The topic is 'How freewill salvation perverts God's justice'.
So what is the topic ? It's important indeed.
How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice !
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The topic is 'How freewill salvation perverts God's justice'.
So what is the topic ? It's important indeed.
.....Brother, in keeping the law, will you kill me as the man of yesterday? I also say, who made you a judge and Lord over us? Why would we wrong each other? Have we here did any wrong except that in your will we find opposition to each other? I suppose that by God's hand we will all be delievered but some fail to understand that. Just as God sees one of his children suffer to wrongdoing, as in Cain and Abel, he will stand by him and avenge him that be in oppression. So tell me therefore, MOSES, why my God would allow you to kill the Egyptian by your hand and deliever your law of evils to our hearts without sin? My fellow servant is delievered by God. By your law and hand its beyond God's will. Therefore, in Christ, we are not partakers of the veil. We stand by our bretheren, pure of heart, with no need of your filthy laws. Those laws are for the killer as you were in Egypt and the avengement of the bretheren you killed. So therefore, as a killer, you keep the laws given to you. For we abide in love and not in laws.
It is very sad that most people, not knowing God's justice, do not know that those who know Messiah follow His example in obeying the teachings of the Old Testament. This translates as mercy trumping the law when mercy may be extended, as did our Savior with the woman caught in adultery. Sinners do not judge sinners to a death sentence.
Of course those who have come to Messiah do not either, for that type of judgment is not handed over to the saints in this age.
In short, no one wants to kill you; at least none of the saints do. Perhaps any who are caught up in a false spirit of religion look for the sins of others in order to condemn them, but those who believe Jesus frankly cannot do such a barbarity.
Stop looking for others to condemn you, be you from yesterday or last week.
Of course those who have come to Messiah do not either, for that type of judgment is not handed over to the saints in this age.
In short, no one wants to kill you; at least none of the saints do. Perhaps any who are caught up in a false spirit of religion look for the sins of others in order to condemn them, but those who believe Jesus frankly cannot do such a barbarity.
Stop looking for others to condemn you, be you from yesterday or last week.
C
cfultz3
Guest
I will assume you misunderstood something from what you quoted me having said and will ask you to re-read.
And? What do you say of the rest of my reply? Did not Jesus willfully obey God? Did not Adam and Eve willfully disobey God? Will not one willfully take or not take the mark of the beast? What about all those "whosoevers" found in Scripture. I took the time to reply to your post, will you not do the same?
Jag, Im not saying I am right, I am asking you to explain what you are saying helps us understand the topic.
The topic is:
'How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice' the question really means does the Arminian view of mans 'will' pervert God's Justice.
So its about a couple of things in specific... God's Justice and the extent of man's will and how they interact.
Humanity is in a state of a Fallen nature...as where Adam and Eve from the Fall (hence all humanity (except Jesus)). to go back to your original statement.. Adam and Eve (and only these pair) where originally created good but they fell and therefore all humanity after them..so no human has a pure heart (unless in Christ) . Mans (human) nature reflects in everything he does and thinks about. that's the basis of the topic..
The topic is:
'How freewill salvation perverts God's Justice' the question really means does the Arminian view of mans 'will' pervert God's Justice.
So its about a couple of things in specific... God's Justice and the extent of man's will and how they interact.
Humanity is in a state of a Fallen nature...as where Adam and Eve from the Fall (hence all humanity (except Jesus)). to go back to your original statement.. Adam and Eve (and only these pair) where originally created good but they fell and therefore all humanity after them..so no human has a pure heart (unless in Christ) . Mans (human) nature reflects in everything he does and thinks about. that's the basis of the topic..
Yep, thats why I said I feel God wants me to abide in the creation, nothing past the 7th day.
Ok, so you 'feel' God wants you to abide in nothing past the 7th day (as this is a hot topic on its own).. Explain why and how that fits into the topic? Don't go into the '7th day' for that's a different topic..
so if you abide in creation like all humanity does.. what does that say about God's justice and what does that say about your 'will' in relation to God's justice within salvation (as the OP asks)?
