envy me or my property?
Do I want anyone to make a false statement about me?
Do I want anyone to be with my spouse in the physical sense?

Do I believe in other gods?
Do I use the lord's name in vein?
Do I make idols of myself or other people or things?
Do I honour my mother and father?
Do I remember the sabbath, and keep it holy!

 

[Johnny_B]

Hi Johnny,

By the way, sorry I called you John earlier and not Johnny.

Okay, so when Jesus said unless you hate does hate really mean hate? We know it can't mean that because we're told to love.

So would it mean that in the way we love God, it might appear as hate?

Like when Jesus used his mother, brothers and sisters who were outside as an example to the believers when He said, "who is my mother, my sisters, my brothers."

I think it does, if we look at Genesis 6 that whole idea of God hates the sin but loves the sinner goes out the window. At the same time I don't think the hate is with intent to kill as the type of anger or hate one might have towards someone as in Matthew 5.

The Gospels are interesting in that they are addressed to the Jews and lots of what is said, makes no sense to someone that has not been under the oppression of the Law and that system of land ownership. He is talking about the cost of following him and that they needed to count it. We do not understand because now a days, it you disassociate from your family, you can go to a new city, get a job and start a new life. Not so in the Gospel times, your land was part of your inheritance, that's why if your husband died without you having a son, his brother took you as a wife to give her that son so she would have a place to live. So the impact of what Jesus is saying is far more then we would have to do by us following Jesus.

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, my daughter was here and she started asking a few things.

 

[EarsToHear]

Whenever you find contradictions in God’s Word, it’s time to dig deeper. If you’re reading a translation of the Word, you’ll find many errors. Some are accidents, while others are done on purpose. The most glaring of those done on purpose is Easter, which should have been Passover.


In the 1611 version of the King James, you’ll find two letters, one to the king and the other to the reader. There the translators said that we did our best, but check it out for yourself - or words to that effect. By check it out for yourself, they meant to check it out in the manuscripts.


With the above in mind, here how Luke 14:26 should have been translated:


Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and not love less his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


Now, the above aligns with Exodus 20:12:


Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


God comes first before anyone or anything else.

 

[posthuman]

the Gospels are interesting though

understate much?

 

[BeyondET]

If people can't muster up the reverse psychology about wrongly placed words then Recognizing the proper words that should of been used is of knowledge IMO,

(hate) incorrect (love) correct
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


If any man come to me, and (hath more faith in) his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

 

[Katy-follower]

Here are two more scriptures related to this...


Matthew 10:34-39: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

Luke 12:50-53: "Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”


The context of these scriptures is not of violence. They're actually stating that Christ wants division between the truth and the lie. That a daughter and her mother will be divided because one has the truth and the other doesn't.

Those who love the truth, hate the lie (not the person, but the lie), and so by loving the truth, the daughter will not compromise on the truth for the sake of unity with her mother. If the daughter compromises then she is showing she loves her mother more than Christ. Christ should come first.

Both the mother and daughter are physically related, but they are not spiritually related, because one has the Spirit and the other does not... so one is in God's family and the other is lost in the world (the scriptures say satan is their father). There is a spiritual warfare going on and there will never be peace and unity between them because they are in different spiritual families, so there will always be a spiritual battle between them.

 

[MattforJesus]

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It is obvious that Jesus does not mean to literally hate these people,but what He is saying is do not put anybody above Him,for He is to be number one in a person's life,and have the priority above other people,and the attention above other people,and we listen to Jesus above other people.

Everyone is second place to Jesus,or else they are not truly Jesus' child.

Jesus also said we are to hate our own life too,which means it is not our agenda,but the Lord's agenda.No other person should have an influence,or an agenda,in our life,that we treasure,that is above Jesus,or to put anybody above Jesus in importance.

It is Jesus' say so in our life,what He wants,and no person is to come between Jesus and His saint.

