How to Spot a Legalist

[dcontroversal]

No, you don't put the cart before the horse..but you have the horse in the cart!
Also your references are immaterial to the topic at hand.

Not only is the horse in the cart, but it is going over the cliff as well!

 

[FreeNChrist]

You are the one who is in error and instead of facing those scriptures for what they say you go off rambling trying to prove your point but actually make no point at all.

The same Greek word Baptizo is used in all three of the passages, and I do know what Baptizo means and it is not just submerging as a sunken ship. That is just one part of the meaning and usage of that word.

Here is Strong's Greek defines it:

907 Baptizo - Short Definition: I dip, submerge, baptize
Definition: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.

Here is how Thayer's Greek Lexicon show how the usage of this word is applied:

1. properly, to dip repeatedly, to immerge, submerge (of vessels sunk,Polybius 1, 51, 6; 8, 8, 4; of animals, Diodorus 1, 36).
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water; in the middle and the 1 aorist passive to wash oneself, bathe; soMark 7:4 (where WH text ῥαντισωνται); Luke 11:38 (2 Kings 5:14ἐβαπτίσατο ἐν τῷ Ιορδάνῃ, for טָבַל; Sir. 31:30 (Sir. 34:30; Judith 12:7).
3. metaphorically, to overwhelm,
to profess the name (see ὄνομα, 2) of one whose follower we become,Matthew 28:19; Acts 8:16; Acts 19:5; 1 Corinthians 1:13, 15; εἰς ἄφεσινἁμαρτιῶν, to obtain the forgiveness of sins, Acts 2:38;

Also you stated before man can not baptized with the Holy Spirit, and here is your quote:

"You are seriously confused. I never claimed that men could administer Holy Spirit baptism."

As you can see by those scriptures those were all commands for us (men) to do !!!
Therefore these can not be Holy Spirit baptism because if these are commands for us to do, and it is obvious you know that we can not administer the Holy Spirit to others, then you should be in agreement that this is the only baptism that men can administer and that is water immersion baptism in Christ name. If not then you are just still in denial of what they actually say.

God bless and I will pray for you........and my faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ and in that trust through Him for salvation I also trust in what He said for us to do !!!

Please do not pass judgment on me as I have never judged your salvation !!!

Kennys beliefs seem to perfectly align with those of the Church of Christ.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Lets simplify. How do you abide in Christ??

One abides in Christ by abiding in the words of God, and the Living Word of God will also make His abode in you. Abiding in Christ is abiding in the Word of God which is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. God's Word is Spirit and is Life, so to abide in the Life of the Vine (Christ) you must also abide in these.

2 John 9-10 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.[SUP]10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"

 

[FreeNChrist]

One abides in Christ by abiding in the words of God, and the Living Word of God will also make His abode in you. Abiding in Christ is abiding in the Word of God which is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. God's Word is Spirit and is Life, so to abide in the Life of the Vine (Christ) you must also abide in these.

2 John 9-10 "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.[SUP]10 [/SUP]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"

Are you saying that the Bible is Jesus Christ??

 

[BarlyGurl]

Are you saying that the Bible is Jesus Christ??

HA! HA!! HA!!!!....... gosh I hope you were making a joke........ NO... he was NOT saying the bible IS Jesus Christ.

forgive me for speaking for you InSpirit... but that question was just so outrageous...

 

[FreeNChrist]

HA! HA!! HA!!!!....... gosh I hope you were making a joke........he was NOT saying the bible IS Jesus Christ.

forgive me for speaking for you InSpirit... but that question was just so outrageous...

Of course he is. He is making the living Word, Jesus Christ, synonymous with the written word, the Bible.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Of course he is. He is making the living Word, Jesus Christ, synonymous with the written word, the Bible.

The bible is the "recorded and preserved" word of God..it is a BOOK. If you write in a journal, and we read it... is the journal now become YOU???

Do you have mental problem? Learning disability or take medication that suggests you should not operate machinery??? I am just asking, hoping to easily explain the absurd conclusion you have come to.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The bible is the "recorded and preserved" word of God..it is a BOOK. If you write in a journal, and we read it... is the journal now become YOU???