He has had Mercy on me, because I believe, I have received, and I have received new life in the Spirit of God, through the Son, Jesus Christ, my Advocate. And all that believe God receives, because God is a Merciful God and forgave all the debt of sin that caused death. Christ separated sin form death to give life by his resurrection from Father
To those that claim to beleive and do not are in God's way, and not giving Mercy as God has
Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Blasphemy is unbelief:
[h=3]Mark 3:27-29[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: [SUP]29 [/SUP]but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
[h=3]Luke 7:48-50[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. [SUP]49 [/SUP]And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? [SUP]50 [/SUP]And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
Acts 26:18 to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Im not talking about the sabbath(that is man's creation). Im talking about being as God intended us to be. Without flaw. Perfect in creation. If that's not complex or argumentative enough then I have nothing else for you. I believe its that simple. Do I believe a lot has to be done to get humanity there? Yes. I also believe it has a lot to do with the teachings in the bible. Im not writting those off. I am just saying when its all said and done thats where we will be.
All will have had threir chance to beleive or not beleive God; for their will be no excuse for man at the day of Judgment when that day comes, for all will know and all will have made their fianl answer Choice consciously and none will have an excuse for where they go righteously judged by Father through Son.
And as far as the ones that did not know, know today after the resurrected Christ for he preached to them in prison and took captivity captive, all those that beleived went out of prison with him. He also took the keys from Satan of Heaven and Hell.
The Devil didpleased and judged today, defeated by Christ, by the resurrection thanks to Father. We are a saved bunch of beleivers by God the Father through the Son period.
And that can't be changed. The only thing the enemy, flesh and devil have now is to cause dis belief in this fact that God so much loved us that he gave us his only begotten Son to give us new life in him and be saved, either one believes this or does not.
No brag just fact: that can nev er be Changed, God is the same caring Father God has always been and has by Son given Mercy to all that beleive God
Love you
We all want to live as God desires..to be conformed to the likeness of Christ His Son.. Yet the topic question is very relevant to biblical truth.. what does the bible say.
I never mentioned the Sabbath, I am asking what your statement has to do with man's will and God's justice as the OP question states.
Christ died for all
· Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
· Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
· 1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
· Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
· Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
· Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
· Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
· Hebrews 9:12
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
· Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
· Hebrews 10:1
[ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
· Hebrews 10:2
Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
· Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
There is no more sacrifice, forgiveness to be executed on God’s behalf, Christ took it all at the cross?
Not all will necessarily choose to beleive this and thus will die again a second death knowingly have chosen this, there will be no excuse at Juidgme
Christ died for all
· Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
· Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
· 1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
· Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
· Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
· Hebrews 5:9
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
· Hebrews 7:27
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
· Hebrews 9:12
He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
· Hebrews 9:26
Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
· Hebrews 10:1
[ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
· Hebrews 10:2
Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
· Hebrews 10:10
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
There is no more sacrifice, forgiveness to be executed on God’s behalf, Christ took it all at the cross?
When Judgment day is here there will bne no excuse for mankind as to where they righteously go, God makes that choice
Don't know that yet Satan is defeated, has been judged, and God is still in control
John 16:11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Yes sir eee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And to keep me humble I receive a messenger of Satan to buffet me, for when I think I am strong, I am not, Christ is my rock, my strength and my salvation, my way ,my truth and new life that is given to me by Father as in Romans 6:1-11
Just to bring it back on topic..
What is God's justice? How is God Just and How does he show and will show he is just?
What is God's justice? How is God Just and How does he show and will show he is just?
So stand maybe in this: Belief and be firm in it to the end, see below the full gospel of beleif, that Paul is the minister of
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
That is it Jimmy who will beleive or stay in unbeleif that we are originally born with? For all will ,have had their chance to change theri mind and beleive or not, when the Holy Spirit does the convicting, and that is when the decision is made to beleive or not, just as in the day of Pentecost, God spoke through the disciples via the Holy Spirit , the same Holy Spirit that led Christ and this same Holy Spirit of God that is to lead us today.