How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

All false doctrines do that because teachings simply do not come from bible.

i edited the post check it again

 

[DavidTree]

Bear in mind that Paul is telling the Thessalonians (in v.2) of a FALSE CLAIM ("[purporting] that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT / IS ALREADY HERE [PERFECT INDICATIVE]")...
...so Paul is saying, NOT! In order for that claim to be a TRUE CLAIM, two conditions MUST be in evidence (tho only ONE THING *FIRST*):

1) "THE Departure *FIRST*" (BEFORE the DOTL can "be present" to unfold upon the earth; "THE DEPARTURE FIRST" must take place before that ^ ['the day of the Lord IS PRESENT'] can be stated as a TRUE CLAIM);

2) "and [distinctly] the man of sin be revealed" (he is revealed at the START of the "7 years" not at its MIDDLE; this is the "kick off" play, when the DOTL time period WILL INDEED "BE PRESENT"; WHEN "the man of sin" does his "whose COMING [PRESENCE / parousia / ARRIVAL / ADVENT]" [v.9a] thing, then "the DOTL" will INDEED ALSO "BE PRESENT" to unfold upon the earth)

The 'falling away' is not the Rapture my friend.
It is a 'Departure' from the truth.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess 2: 10-12

 

[DavidTree]

The falling away is a departure but that is a moral/religious departure not a physical departure like TDW thinks. The word cannot and does not mean to depart physically somewhere like in a Rapture. Pre-tribs have to cghange the words definition so they can make it seem to speak about rapture when it doesn't.

You have to be really desperate to change the meaning of scripture that badly.

 

[Runningman]

Pre-tribbers believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 is their one and only Bible verse that proves a pre-trib rapture. Not only do the words used not support a pre-trib ratpure, but the context doesn't fit a pre-trib rapture either.

For example, pre-tribbers are looking to be gathered to Jesus when He returns, but 2 Thessalonians 2 says Jesus doesn't return until after the "man of sin", I believe the KJV refers to him as "that Wicked", is already sitting in the temple of God, claiming himself to be God.

Naturally, if Jesus does not return until after the man of sin (we typically call him The Antichrist) is already in the temple claiming to be God and the church is not gathered until Jesus returns then it's very easy logic to conclude that Jesus returns to end the great tribulation and rapture the church. The rapture is post-trib.

 

[rayzor]

rev 3:10
Because u have kept the word of
patience.I will also will keep u from
the hour of temptation.

 

[Runningman]

rev 3:10
Because u have kept the word of
patience.I will also will keep u from
the hour of temptation.

That verse is to the church in Philadelphia only. It doesn't say anything at all about being being raptured, leaving the earth, being gathered to Christ, etc.

 

[rayzor]

That verse is to the church in Philadelphia only. It doesn't say anything at all about being being raptured, leaving the earth, being gathered to Christ, etc.

yes end it means the city of brothers love...So r u saying the rest of the earth must go though the great temptation?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

It's a conditional promise to 1 from 7 of the early churches in Asia minor.
It hardly works as a pillar for a doctrine concerning the worldwide body of Christ at the time of his return.

 

[rayzor]

The devil has professional arguers.R u one of them?.....Lucy-Pevensie..Just asking.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Expressed seven times in chpts 2-3 (in the "things WHICH ARE" section) -

"what the Spirit SAITH unto the churchES"

(not only to the one church named in each of those sections, right??)

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The devil has professional arguers.R u one of them?.....Lucy-Pevensie..Just asking.

You're just asking me if I'm an agent of the devil because I stated a basic fact about a verse?

 

[rayzor]

You're just asking me if I'm an agent of the devil because I stated a basic fact about a verse?

Where dos it say. It's just 4 that time?...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

For example, pre-tribbers are looking to be gathered to Jesus when He returns, but 2 Thessalonians 2 says Jesus doesn't return until after the "man of sin",

I address this same issue with you every few weeks. The enlarged portion of your quote (esp the underlined word) is NOT CORRECT.

The BIBLICAL use of the word "RETURN" (when used re: Jesus) speaks ONLY OF His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19).

Examples:

--"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom")... THEN the meal [G347--aka the earthly MK age]--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (parallel with Matthew 24:42-51);

--"RETURN" Luke 19:12,15,17,19, when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over ten CITIES" / "over five CITIES"--"cities" being located ON THE EARTH (parallel with Matthew 25:14-30);


--notice the "parallel passages" that connect with these two... they are found in His Olivet Discourse, which is Jesus covering the Subject of His Second Coming to the earth (NOT our Rapture [IN THE AIR]), and what immediately precedes and LEADS UP TO *that* (when, thereafter, the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age will commence)

 

[Runningman]

yes end it means the city of brothers love...So r u saying the rest of the earth must go though the great temptation?