Do you have mental problem? Learning disability or take medication that suggests you should not operate machinery??? I am just asking, hoping to easily explain the absurd conclusion you have come to.

Project much??

 

[ukok102nak]

​
Legalists are tricky creatures.

They slither in the side doors of churches, sign up to lead Bible studies, and fill the minds of once joyous believers with rules and requirements of what it “really means” to become a Christian.

Ask them how a person is saved and they’ll say, “By grace of course,” and then they’ll roll out a scroll across the floor full of checklists to prove your salvation, and prerequisites you must abide by in order to receive this “free gift” of grace.

The Apostle Paul had strong words for the legalists of his time. These legalistic Judaizers wanted the Gentiles to accept God’s grace through faith, but be required to get circumcised and to keep the law of Moses as well. Paul had strong words about them in Galatians 5:12, “As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!”

Wow.

Today, nobody (as far as I know) is seeking to add circumcision to the free gift of God’s grace as a requirement for salvation. No, currently, a far more subtle and sinister movement is creeping into the church.

21st Century Pharisees have replaced circumcision and keeping of the law with a more accepted evangelicalized list of dos and don’ts.

These pious sounding party poopers are getting Christians to doubt their salvation, get discouraged in their salvation, and trying to prove, keep and/or earn their salvation. They are robbing believers of the joy that was once theirs in Christ and replacing it with the heavy yoke of legalism (Acts 15:5-11).

With this in mind, here are 10 ways to spot a legalist in your church:

1. They cheapen grace by focusing on what we must do rather than on what Christ has done.

2. They’ll say nonsensical things like, “Salvation is free, but it will cost you everything you have.”

3. They are “fruit inspectors” and hypothesize how much spiritual fruit a person must produce in order to truly be saved.

4. They focus on things like turning, trying and crying instead of faith alone in Christ alone for salvation.

5. Their “gospel” could never be falsely accused of being a license to sin (like Paul’s was in Romans 3:8!).

6. They scare others with assertions that, if you preach too much grace, people will run amok.

7. They conveniently avoid or misexegete large portions of gospel-centric New Testament books like Galatians, Romans and John.

8. They blend justification passages with sanctification passages, and then try to get us to drink a heresy smoothie.

9. They bake the same works-based righteousness cake that Mormons and Muslims do, but cover it with evangelical frosting.

10. They use the phrase, “You mean to tell me … ” a lot. Then they create worst case salvation scenarios of those who claim to be Christians, but abuse the grace of God. “You mean to tell me that someone can be saved and still … ?”

But grace that cannot be abused is no grace at all. Grace that is not free is no grace at all. Grace that is not received by simple faith is no grace at all.

I like the way Paul put it in Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.” It’s either by grace or by works. It can’t be by both.

But here’s the crazy thing about grace, once you receive it through faith it begins to transform you.

Jesus changes your “wanter” and you become a new creation. Sure we can abuse it and, if we’re honest, often do. But when we let grace do its work it “teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age” (Titus 2:12).

God’s grace is not a license to sin, but a reason to serve Jesus with reckless abandon … not because we have to, but because we get to.

If we resist, he persists.
If we fail, he forgives.
If we lose our faith, he remains faithful (2 Timothy 2:13).

That makes me want to serve Him all the more. Sorry legalists, but grace is a better fuel. As for you agitators, I wish you would go the whole way and... cut it out.



Greg Stier of Dare2Share Ministries in a post on ChurchLeaders.com​

good day sir,

nice topic

please allow me share some simple words
written in the scriptures,

Luke 2:21
And when eight days were completed for Him to be circumcised, His Name was called יהושע, the Name given by the messenger before He was conceived in the womb.

Acts 7:8
“And He gave him the covenant of circumcision. And so he brought forth Yitsḥaq and circumcised him on the eighth day. And Yitsḥaq brought forth Ya‛aqoḇ, and Ya‛aqoḇ brought forth the twelve ancestors.


