How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !

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svedbygrace said:
eg



If you don't know, then why respond ? That makes you look foolish, to respond to a pointless post !
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about as foolish as one who actually evades and then accuses others of it? You know well that he meant that you had no point because "whosoever" nullifies your predestination.

Consider your predestination theology: what is the purpose of the final Judgment?
 
svedbygrace said:
Here is the difference !


Here is the difference in the matter of Faith and Believing and why Justification by works can be contrasted from Justification by Faith, when this difference is recognized and if not, its to our everlasting peril. Now this is why the work monger makes Faith/Believing a work, and the True Believer does not. For the one, the work monger, the act of believing or Faith is deemed a duty or condition to perform in order to get Justified before God, but to the other, the True Believer, Faith / Believing is an act done after it has been revealed to them that they are already in a Justifed state before God because of what Christ has done for them; So therein lies the difference.

To the one, the work monger, they tell us that their Faith is reckoned to God as their Righteousness, whereas the True Believer will tell us that the Object of his Faith, Christ has been revealed to be their Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God[Christ] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written , The just shall live by faith.

How is Faith ones Righteousness, when Christ is revealed in the Gospel as ones Righteousness to Faith ?

So therein lies the difference ! To one the act of believing is in order to get righteous before God, but to the other the act of believing is because one discovers they are Righteous before God, an now rest in that fact !838
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I see this and this you just said is true, and comes on those that believe, when God decides for those to receive that believe, it took me personally many years to come to this truth that it is all God, and none of me.
Now if I had not worked hard to enter his rest, would I have? don't know, but I did

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.




 
svedbygrace said:
eg



If you don't know, then why respond ? That makes you look foolish, to respond to a pointless post !
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Who said I did not know?

it is like saying 2+2 is 5 and then giving me a huge list of reasons.

2 + 2 will never be 5. it does not matter what arguments or reasons you give, they are invalid.

Same goes here. Whoever means ANYONE can chose. Thus your points saying only some can chose are invalid.
 
weakness said:
​Unbelief is not a consequence of sin. For Eve had unbelief before she sinned. Or usurped her own reasoning greater than Gods. But it was unbelief , she did not believe Gods words were true. This was all before she sinned. So unbelief is not a consequence of sin. She was tempted by her own lust and enticed to not beleive ,but it was not sin till she acted upon her temtation.
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Thank you for that insight, vanity, vanity, vanity, not ever forced, it is just laid out before us, and it is our free choice to either believe, receive and see or not to believe, and stress out, worry over, and not be free. Adam and Eve put us all in the position we are born with to begin with, and we are made aware of this and are called to believe God and be born again in the Spirit of God by Son Christ,
God is wonderfully Merciful, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Who said I did not know?

it is like saying 2+2 is 5 and then giving me a huge list of reasons.

2 + 2 will never be 5. it does not matter what arguments or reasons you give, they are invalid.

Same goes here. Whoever means ANYONE can chose. Thus your points saying only some can chose are invalid.
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2 cans of water (1.25 liters )+2 more = 5 cans of water (1 liter each)or 5 liters total.
Are the "whosoever " the choosing or the chosen ? Is belief a condition for salvation or a sign of salvation ?
 
quickened77 said:
2 cans of water (1.25 liters )+2 more = 5 cans of water (1 liter each)or 5 liters total.
Are the "whosoever " the choosing or the chosen ? Is belief a condition for salvation or a sign of salvation ?
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Could it be that God chose those through Christ to be the elect and not individuals for salvation?

If belief is not a condition for salvation, then the faith one has is not true and how then can that faith be rewarded? If belief is a sign of salvation, then shall God reward Himself for the faith He has given to a selected few? If that is the case, shall God judge Himself for the non-faith He has given to those He has made for destruction?
 
quickened77 said:
2 cans of water (1.25 liters )+2 more = 5 cans of water (1 liter each)or 5 liters total.
Are the "whosoever " the choosing or the chosen ? Is belief a condition for salvation or a sign of salvation ?
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what is a prerequisite for salvation? You tell me.

Justification is the legal term for salvation. One has been set free from the penalty of sin and declred right in the eyes of God (saved)

so how are we justified?

as for you'r example. 2 cans of 1.25 liter s of water plus another two cans would be 4 cans.. The can was a 1.25 liters.. Nice try though.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
what is a prerequisite for salvation? You tell me.

Justification is the legal term for salvation. One has been set free from the penalty of sin and declred right in the eyes of God (saved)

so how are we justified?

as for you'r example. 2 cans of 1.25 liter s of water plus another two cans would be 4 cans.. The can was a 1.25 liters.. Nice try though.
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Romans 8[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Apparently through Christ. I see a lot of He He He and nothing of me me me.

