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biblelearner123

biblelearner123

Senior Member
#1
Oct 20, 2016
202
9
18
#1
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
#2
If your God. I would agree,

Unfortunately we are not God. Our love will not be PERFECT until we are in our future state. So we can love, and still fail. Because we re not perfect.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#3
Jun 30, 2015
24,681
13,368
113
#3
biblelearner123 said:
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
Click to expand...
The Thyatiran Christians were known to God for their love, but despite all that they did well, they tolerated a dangerous false teacher. That's a common error: loving people so much that you overlook their sin instead of addressing it. It's not that the love is nullified, but it is not guided by wisdom and truth in every case. Further, the rightness of one's actions in one area doesn't spill over and make everything right (another common misunderstanding), and the wrongness of one's actions doesn't spill over and make everything wrong (a common fallacious argument). It just points to a problem.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#4
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#4
biblelearner123 said:
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
Click to expand...
Who was the letter addressed to?.....the MESSENGER of the Church ( I know KING Jimmy says angel <--Greek word MESSENGER) I.E. the PASTOR of the church....YOU is singular.....now think about what is being said.......MANY forget that these letters are ADDRESSED to the MESSENGERS (PASTORS) of these 7 churches.......
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#5
Jul 2, 2011
21,229
6,526
113
#5
biblelearner123 said:
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
Click to expand...
Let us think on this, all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. This group includes all the righteous by faith and the self-righteous who believe they do not. It is worth the meditation.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#6
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#6
biblelearner123 said:
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
Click to expand...
Thats an interesting passage..Jesus wrote to the seven churches and while they were making the effort they still had room for improvement. Its like you getting a report card for school, you get all As except for one subject where you get a F Does it nullify all the As you received, no, but the F is something you really need to address.
Jesus identified it was a problem with a certain teacher. So it might be that the F you get is cos you are going to the wrong class and should actually get rid of that teacher who is putting you wrong.
 
biblelearner123

biblelearner123

Senior Member
#7
Oct 20, 2016
202
9
18
#7
dcontroversal said:
Who was the letter addressed to?.....the MESSENGER of the Church ( I know KING Jimmy says angel <--Greek word MESSENGER) I.E. the PASTOR of the church....YOU is singular.....now think about what is being said.......MANY forget that these letters are ADDRESSED to the MESSENGERS (PASTORS) of these 7 churches.......
Click to expand...
Can't "You" be used in plural too though? Interesting to know whom it's specifically addressed to; still good to consider as if it were addressed to us (well, to whomever needed)
 
biblelearner123

biblelearner123

Senior Member
#8
Oct 20, 2016
202
9
18
#8
Lanolin said:
Thats an interesting passage..Jesus wrote to the seven churches and while they were making the effort they still had room for improvement. Its like you getting a report card for school, you get all As except for one subject where you get a F Does it nullify all the As you received, no, but the F is something you really need to address.
Jesus identified it was a problem with a certain teacher. So it might be that the F you get is cos you are going to the wrong class and should actually get rid of that teacher who is putting you wrong.
Click to expand...
That analogy was helpful! Yet here's the thing which I'm getting confused. Doesn't the church/believers already know that the stated act is a sin? And even after knowing that they choose to be lured. Doesn't that nullify love? Cos I thought most important commandment was Love your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your strength.
Or did they not know that it was a sin? Perhaps they did not receive written Scriptures?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#10
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#10
biblelearner123 said:
Can't "You" be used in plural too though? Interesting to know whom it's specifically addressed to; still good to consider as if it were addressed to us (well, to whomever needed)
Click to expand...
I do not think so to the bolded and while it is addressed to a church it is addressed to the only one in a position to influence the church I.E. the pastor......plus.....You ALL is used the majority of the time to address the plural aspect.....and notice he states....YOU......and then MY SERVANTS......singular then plural.....
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#11
#11
biblelearner123 said:
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
Click to expand...
Your question is a non sequitur. Being loving and being caught in a sin are not mutually exclusive. some of the most loving people that I've ever met in my life were caught up in some kind of sin. The kind of people that would give you the shirt off their back, let destitute people live in their home, feed anybody that asks for food, go to their neighbors that they know were having trouble and bring them food, mowing injured man's yard for him without even asking, yet rampant adulterers, and drunkards.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#12
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,872
113
#12
biblelearner123 said:
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time?
Click to expand...
Because the old Adamic sin nature (called "the flesh") has not been eradicated by God.

Christians are required to crucify or mortify the flesh by refusing to yield to its lusts. See Galatians 5.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#13
Jul 24, 2016
7,425
3,474
113
#13
biblelearner123 said:
Revelation 2:19
I know your works, love,, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.
Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Here's my doubt
How is it possible to have true love and be seduced by sin at the same time? Wouldn't that nullify the love they have?

Thanks for explanations in advance!
Click to expand...
Do you have the capacity to love others? I hope you do..

Have you ever been loving towards others? I hope you have and still do..

Have you ever sinned and do you still sin? I am sure you have and you still do just like the rest of us human beings..

So how can you possibly recon that if a person sins they are unable to have and show true love ???
 
biblelearner123

biblelearner123

Senior Member
#14
Oct 20, 2016
202
9
18
#14
Adstar said:
Do you have the capacity to love others? I hope you do..

Have you ever been loving towards others? I hope you have and still do..

Have you ever sinned and do you still sin? I am sure you have and you still do just like the rest of us human beings..

So how can you possibly recon that if a person sins they are unable to have and show true love ???
Click to expand...
Thanks for these rhetorical questions, helps me to understand better...

But if we know a particular act is sin and willingly do it doesn't this verse mean we aren't showing true love?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [c]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrew 6:4-6
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#15
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#15
biblelearner123 said:
Thanks for these rhetorical questions, helps me to understand better...

But if we know a particular act is sin and willingly do it doesn't this verse mean we aren't showing true love?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [c]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrew 6:4-6
Click to expand...
God's word spells out the definition of sinful behavior as a guide. We learn to recognize our behavior as fruits of the spirit or of the flesh. Some sinful habits take longer than others.

If we stop putting off the works of the flesh for any reason, we risk being cut off. By cut off I mean not given what we need to grow in Christ, not given more faith, discernment and wisdom. That is a dangerous place to be.

While working in drug rehab, I came across a man that had done quite well reordering his life. He was working and not doing drugs or alcohol. But he still liked women and having sex with them. He did not think he could stop doing that. He told me that God would just have to understand. I just cringed, I knew that was the end of his growth. :cautious:
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#16
Jul 24, 2016
7,425
3,474
113
#16
biblelearner123 said:
Thanks for these rhetorical questions, helps me to understand better...

But if we know a particular act is sin and willingly do it doesn't this verse mean we aren't showing true love?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [c]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrew 6:4-6
Click to expand...
Your Words now move from sin to WILLINGLY sin.. Moving the goal posts by a the proverbial mile..

I am not talking about willful sin.. I am talking about humans who sin but not with a willful attitude..

Also The verse you quote Hebrews 6 4-6 Where it does not mention sin at all..

You seem to be interpreting the fall away to be what happens when people sin??

People fall away when the cease to believe Jesus..
People fall, away when the cease to have trust ( Faith ) in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus that saves..

If a person continues to believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement of Jesus they are secure in their salvation..
 
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