Acts 15:1
And certain men came down from Yehuḏah and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised, according to the practice of Mosheh, you are unable to be saved.”
Acts 15:2
So when Sha’ul and Barnaḇah had no small dissension and dispute with them, they arranged for Sha’ul and Barnaḇah and certain others of them to go up to Yerushalayim, to the emissaries and elders, about this question.

Acts 10:45
And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Kĕpha, because the gift of the Set-apart Spirit had been poured out on the gentiles also,

as we read this verses, we can easily see that the holy spirit was even special to the gentiles for it had been poured out on the gentiles also,
I DONT KNOW IF SOMEONE HERE WOULD STAND AND SAY
``THOSE GENTILES WERE CIRCUMCISE AT THAT TIME, THEY WOULDN'T KNOW COZ THEY NEVER SAW IT WHAT'S IN THERE BELOW`` :rofl:

that is why even paul and his companion is againsn't to some teachings of moises and one of that teachings is the
``cimcurcision``
AND EVEN PETER HIMSELF IS AGAINST IT
Acts 11:2
And when Kĕpha went up to Yerushalayim, those of the circumcision were contending with him,

DID YOU KNOW THAT IT IS FORBIDDEN TO A JEW TO HAVE A CONTACT
TO ANY GENTILES AT THAT TIME FOR IT WAD THEIR TRADITION!
Acts 11:3
3 saying, “You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!”
4 But Kĕpha began and set it forth in order, saying:
5 “I was in the city of Yapho praying. And in a trance I saw a vision, a certain vessel descending like a great sheet, let down from the heaven by four corners, and it came to me.
6 “Having looked into it, I perceived and I saw four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping creatures, and the birds of heaven.
7 “And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise up, Kĕpha, slay and eat.’
8 “But I said, ‘Not at all, Master! Because whatever is common or unclean has never entered into my mouth.’
9 “And the voice answered me again from the heaven, ‘What Elohim has cleansed you do not consider common.’
10 “And this took place three times, and all were drawn up again into the heaven.
11 “And see, immediately three men stood before the house where I was, having been sent to me from Caesarea.
12 “And the Spirit said to me to go with them, not doubting at all. And these six brothers also went with me, and we went into the man’s house.


for they the early isralites, even they were the choisen people before,
they only base that teaching from flesh because god intended them to do that within the people of isralites so that they can be distinguised from other humans who worshipped other gods.
``IS THERE ANY WRITTEN SCRIPTURES COMING FROM THE HOLY BIBLE ITSELF THAT COULD TELL US
WHEN AND WHERE IN THE COMMANDMENTS OF CIRCUMCISSION EXPLAINED IT WAS REALLY A BIG DEAL TO ATTAIN THE SALVATION OF PURIFYING OUR SOULS
BY DOING IT LITERALLY IN FLESH?``
Colossians 3:11
where there is not Greek and Yehuḏite, circumcised and uncircumcised, foreigner, Scythian, slave, free, but Messiah is all, and in all.

Galatians 5:6
For in Messiah יהושע neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but belief working through love.


``PLEASE INFORM SOMEONE IF THEY WERE TOLD THAT THIS GUY IS THE MESSIAH``
Colossians 4:11
also Yeshua who is called Justus. These are my only fellow workers for the reign of Elohim who are of the circumcision, who were to me a comfort.
IS HE? OR DOES HE?
Philippians 3:5
circumcised the eighth day, of the race of Yisra’ĕl, of the tribe of Binyamin, a Heḇrew of Heḇrews, according to Torah a Pharisee,

FOR MANY WERE DECIEVED BY THIS VERSE
MISTAKEN SOMEONE FOR SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE EASILY UNDERSTAND
WITHOUT KEEPING THE WORD OF GOD TO HIS HEART AND SOUL!!
Colossians 4:11
also Yeshua who is called Justus. These are my only fellow workers for the reign of Elohim who are of the circumcision, who were to me a comfort.

