i need help with this math problem
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here is the fragment papyrus 115,,,do you know the iota and eta?,,,some of us can read the common Greek,some of us cannot,,,but everyone in c.c. stake their very lives on the hope that you can,,,,,666?,,,
petert,ken,,,followed me iota and eta,,two of us know,,,i called them out, he understood and was silent..two
i said,,,"change the vowels",,,,and the response was immediate,,,,vowels?,,,and i knew,,,,,,,who knew,
K
kenisyes
Guest
In both these instances, flood is Hebrew "nahar", not "mobal". Noah's flood was a "mobal". Nahar refers to the fact that they both had to cross a river that was a spiritual boundary to them. Someone may have made an erroneous attempt to read the 600 into that, but I see no comparison. Another wrong start is that chi - iota is the Greek spelling of the Hebrew word for "living creature" in Rev. 5. Since the beast is a parody of the living creature, and 6 is the incompletion of 7, calling him "living creature incomplete" could make sense.
K
kenisyes
Guest
It's not eta. eta is long e, written like our H for capital, and like small n with an extended right side stroke, going below the line. This could be epsilon, which is written like a c with an extra middle line, like we write e. In my last post just now, I translated it as digamma. As written now, it is clearly no letter at all, but is part of digamma or epsilon. Liddell-Scott, the definitive Greek reference, lists only one word beginning with chi-iota-epsilon or chi-iota-eta. It is a misspelling of chi-iota-alpha-s-m-o-s, meaning to arrange diagonally.
in reference to 600 years old when Noah entered the ark,which is the meaning if chi irenieus gave (so we should look at that point in scripture) mankind the earth and creatures crossed both a carnal river(flood) and a spiritual river,that is after the flood god made a new covenant with them ch.9 of gen. in Joshua 24;3 Abraham's seed(Christ)thru Noah came from the other side(before the flood) and Christ did not cross a spiritual river (he was blameless) so then something we discussed in another post,(gan,pardis) and then see rev.20;2 "old serpent,satin,dragon",,then to rev.12; (the serpent,dragon) he was in heaven when the war began,,in gen.3;15 (head wounded unto death),,so the,serpent,man,and the woman were driven out of "gan",hence "there was found no more place in heaven and he was cast into the earth",,,"it shall bruise they head" so irenaeus states ah29 that they should remain 600.60.6,but then instead of explaining a mathematical equation he then begins to break them down into symbols and states "six hundred because" and points to Noah,,then "sixty and six" and points to the image in Daniel 3,,now rev.13;11-18, in the opinion of irenaeus was "calculated by looking here and looking there" that is before valens was born god knew him. we received a warning not to add to it or remove from it,john wrote this(from Christ)polycarp said this in his letter "firstborn of satin",,and irenaeus taught by polycarpus,taught by john taught by Christ understood this that it was to show you where to look for the math problem. men are flesh,they at times corrupt things by their own will,sometimes by scribal errors. god knowing this put this in other places where they were safe,follow the map 666.
I hope everyone still looking for the beast sees it soon, so we can get the number "666" out of our forehead and stop pointing at the page with our right hand finger!
Not directed at you guys in the thread, but to us as humans in general
Not directed at you guys in the thread, but to us as humans in general
K
kenisyes
Guest
Here is the text:
2. And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire. Fittingly, therefore, shall his name possess the number six hundred and sixty-six, since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels. For Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge came upon the earth, sweeping away the rebellious world, for the sake of that most infamous generation which lived in the times of Noah. And [Antichrist] also sums up every error of devised idols since the flood, together with the slaying of the prophets and the cutting off of the just. For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misaël, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man’s coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception; for which things’ sake a cataclysm of fire shall also come [upon the earth].
This is ah5:29.2.