Paul said if a man is married he caters to his wife,but if he is not married he caters to God,which he dedicates himself more to God if he is not married.

 

[garee]

That sounds like Westboro Baptist stuff god hates sinners hey? Ok Reconcile that with
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God hates by not blessing and having mercy and grace on men that are born sinners, But He blesses by a labor of His love those that are called according to the good pourpose of his will as He works in them to both will and perform his good pleasure while they were yet sinners. He died for the us.For as many as the father has given to the Son they will come, not might come. He will in no wise cast them out. Not the other us.

Scripture defines the us .

 

[garee]

Originally Posted by Johnny_B
Why do all these pastor's twist the Scriptures, there is a word for "love less" it is "like" and Jesus did not use that word He used "hate" not "like".

But your explanation, you know more then that pastor.

Scripture does not use the term; loveless.It not does it say he likes us as an emotional response. Love and hate have to do with the “work of blessing” (loving) or not to work to bless…. (hate.)


Either we are saved by a work of His blessing or not blessed. It is not feel blessed or feel hated .We must deny ourselves.

 

[KJV1611]

First of all, Jesus was just trying to make a point: Follow him, not human beings.

And it is possible to honor someone you hate.

That verse doesn't say follow him, not human beings. It says to hate your you mother and father if you're going to follow Jesus... please don't change the words of the bible just because you don't understand them. Not being rude, just trying to get you to stop doing the wrong thing and investigate the verse to find out which mother and father it's talking about.

 

[KJV1611]

LOL You proved my point thanks.

Yes, the physical world is only a shadow of the spiritual world, we have a father, mother and siblings in the spiritual realm that we should absolutely hate.

 

[KJV1611]

Whenever you find contradictions in God’s Word, it’s time to dig deeper. If you’re reading a translation of the Word, you’ll find many errors. Some are accidents, while others are done on purpose. The most glaring of those done on purpose is Easter, which should have been Passover.

I agree that passover was changed to Easter on purpose, but I believe it was purposely done by the Holy Spirit to update the Greek to the more modern understanding that we have today. Back in the time of the Greek language apparently passover was used interchangeably to reference the passover and the fulfillment of passover which we now call Easter.

When the events that took place in Acts 12 occured, passover had already been fulfilled by Christ. So Easter is the most correct word in that instance and it is really miraculous that the KJV translators translated it that way.

 

[Denadii]

I agree that passover was changed to Easter on purpose, but I believe it was purposely done by the Holy Spirit to update the Greek to the more modern understanding that we have today. Back in the time of the Greek language apparently passover was used interchangeably to reference the passover and the fulfillment of passover which we now call Easter.

When the events that took place in Acts 12 occured, passover had already been fulfilled by Christ. So Easter is the most correct word in that instance and it is really miraculous that the KJV translators translated it that way.

Now if you dig into Easter and its roots......I do not celebrate Ishtar. I celebrate God's feasts Passover not Ishtar

 

[KJV1611]

Now if you dig into Easter and its roots......I do not celebrate Ishtar. I celebrate God's feasts Passover not Ishtar

It's like Is-Ra-El, Isis Ra God. When the bible refers to Israel it's not reffering to the pagan version. Words always have dual meanings, God's way and the perverted way.

The fulfillment of Passover is known as Easter... it's just the way God caused it to happen.

 

[John146]

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Exodus passage is dealing with God's OT people Israel.

Luke passage is dealing with the disciples of Jesus during His ministry on earth. The explanation is in the next verse: 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple The disciples were not to bear the "cross" of anyone else but their own.

 

[resurrection33]

That verse doesn't say follow him, not human beings. It says to hate your you mother and father if you're going to follow Jesus... please don't change the words of the bible just because you don't understand them. Not being rude, just trying to get you to stop doing the wrong thing and investigate the verse to find out which mother and father it's talking about.

No, I think you are wrong. The Lord is just trying to make a point. I think you will regret it deeply someday if you hate your parents without just cause.