Titus 1:10
For there are many unruly men, senseless talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,

i my self doing this as my promise to him
and im not even a jewish

please read the whole chapter and do not depend on a certain verses only if there's have doubt to any mind of a certain people.
Romans 2:1
Therefore, O man, you are without excuse, everyone who judges, for in which you judge another you condemn yourself, since you who judge practise the same wrongs.

 

[ukok102nak]

please forgive me for asking something
in return because all i want is
to ask also for i am not all knowing :ty:

this is my question:
in acts 11:2 up to acrs 11:12
what kind of understanding ( spiritual understanding)
occur from this verses?

i
thank you very much :ty:

​
Legalists are tricky creatures.


They slither in the side doors of churches, sign up to lead Bible studies, and fill the minds of once joyous believers with rules and requirements of what it “really means” to become a Christian.


Ask them how a person is saved and they’ll say, “By grace of course,” and then they’ll roll out a scroll across the floor full of checklists to prove your salvation, and prerequisites you must abide by in order to receive this “free gift” of grace.


The Apostle Paul had strong words for the legalists of his time. These legalistic Judaizers wanted the Gentiles to accept God’s grace through faith, but be required to get circumcised and to keep the law of Moses as well. Paul had strong words about them in Galatians 5:12, “As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!”


Wow.


Today, nobody (as far as I know) is seeking to add circumcision to the free gift of God’s grace as a requirement for salvation. No, currently, a far more subtle and sinister movement is creeping into the church.


21st Century Pharisees have replaced circumcision and keeping of the law with a more accepted evangelicalized list of dos and don’ts.


These pious sounding party poopers are getting Christians to doubt their salvation, get discouraged in their salvation, and trying to prove, keep and/or earn their salvation. They are robbing believers of the joy that was once theirs in Christ and replacing it with the heavy yoke of legalism (Acts 15:5-11).


With this in mind, here are 10 ways to spot a legalist in your church:


1. They cheapen grace by focusing on what we must do rather than on what Christ has done.


2. They’ll say nonsensical things like, “Salvation is free, but it will cost you everything you have.”


3. They are “fruit inspectors” and hypothesize how much spiritual fruit a person must produce in order to truly be saved.


4. They focus on things like turning, trying and crying instead of faith alone in Christ alone for salvation.


5. Their “gospel” could never be falsely accused of being a license to sin (like Paul’s was in Romans 3:8!).


6. They scare others with assertions that, if you preach too much grace, people will run amok.


7. They conveniently avoid or misexegete large portions of gospel-centric New Testament books like Galatians, Romans and John.


8. They blend justification passages with sanctification passages, and then try to get us to drink a heresy smoothie.


9. They bake the same works-based righteousness cake that Mormons and Muslims do, but cover it with evangelical frosting.


10. They use the phrase, “You mean to tell me … ” a lot. Then they create worst case salvation scenarios of those who claim to be Christians, but abuse the grace of God. “You mean to tell me that someone can be saved and still … ?”


But grace that cannot be abused is no grace at all. Grace that is not free is no grace at all. Grace that is not received by simple faith is no grace at all.


I like the way Paul put it in Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.” It’s either by grace or by works. It can’t be by both.


But here’s the crazy thing about grace, once you receive it through faith it begins to transform you.


Jesus changes your “wanter” and you become a new creation. Sure we can abuse it and, if we’re honest, often do. But when we let grace do its work it “teaches us to say ‘No’ to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age” (Titus 2:12).


God’s grace is not a license to sin, but a reason to serve Jesus with reckless abandon … not because we have to, but because we get to.


If we resist, he persists.
If we fail, he forgives.
If we lose our faith, he remains faithful (2 Timothy 2:13).


That makes me want to serve Him all the more. Sorry legalists, but grace is a better fuel. As for you agitators, I wish you would go the whole way

 

[Brother_Don]

Christ Jesus will rule with an iron rod, that sounds pretty strict.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Christ Jesus will rule with an iron rod, that sounds pretty strict.

How does that relate to the OP?

 

[Elysian]

I just recently saw this on a church sign. They obviously don't understand the difference.