Revelation 3:10 is pretty clear. The Philadelphia church will be kept from "the hour of temptation" that will come upon the world. The same promise is not made to any other body of people in the world.

 

[Runningman]

I address this same issue with you every few weeks. The enlarged portion of your quote (esp the underlined word) is NOT CORRECT.

The BIBLICAL use of the word "RETURN" (when used re: Jesus) speaks ONLY OF His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19).

Examples:

--"when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom")... THEN the meal [G347--aka the earthly MK age]--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 (parallel with Matthew 24:42-51);

--"RETURN" Luke 19:12,15,17,19, when He will deal out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over ten CITIES" / "over five CITIES"--"cities" being located ON THE EARTH (parallel with Matthew 25:14-30);


--notice the "parallel passages" that connect with these two... they are found in His Olivet Discourse, which is Jesus covering the Subject of His Second Coming to the earth (NOT our Rapture [IN THE AIR]), and what immediately precedes and LEADS UP TO *that* (when, thereafter, the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age will commence)

That's blatantly false. The plain text of the passage I referenced doesn't leave room for a pre-trib rapture or pre-trib return of Christ.

 

[Runningman]

The devil has professional arguers.R u one of them?.....Lucy-Pevensie..Just asking.

You come to a Bible discussion forum and start calling people Satanic for discussing the Bible? Seriously?

 

[rayzor]

You come to a Bible discussion forum and start calling people Satanic for discussing the Bible? Seriously?

Please Please we all hav been tools of the bad guy.It was quets.. not a statement!

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Where dos it say. It's just 4 that time?...

It doesn't. But does it say it's only for the resurrection generation?

And why would Revelation 3:10 apply to the resurrection generation but Revelation 2:10 does not?

Revelation 2:10
" Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown."

If people want to cherry-pick just one line from Seven letters and apply it to now while ignoring all the other conditions, warnings and promises because they think it supports a pretrib rapture, they are entitled to do that. But it is an inconsistent approach I don't agree with.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

That's blatantly false. The plain text of the passage I referenced doesn't leave room for a pre-trib rapture or pre-trib return of Christ.

It is your assumption (an incorrect one, borne out by the entire context) that the following two are EQUATED (but they are NOT):

--V.1 "the coming/presence/parousia of OUR Lord Jesus Christ, and OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" (when only WE will be "caught up TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR"... and NO ONE ELSE! [this is NOT His "RETURN"!]);
Accurately GRASPING what vv.2-3 is conveying (and recognizing that THIS SEQUENCE is repeated by Paul 3x in the text which follows), will bring one to the correct conclusion that there is "ONE THING *FIRST*" that must take place BEFORE "the day of the Lord" can INDEED be "present" (as the FALSE CLAIM was purporting to be TRUE, according to v.2);
...and we KNOW from what Paul stated earlier in 1Th5:2-3 that "the DOTL" (the Subject of 2Th2:2,3a) ARRIVES "EXACTLY AS" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"--the very ones that Jesus Himself spoke of, and which are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6 at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period, per Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 (aka at the START of the "future" specific, LIMITED time period we commonly call the "Trib" [aka "7 years" / "for ONE WEEK"]--NOT *arriving* at its CONCLUSION ["the DOTL" does not "ARRIVE" at the END of the Trib!])


--V.8b "the MANIFESTATION of His presence/parousia" (when He will come to the earth and DESTROY the man of sin)




Verse 1 and Verse 8b are DISTINCT things occurring at very DISTINCT time-slots.




Just like Verse 8a and Verse 8b are referring to entirely DISTINCT time-slots!

(the man of sin is not "destroyed" the exact moment he is "revealed," and I do not think even you would claim such a thing... though some may attempt to claim such, who fail to grasp the chronology issues, and do not care to...)

 

[rayzor]

It doesn't. But does it say it's only for the resurrection generation?

And why would Revelation 3:10 apply to the resurrection generation but Revelation 2:10 does not?

Revelation 2:10
" Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown."

If people want to cherry-pick just one line from Seven letters and apply it to now while ignoring all the other conditions, warnings and promises because they think it supports a pretrib rapture, they are entitled to do that. But it is an inconsistent approach I don't agree with.

um i did not state that either did I?I know it's both. It what's good 4 that snow flake.I'm not a pretrib or unpretrib it becomes a stumbling block,,, When the motive is pride.Even when 1 is right.