I have thought of something simliar myself. 666 is one short of 777 in every one of the three numbers. The Beast is thus s imperfect as can be. The above quote is Iranaeus' opinion of why 666. I don't think it's the reason God put it in the Book of Revelation though, as it does not answer to the "number of man", as well as 666 would answer to many other theories that have been put forward. Also, no wisdom is needed to calculate it. Only the wisdom to explain it.
I spent a little time on if this could be an acronym. chi-iota-epsilon: christou iesou .... (,,,of Jesus Christ or ......by Jesus Christ). There are 758 words in Strong's beginning with epsilon, numbers 1436 through 2193. A godo one is 2190 echthros "enemy", a word sometimes used for Satan.
Look very closely just to the upper left corner of the chi. There is a slight backwards apostrophe like '. Now, it could be a slip of the pen, but this is how many languages indicate number.
Should we not be directing our attention to what Valentius saw in 616? It does not divide up like 666, there is little we can do with it along those lines. The best my Gematria reverse dictionary can come up with is "wrestlings". One can only guess what the written history of 666 might have been if people had been looking for 616.
yes you did say what "they",thought(valentinus,hippolytus,basiliges ect.),,tdzues,,"my saviour is Zeus",,,the lack of words to use from Hebrew to Greek,and still hold the same value. i think though they were confused at what they saw,that is they did not understand when he(man of sin rises),,"he will confess to be god",,that is the Christians who were deceived will say "Jesus is returned",,,the Jew will see "Messiah promised has come",,,the Muslim(Allah) ect,ect. it is no small work for a fallen angel,,,lead them to ww3,,time it around the earth shaking to and fro like a drunkard,earthquakes,the sun not shining and on the other side of(yellowstone) you return with your angels and tada!,every religion on the earth falls to their knees and worships god?the beast?,,and then sets up mill. temple in a place it "ought not be",,he stands in it and says,"i am god",there will come a day when they that slay you think the do a service to god,mother against child,brother against brother,,,the lord(serpent),wills say "where are they?",,and they will show them to him because they think they are saving them.the mirror image,"image of the beast",,is the image of god,that is the serpent will show man "everything he thinks he will see in the day of judgment",,,Christ spoke of this saying "if they say i am here believe it not,or he is in a desert place go not",,,you see "they",,,in that day believe he is come.now then lest the lord shorten these days all flesh shall perish,even the very elect but the end will not come lest the man of sin reviled,,,,,,and then the lord will come,,,,first 666,,,,,,,,then777,,,
they cannot count it they are afraid,they do not see the serpent comes in the name of the lord,,,
K
kenisyes
Guest
So I think you're saying that these folks did not understand what Jesus really meant in God's plan for history, so they were too fearful to address what 666 might mean. As a result, they started changing the number around. That makes perfect sense. But is that sufficient answer to the question of why they chose to make it chi-iota, and the mark that is maybe epsilon, maybe digamma, with the line above it and the little maybe apostrophe? Wasn't that the original question? Is this expression simply a random choice? Is it some Freudian slip betraying their fear?
i just realized what you were asking,,"they" who i was referring to was not anyone on cc.,,, "they" whom i am speaking of is "theodotus,hippolytus,tatian,ect.",to me if you are asking mine own opinion,,"mine that is",Christ said he had a name that except for whom he gave it no one knew,,(bear in mind every son is called after his father's name)he told us he would give you a new name and write it on a stone,he told us he would write his fathers name in our forehead.we are sealed with the mark(name,stigma) of god in our forehead.there is a husband and he invites us to the wedding,ten virgins,some do but some do not come. and there is the marriage.lets remember,the son is named after the father,and the bride is called after the groom.,,,but i am a man,and my name is not iamsoandso, that is when he became the groom and i the bride.now my name is mine husbands,and his is his fathers open the book of life,i was afraid at first,iamsoandso was not in it. but then i saw the name in it and it was my husbands father and then i was not afraid.and that man of sin,my husband spoke of he said "i come in my fathers name and you receive me not,if another come in his own name you will receive him",but blasphemy,is to say you are god.now he(the man of sin) will not(spirit of antichrist),tell you he is "not Christ",,he will not tell you there is another that is the Messiah,you see he cannot. so he will come and tell you he is my husband,he will say "come to me my love i am Jesus your husband". though he may try to trick me and say he is my husband,he does not smell like my husband,he is not the one who loved me. he will not say he is named Fred,,he will tell you he is your husband."they",,,616,,were pulling their hair out looking at this,they went out from us to show they were not of us.and a strong delusion fell on them as to have them believe a lie.so they set down to make it say anything else but what it said.