View attachment 135913

As far as the world is concerned Christians are all legalists and I actually think they have a better grasp on the meaning of this word than we do.The fact is Christians have misused the word ''legalist'' so much that it has lost all meaning.

 

[FreeNChrist]

As far as the world is concerned Christians are all legalists and I actually think they have a better grasp on the meaning of this word than we do.The fact is Christians have misused the word ''legalist'' so much that it has lost all meaning.

Could you elaborate?

 

[Dianneh]

good morning, so? is this where we all beginning with out discussion?

 

[FreeNChrist]

good morning, so? is this where we all beginning with out discussion?

Apparently this is english class 101.

 

[Dianneh]

I have been reading the above statements, some of you sure do write a lot of information it takes a real long time to read and if you have questions grab your bible and begin your own little study. I have a lot of questions and statements of my own in my head as I hold my bible. Of course, now I have my own understanding and/or belief. I don't understand though why people want to say I am save by grace and leave it. truly we are saved by grace, but is that all to it? Revelation 14:12 reads:

HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDEMENTS OF GOD AND THE FATH OF JESUS.

so? is it ONLY grace that saves us or is grace the beginning?

 

[KennethC]

I have been reading the above statements, some of you sure do write a lot of information it takes a real long time to read and if you have questions grab your bible and begin your own little study. I have a lot of questions and statements of my own in my head as I hold my bible. Of course, now I have my own understanding and/or belief. I don't understand though why people want to say I am save by grace and leave it. truly we are saved by grace, but is that all to it? Revelation 14:12 reads:

HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDEMENTS OF GOD AND THE FATH OF JESUS.

so? is it ONLY grace that saves us or is grace the beginning?

Apostle Paul states it the best way:

(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

He says we are saved by grace through faith, meaning only through the faith of the Lord is one under God's grace that saves, and Paul does not leave it at just that as we read on the Ephesians 4.

Apostle Paul in Ephesians 4:3-32 states how we are to keep the unity with the Holy Spirit by walking properly in the faith, and breaks down how we can and can not walk. He says those who continue to work uncleanness have not learned Christ. We are only sealed by the Holy Spirit as Paul states in verse 30 if we keep that unity.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I have been reading the above statements, some of you sure do write a lot of information it takes a real long time to read and if you have questions grab your bible and begin your own little study. I have a lot of questions and statements of my own in my head as I hold my bible. Of course, now I have my own understanding and/or belief. I don't understand though why people want to say I am save by grace and leave it. truly we are saved by grace, but is that all to it? Revelation 14:12 reads:

HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDEMENTS OF GOD AND THE FATH OF JESUS.

so? is it ONLY grace that saves us or is grace the beginning?

It is only Jesus Christ who saves us, by grace through faith. From beginning to end.

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him" Colossians 2:6

 

[notuptome]

I have been reading the above statements, some of you sure do write a lot of information it takes a real long time to read and if you have questions grab your bible and begin your own little study. I have a lot of questions and statements of my own in my head as I hold my bible. Of course, now I have my own understanding and/or belief. I don't understand though why people want to say I am save by grace and leave it. truly we are saved by grace, but is that all to it? Revelation 14:12 reads:

HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS: HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDEMENTS OF GOD AND THE FATH OF JESUS.

so? is it ONLY grace that saves us or is grace the beginning?

Grace saves us with nothing added. There is nothing that we could add even if we wanted to add everything we have.

Do we leave it at that? Nope it's just the beginning. The beginning of our new life in Christ. All things are new the old things are passed away. 2 Cor 5:17 The new birth is going from dead in sin and trespass to life everlasting in Christ Jesus.

Christ effects a complete change in us we do not change ourselves. We walk daily with Him by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

Those who profess biblical salvation by grace and as a gift of God do not promote living a sinful life. The more mature you become in Christ the more your sin is made plain to you and the more you strive to live closer to Christ.

The legalist strives to for themselves what only God can do. Man cannot live righteously in his own will, power and strength. Mans pride blocks him from receiving grace because he must first admit his need for Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger