If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

[UnitedWithChrist]

The BIBLE says that Abraham Kept HIS Commandments & laws, SO yes the commandments was before Sinai. Abraham was about , 400 years before Moses, God told Cain that sin lieth at the door, Which means they had the commandments, You haft to have LAWS before you can sin. You say that they was not Good, JESUS SAYS that we are not GOOD ether, GOD bless as HE sees fit. None is good but the FATHER

If you can show one incident of humans keeping the Sabbath prior to Moses, then you might have a point.

You can't, though.

There's no place where it says that any human kept the Sabbath prior to God's dealings with Israel after the Exodus.

And, even if you could prove that, you would need to use the same logic with regards to festivals. In my opinion, the case for festivals is much easier to make, if a person wanted to claim they are still applicable due to continuity.

That's why the SDA position concerning the Sabbath is worse than Armstrongism, in my opinion, because they aren't being consistent in their reasoning. I reject Armstrongism, too, but SDA reasoning is much less consistent.

 

[Grandpa]

His LAWS Is HIS CHATACTER, When Moses ask to look upon HIM, JESUS give Moses His Laws to show Moses what HE was LIKE. JESUS says IF you love ME keep MY commandments, Then Another place , JESUS says If you say that you love ME and keep not MY commandments ,You are lier and the TRUTH is not in you. So if we are not keeping JESUS's commandments, The truth is not in us, And truth is JESUS. So if you are not keeping HIS commandments, JESUS IS NOT in YOU, FOR JESUS IS THE TRUTH.

The Law is condemnation and death to those who work at them.

The Lord Jesus is Righteousness and Life for those who come to Him and abide in the Vine.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[bud62]

No Ten Commandments before sinai

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

What Laws did Abraham keep according to direct quotes from scripture defining them?

I only know of one set of Commandments, And they are the ones that JESUS wrote with HIS finger.
JESUS wrote them in stone the first time, Now HE writes them on our HEARTS,THE SAME ten COMMANDMENTS,GOD is not GOING to Change HIS LAWS that HE wrote with HIS Finger,
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter, Fear GOD, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[Blik]

The Law is condemnation and death to those who work at them.

The Lord Jesus is Righteousness and Life for those who come to Him and abide in the Vine.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

You are distorting the law by giving it only one characteristic of the many of the truth of the law.

A good loving father disciplines his children. Would you say the word father means punishment?

 

[bud62]

The Law is condemnation and death to those who work at them.

The Lord Jesus is Righteousness and Life for those who come to Him and abide in the Vine.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

You are distorting the law by giving it only one characteristic of the many of the truth of the law.

A good loving father disciplines his children. Would you say the word father means punishment?

To keep GODs laws is not a punish, His LAWS ARE JUSTICES FOR ALL.

 

[Blade]

Where did you get "in heaven"? There is no time in heaven. This "day/night" is a time bubble so to speak. The SUN/MOON will be gone and only HE is the light. No more night.

 

[JaumeJ]

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[Dave-L]

I only know of one set of Commandments, And they are the ones that JESUS wrote with HIS finger.
JESUS wrote them in stone the first time, Now HE writes them on our HEARTS,THE SAME ten COMMANDMENTS,GOD is not GOING to Change HIS LAWS that HE wrote with HIS Finger,
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter, Fear GOD, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.

How did Jesus keep the commandments? He lived the Sermon on the Mount. You are not keeping them above the level of any Pharisee unless you do it his way.

 

[JaumeJ]

How did Jesus keep the commandments? He lived the Sermon on the Mount. You are not keeping them above the level of any Pharisee unless you do it his way.

It is directly in front of the people yet they cannot seeit. Of course we keep the commandments and the law His Way, yet that veil of Moses is in effect for most, especially those who thnk they are living in grace without having the common decency to obey God, incredible yet true.

 

[Grandpa]

You are distorting the law by giving it only one characteristic of the many of the truth of the law.

A good loving father disciplines his children. Would you say the word father means punishment?

If the law is a spiritual law, and yet you try to work at it carnally in your own understanding and strength you will constantly fail.

That is why your Righteousness can never come from your work.

Your Righteousness only comes from Trusting in Christ.


That is the job of the Law. To make you understand that.

1 Corinthians 1:23-24
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[bud62]

How did Jesus keep the commandments? He lived the Sermon on the Mount. You are not keeping them above the level of any Pharisee unless you do it his way.

If the law is a spiritual law, and yet you try to work at it carnally in your own understanding and strength you will constantly fail.

That is why your Righteousness can never come from your work.

Your Righteousness only comes from Trusting in Christ.


That is the job of the Law. To make you understand that.

1 Corinthians 1:23-24
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Sin is braking GODs laws, If GOD finds us SINNERS when HE comes, The wages of sin is death,
4 if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
GOD is not GOING to lie for ME or you. If HE comes on US as a thief, AND we are comitting SIN, AND we know it, WE will be LOST,
GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[garee]

If you can show one incident of humans keeping the Sabbath prior to Moses, then you might have a point.

You can't, though.

There's no place where it says that any human kept the Sabbath prior to God's dealings with Israel after the Exodus.

And, even if you could prove that, you would need to use the same logic with regards to festivals. In my opinion, the case for festivals is much easier to make, if a person wanted to claim they are still applicable due to continuity.

That's why the SDA position concerning the Sabbath is worse than Armstrongism, in my opinion, because they aren't being consistent in their reasoning. I reject Armstrongism, too, but SDA reasoning is much less consistent.

The sabbath rest has been in effect from the 7th day . Abel who mixed faith (the eternal unseen) in what he heard and saw enjoyed it. Cain refused to believe and rest in it .

A ceremonial rest as a shadow does not make the word rest/sabbath time sensitive.

In the second rendering of the ten commandments .Rather that using the 7th day .The reasoning was the departure from Egypt. It was in the wilderness when God gave them over to do that which they should not of . . .wanting to return to slavery and no rest.

That the ceremony was to be applied until they reached the promised land of fruit and honey which had been prepared beforehand for the murmurers. It would seem the tradition carried on .

Today three meals under the new manner (1 Corihtinans 11) can be eaten on the new era of sabbaths the first day of the week. The day he said let there be children of light .

And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan. Exodus 16 :35

Where are the instructions as to when manna got replaced with bread.?Or when did bread a a metaphor change into manna?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The sabbath rest has been in effect from the 7th day . Abel who mixed faith (the eternal unseen) in what he heard and saw enjoyed it. Cain refused to believe and rest in it .

A ceremonial rest as a shadow does not make the word rest/sabbath time sensitive.

In the second rendering of the ten commandments .Rather that using the 7th day .The reasoning was the departure from Egypt. It was in the wilderness when God gave them over to do that which they should not of . . .wanting to return to slavery and no rest.

That the ceremony was to be applied until they reached the promised land of fruit and honey which had been prepared beforehand for the murmurers. It would seem the tradition carried on .

Today three meals under the new manner (1 Corihtinans 11) can be eaten on the new era of sabbaths the first day of the week. The day he said let there be children of light .

And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan. Exodus 16 :35

Where are the instructions as to when manna got replaced with bread.?Or when did bread a a metaphor change into manna?

I'm not sure concerning your logic, but the creation account doesn't record man and woman observing the Sabbath.

They didn't work, therefore they didn't need to rest. God worked and God ceased his work.

The Sabbath isn't mentioned at all in Genesis 2. God "ceased"...that is mentioned.

In fact, I believe God works every single day..and the Jews knew this too..that is why they were shocked at Jesus' words in John 5. They knew he was claiming to be God when he said that he and his Father are continually working.

 

[JaumeJ]

The sabbath rest has been in effect from the 7th day . Abel who mixed faith (the eternal unseen) in what he heard and saw enjoyed it. Cain refused to believe and rest in it .

A ceremonial rest as a shadow does not make the word rest/sabbath time sensitive.

In the second rendering of the ten commandments .Rather that using the 7th day .The reasoning was the departure from Egypt. It was in the wilderness when God gave them over to do that which they should not of . . .wanting to return to slavery and no rest.

That the ceremony was to be applied until they reached the promised land of fruit and honey which had been prepared beforehand for the murmurers. It would seem the tradition carried on .

Today three meals under the new manner (1 Corihtinans 11) can be eaten on the new era of sabbaths the first day of the week. The day he said let there be children of light .

And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan. Exodus 16 :35

Where are the instructions as to when manna got replaced with bread.?Or when did bread a a metaphor change into manna?

From Adm to Noah there was oral tradition which was followed according to the knowledge of the creation, long before the law. From Noah to Moses there was also oral tradition, with the commandments known within. It is a matter of faith in those things unseen which confirms for me and all who believe Jesus, Yeshua, that these things were known. Also, if you need written evidence, read Genesis, the commandments are there.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

From Adm to Noah there was oral tradition which was followed according to the knowledge of the creation, long before the law. From Noah to Moses there was also oral tradition, with the commandments known within. It is a matter of faith in those things unseen which confirms for me and all who believe Jesus, Yeshua, that these things were known. Also, if you need written evidence, read Genesis, the commandments are there.

Ah ok..you buy into the oral tradition claim of Judaism?

I don't.

Somehow, the Jews of Josiah's day no longer had an understanding of the WRITTEN LAW, until a copy was found in the Temple. I don't believe there was an oral tradition alongside the written word..and if there was, it wouldn't mean much to me.

Scripture warns against paying attention to Jewish fables. I don't consider works such as Josephus' to be reliable, either. He was known to exaggerate, and I'm pretty sure other Jewish sources did the same thing.

I am Sola Scriptura man

 

[JesusLives]

If you can show one incident of humans keeping the Sabbath prior to Moses, then you might have a point.

You can't, though.

There's no place where it says that any human kept the Sabbath prior to God's dealings with Israel after the Exodus.

And, even if you could prove that, you would need to use the same logic with regards to festivals. In my opinion, the case for festivals is much easier to make, if a person wanted to claim they are still applicable due to continuity.

That's why the SDA position concerning the Sabbath is worse than Armstrongism, in my opinion, because they aren't being consistent in their reasoning. I reject Armstrongism, too, but SDA reasoning is much less consistent.

Genesis 2:
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


sanc·ti·fy
/ˈsaNG(k)təˌfī/
verb
past tense: sanctified; past participle: sanctified

1. set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.
   
   
   
   Ok.... so are you saying that the first 7th day that God rested and set apart as holy at the end of creation means nothing to anyone and that Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden all by themselves while God rested on a day that He sanctified and made holy all by Himself and didn't include Adam and Eve in that day of rest?

That just maybe God explained to them as the tended the garden and looked after the animals for six days a week that He gave them a day to come apart and spend extra time with Him? Of course in the Garden of Eden they could talk to God when ever He came to the garden because it does say that He was in the garden calling to Adam and Eve when they were hiding after they had sinned. So we do know that God came to visit.

We also know that God really does not need to rest but that he was setting up a system to help man rest knowing that there would be a six day work week that God set up with the creation example and God knowing that Adam and Eve would sin in the future would need a day to come and spend time with Him not worrying about having to work that particular day because God knows everything and could see the future.

The language in Genesis 1 & 2 sets up the reason why the wording of the 4th commandment go together because all you have to do is read it and see the connection between the origin of man and why God set up a Sabbath day of rest as worded and connected to creation in the 4th commandment.

Exodus 20:
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Pure logic would suggest that yes, Adam and Eve celebrated the first 7th rest day with God in the Garden and we would also have to assume that God verbally told them the rules to His government because Cain knew he had done wrong when he murdered Able.

Just because something wasn't written down at the beginning doesn't mean it didn't exist as many things passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth and in my logical mind I can see God telling them what He expected of them in the garden.

 

[JesusLives]

Ah ok..you buy into the oral tradition claim of Judaism?

I don't.

Somehow, the Jews of Josiah's day no longer had an understanding of the WRITTEN LAW, until a copy was found in the Temple. I don't believe there was an oral tradition alongside the written word..and if there was, it wouldn't mean much to me.

Scripture warns against paying attention to Jewish fables. I don't consider works such as Josephus' to be reliable, either. He was known to exaggerate, and I'm pretty sure other Jewish sources did the same thing.

I am Sola Scriptura man

Then you would have had a hard time in the Garden of Eden with no books or libraries available....

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Then you would have had a hard time in the Garden of Eden with no books or libraries available....

Who said that the accounts were oral?

They could have been written down.

I don't deny the possibility that there were additional documents used to compile this account, or God could have provided the accounts to Moses for his inclusion in the Torah.

I think you're making some assumptions that I don't make.

 

[JesusLives]

Who said that the accounts were oral?

They could have been written down.

I don't deny the possibility that there were additional documents used to compile this account, or God could have provided the accounts to Moses for his inclusion in the Torah.

I think you're making some assumptions that I don't make.

With a stick in the dirt unless of course they had IPads...

God did write His law down with His finger in stone but no one pays attention any more.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Genesis 2:
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


sanc·ti·fy
/ˈsaNG(k)təˌfī/
verb
past tense: sanctified; past participle: sanctified

1. set apart as or declare holy; consecrate.
   
   
   
   Ok.... so are you saying that the first 7th day that God rested and set apart as holy at the end of creation means nothing to anyone and that Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden all by themselves while God rested on a day that He sanctified and made holy all by Himself and didn't include Adam and Eve in that day of rest?

That just maybe God explained to them as the tended the garden and looked after the animals for six days a week that He gave them a day to come apart and spend extra time with Him? Of course in the Garden of Eden they could talk to God when ever He came to the garden because it does say that He was in the garden calling to Adam and Eve when they were hiding after they had sinned. So we do know that God came to visit.

We also know that God really does not need to rest but that he was setting up a system to help man rest knowing that there would be a six day work week that God set up with the creation example and God knowing that Adam and Eve would sin in the future would need a day to come and spend time with Him not worrying about having to work that particular day because God knows everything and could see the future.

The language in Genesis 1 & 2 sets up the reason why the wording of the 4th commandment go together because all you have to do is read it and see the connection between the origin of man and why God set up a Sabbath day of rest as worded and connected to creation in the 4th commandment.

Exodus 20:
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Pure logic would suggest that yes, Adam and Eve celebrated the first 7th rest day with God in the Garden and we would also have to assume that God verbally told them the rules to His government because Cain knew he had done wrong when he murdered Able.

Just because something wasn't written down at the beginning doesn't mean it didn't exist as many things passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth and in my logical mind I can see God telling them what He expected of them in the garden.

The word "sabbath" is not used in the Genesis creation account and does not show up until God began to work with ancient Israel.

So, you are arguing from silence.

Additionally, Adam and Eve did not work in the first week. God worked, but they did not.

My position on the Sabbath is that God meant mankind to "rest" continually, and that the Sabbath rest would never have ended if Adam and Eve had not sinned. In other words, humans would dwell perpetually in the seventh day. However, sin came into the equation and the perfect world, full of shalom (peace) ended.

The Sabbath for ancient Israel reminded them of the state of shalom (peace) that existed in the Garden of Eden. It was an oasis that reminded them of both the curse (the six days of labor) and the release from the curse (the one day of rest). It also reminded them of their slavery to Egypt. In Egypt, they were never allowed to rest, but after coming under God's governance, they were allowed to rest one day a week, while they labored the other six days. The six days of labor reminded them of Egypt, and the seventh day of rest reminded them that they were liberated to enjoy an oasis of rest.

The six days of labor/one day of rest cycle should remind the Christian that their previous lifestyle involved a heavy toil of sin, and the one day of rest points toward God's liberation in Christ. The believer is in Christ, and Christ is his spiritual Sabbath.

Again, though, I would fall back on Colossians 2:16-17 and the fact that Sabbath, festivals, and New Moons are not applicable to the believer. I realize that the SDA claims that only the weekly Sabbath continues to apply. Of course they would claim that, else their false system would be exposed. They have spent all kinds of time developing explanations of Colossians 2:16-17 in order to exclude the weekly Sabbath. But, those explanations don't hold water.

I would suggest that any concerned folks read Dale Ratzlaff's book "Sabbath in Christ". He covers this in detail.