ken these manuscripts, were found in baskets and put in the "dump" on the outskirts of the city of oxyrhynchus,Egypt. they were water deteriorated and at first not able to be read. at oxford unv. they developed(borrowed) a method to use infrared light to illuminate the entire letter,the resistance of where the ink used to be,that is it did not penetrate the papyrus paper as much as the rest.(you i think knew this), the x,chi below it in the text does look different as what you point out,that is chi where the arrow is pointing looks different than the one below it in another word.,,,,it took me a while x with digamma added=a number,,but nomina sacra above it still means to abbreviate so then six hundred to a power? so hence 6000 as stated by irenaeus and then abbreviated?...but why abbreviate?,,,there's where took the most thought,,,"they",the gnostic s(knowledge)believed that "within the inner circle",,there was knowledge passed by word of mouth to each of them.so hence "the abbreviations=different level of understanding" which may explain both digamma and chi,with nomina sacra above it..that is to them in their way of thinking a possible explanation. i.e.Sophia,aeon,ect,we need to think like them to understand what they were writing.also the stigma,is of the three phases where it evolved into looking more like a "c",which should give us a better date of the writing,later it had the hook at the bottom so second century or before i think. that is there are capital and lower letters,so the text is right for 1st.-2nd cen.ad,,,but i still have some other questions,one is Irenaeus said i believe in ah one?where he spoke about the aeons?,,,,,"these so called commentaries,i have read",,,,so look back at "papyrus 115",,,there are two are three large chunks and then small pieces,,so "i searched the www",,there are copies of the rev. with 616,i.e.codex c,textus receptus,bynzentine text,codex epheaemi,ect.(i know some are from the other),but not to get off the point "is this one of the commentaries irenaeus spoke of or is it a copy of the rev. with a scribal error?",,you see this would change every thing we are thinking.,,,you see we know there are both things that existed by testimony of the church fathers both commentaries and copies(of the autograph) of the revalation of john.,,,"NoY",above 616, i have also researched as you did the other "name",too short to abbreviate,,,,,but "number",but then again i have found nothing Greek to abbreviate,,,"NoY" except that the first and last are "higher case",,and the middle "lower",,,now in (common) greek there was both styles one all in "capital" and the other in both,,,,,this clearly is written using both(should give us direction to the pronunciation marks implied),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i spent some time reading back through our post,,,,"i am one horrible,typist am i not?",,,,i saw you said,"not to disprove you",,,,,that is not what i meant at all "papyrus 115",,,,pick it apart,,that's what i thought i said,,,"it",,not my thinking,,,,,,,,,and then if i am wrong,,me too. i want to just know also,,lick my wounds if i must,,never the less though i want to know it.,,,i am a horrible typist,my mind tells my fingers and they are ten minds arguing,,i should apologize to every other one of you,,,i mean no offense to any of you if i seem blunt,,i am in the midst of loving you all (here in cc),,,
i only have 4 minute left and then its not my turn on the computer,,,,,good night sweet dreams i will see you tomorrow,,,
K
kenisyes
Guest
I did not realize these had been "developed" by infrared light. I hesitate to think what that might alone have meant for us. Let's try this: The six visible lines transliterate (I think)
1. Ranoy
2. H XIc
3. TooP
4. EXoYCa
5. YTOYTE
6. TONKAI
2. is the number of the beast that we are starting with.