 
Cobus said:
WRONG... God did not say ALL are called and few are chosen.... God said MANY are called few are chosen. QUOTE]
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2 Peter 3:9 ASV 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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Glory in the Cross !


Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Paul is basically is saying that his Salvation and Conversion from this evil world is due to the Cross of Christ, he will not boast in anything else !

Now what is your boast ? What is my boast ? What do we Glory in for Salvation ? Listen if you are confident that Salvation is yours, in that if you were to die right now, you would be in Glory with the Lord or you would be saved from your sins. Now do you also believe that millions just like you, yet today if they were to die, would spend eternity separated from God in everlasting fire ! Now what made the difference in you going to Glory to be with the Lord and the others going to hell ? Now whatever you are right now thinking made the difference, that is what you glory in !
 
eg

Who said I did not know?
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If you do, then please quit playing silly and childish games, I have no time for it !

You quoted post 248 earlier, and evaded the point/s I made, now do you care to rehears the point with me or not ?
 
cfultz3 said:
about as foolish as one who actually evades and then accuses others of it? You know well that he meant that you had no point because "whosoever" nullifies your predestination.

Consider your predestination theology: what is the purpose of the final Judgment?
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Now you quoted post 248 and evaded my points made, please rehearse the points made with me, did you understand them ? What was I showing ?
 
Acts 26:29

29 And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”

Predestination advocates would interpret ALL as SOME... We know some didn't believe Paul's testimony, maybe some did and Paul almost persuaded Agrippa. Therefore if Paul truly believed that some men and woman are doomed from the womb, this verse would be a contradiction to Paul's belief.
 
quickened77 said:
Romans 8[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Apparently through Christ. I see a lot of He He He and nothing of me me me.
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lol. Were does me in trusting (faith) someone else to do the work for me have anything to do with ME? It is not about me, it is about the one I am trusting

Faith is not me. Faith is in the person you are trusting.

The ONLY way faith is in me is if I trust myself to be good enough God will accept me (I), or if I trust my good deeds will get me to heaven (Again I).

Free will chosing to trust God, His Promise, And his work on the cross is not about ME. It is about GOD. It is me sitting still, and saying Ok God I can;t help myself. I am doomed, You have to SAVE ME.

Whome he foreknew. Thats the key word. What did he know about me to cause him to chose me? That I would trust him (faith) or that I would somehow be worthy of his chosing, and the one next to me he did not chose would not be worthy??
 
svedbygrace said:
eg



If you do, then please quit playing silly and childish games, I have no time for it !

You quoted post 248 earlier, and evaded the point/s I made, now do you care to rehears the point with me or not ?
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Why would I rehearse an invalid point?

Your premise is in error. thus everything which is based on that premise is in error.

Your the one being childish. I did not comment on the whole thing. I commented on the one point, You do not even wish to discuss that point. Like a spoiled kid who does not get his way.
 
Bookends said:
Acts 26:29

29 And Paul said, “I would to God that not only you, but also all who hear me today, might become both almost and altogether such as I am, except for these chains.”

Predestination advocates would interpret ALL as SOME... We know some didn't believe Paul's testimony, maybe some did and Paul almost persuaded Agrippa. Therefore if Paul truly believed that some men and woman are doomed from the womb, this verse would be a contradiction to Paul's belief.
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why even work to be a light to bring the world to Christ? Why would paul sacrifice his whole life for people. If it was a given they would come to Christ no matter what. Is God a God who wants us to suffer for no reason??
 
eternally-gratefull said:

The difference belief and faith is simple. Why are you trying to make it so complicated.

I can believe in God, and Jesus and Death. but that does not mean anything.

I can believe it, But trust my work and my effort is needed to save me (save myself or legalism)

I can believe it, yet not think I am such a bad sinner that I really need saved. Thus my faith is in myself (licentious)

Unless I Trust his word. and the whole of the gospel. My belief is no better than the demons, who also believe, and my faith is dead.

Faith is a trust. And it is faith which justifies. and it is justification which cleanses. and it is this cleansing which makes us born again.
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Exercising Faith brings forth the works of God that are done for salvation to all that choose to beleive God. God does the works needed to be done. As Christ said it> it is not I that do the works, rather my Father who lives in me
Is this not to be true for all the believers God comes to live in us the very first day we beleive, and if we exercise this belief, will God not lead us into all truth, the truth that sets us free in him?
Do you believe this?
 
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