3. is to oros, the 8th and 9th words of 14:1 in our Bible
4. is echousai, the 18th word of vs. 1
6. is auton kai, last word of vs 2 and first of vs. 3.
By counting letters and words, I should be able to locate 5, but I cannot. Also, why is there an H before the number of the beast? It should be Y. Better yet, note what the sigma in echousai looks like; it looks like the digamma, because the top did not come out. I have no hope of locating 1., if it some kind of change from the original. I recognize it as part of the word ouranou, heavenly.
We need to ask ourselves, how correct is the infrared at showing us the writer's intention? Maybe he had variable pen tension, and letters, like the sigma, are coming out half formed. Maybe the line over the 616 goes over the H as well. Can you identify any more words?
1. Ranoy
2. H XIc
3. TooP
4. EXoYCa
5. YTOYTE
6. TONKAI
2. is the number of the beast that we are starting with.
3. is to oros, the 8th and 9th words of 14:1 in our Bible
4. is echousai, the 18th word of vs. 1
6. is auton kai, last word of vs 2 and first of vs. 3.
By counting letters and words, I should be able to locate 5, but I cannot. Also, why is there an H before the number of the beast? It should be Y. Better yet, note what the sigma in echousai looks like; it looks like the digamma, because the top did not come out. I have no hope of locating 1., if it some kind of change from the original. I recognize it as part of the word ouranou, heavenly.
We need to ask ourselves, how correct is the infrared at showing us the writer's intention? Maybe he had variable pen tension, and letters, like the sigma, are coming out half formed. Maybe the line over the 616 goes over the H as well. Can you identify any more words?
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No, i started to consider that you had the solution to the problem you asked for help with.
,,,exactly now you are on the correct path.,,,,but me and you are not yet seeing the same thing,that is i said "iota eta",then you replied and said "no its not eta",,,then i sad "gan"ect.ect,,,and it seemed off base again,,,,you had the post before it posted "this is the whole text" and gave it,,,but at the end you said "then should we not be discussing valentinus?",,,so i thought we were at that time thinking the same. so let us regroup,,,you are only looking at a.h.bk.5.29,,,,,,,so far from the beginning of the post till now i have quoted text to you from a.h.bk 1 chapters 1,2,3,,,,and a.h.bk.5.29,,,and the letter to the phillipians by polycarp,,,go to a.h.bk 1 and review ch.1,2,3, and then you will understand why i am saying things that in one post seem correct and the next not.,,,,in a.h.ch.3.2.9 "iota eta",,and then look back at what you are "translating" and you will see why they changed these,,,,
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/papyri/vol66/150dpi/pls7-8bk.jpg,,,,,,,,,now then the "iota,,a.h.chapter 3.2.9" was changed on purpose,,,the eta is the "higher case eta",,which is "proceeding" i.e. in your list row #2 =,,"eta,chi,iota,stigma" eta is strong's 706 and 142,,"arithmos" but notice they the gnostics also as irenaeus states they changed "both",,,,your greek is way better than mine "im a kinder gardener",,if you notice looking at the writing each time the writer picks up his pen,and after he dips it then set's it back down "where he puts it down makes a circular mark,right where he sets it down",but when he picks it up(the pen is drying out)and it leaves a fine line(hard to see) but it looks to me as if over "eta" line two the pen was drying out and so the infrared barely shows the "RaNoY",,he sets the pen down above"aleph?" when he put the nomina sacra,,but he wrote the word first,,when he made the N shape he set the pen down,went up,down and to the right,picked the pen up set it down and went down to make the letter "nu".i put a link at the top(i think),,there are 12 pieces of papyrus 115 i ceep looking at "noy"as i call it he repeats it in other words in the same text but this is the only place where he uses nomina sacra,so given his religion i suppose he is denoting "higher level of knowledge" with nomina sacra.