In relation to the new testament, why would Jesus believe this did not apply?

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Sometimes expectations are what stops us from moving beyond our issues. We should move beyond these things and get to the root of the issue in my opinion.

This is the root of the issue in my opinion.

Jesus says it Himself, that the scripture speaks of Him. The OT. So if you don't see Him all over it, you don't understand it correctly. How can you talk about what you don't understand, then? It is the Spirit that opens up the Word in our minds and heart, and if you don't believe Christ, you don't have the Spirit.
 
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Wasn't he the lead Angel in a rebellion? God allowed satan to stay here until the last day to try us. I see Jesus as a man who was blessed with the Christ of God. He had a connection with God through mediation and prayer.


Jesus was both and and God,He is the same God today. He didn't have a connection with God,He was and is God.
 
I agree victory belongs to the Lord our God who is the father of creation including Jesus. There are no partners to the Creator. Consider that while you stand and look out into the world, God is in you and each person you see. Each person is God's manifestation, proof of His existence. To claim Jesus was God claims God was not in any other living being.


​Jesus is God,period,end of story.
 
UndoubtingThomas that is an interesting nickname because it is Thomas who said to our Lord Jesus:

John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
 
The issue with these ideas is that the Christ of God does not die and Deut: 24:16 which denies one man from dying for another man's sins. When we die, our spirit returns to God. The resurrection was a demonstration for us.

1 Corinthians 3:16Verse Concepts

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?



Christ of God,wasn't this term thrown around by a banned member? Hmmm.
 
All sins have been atoned for through the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ upon the cross of Golgotha due to His great and everlasting love for us. Are you covered by His righteous blood? If not, your name shall be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life, and following the resurrection and judgement of all, if you are not covered by grace through faith in His propitiatory sacrifice, you shall pass into the second death. What prevents men from believing this? Pride. Man's pride is his greatest folly from the time of Adam until now.

Perspective is a means of perceiving the world. We can both have different perspectives about the world and they can both be true. For example. Looking at the number 9 from at least one point of view and it will look like a 6. The question is, is it worth dying for? Should we commit crimes against one another for an answer no one can know? This may be a voice of reason to those who claim to know the way. To me, there is proof enough that God forbid murder. Add to this, that the Law forbids a man from dying for another's sins and that He forbid any changes to the Law and using these one could argue to God that there was a reason to not follow Jesus. This is why I have asked the question. Can anyone contradict this point of view with Law?
 
Perspective is a means of perceiving the world. We can both have different perspectives about the world and they can both be true. For example. Looking at the number 9 from at least one point of view and it will look like a 6. The question is, is it worth dying for? Should we commit crimes against one another for an answer no one can know? This may be a voice of reason to those who claim to know the way. To me, there is proof enough that God forbid murder. Add to this, that the Law forbids a man from dying for another's sins and that He forbid any changes to the Law and using these one could argue to God that there was a reason to not follow Jesus. This is why I have asked the question. Can anyone contradict this point of view with Law?

No,what you're saying is all truth is relative and nothing is absolute.I can believe I can fly from a 10 story building,the absolute truth is Im going to be dead upon landing. You can know the truth,it is absolute. A nine may look like a six,but the absolute truth is its one or the other,it cannot be both.Truth is not relative. God is the Creator,Jesus became a man,saved us from sin and went back to heaven. He will save if we believe in Him. You're complicating the truth with a lot of fluff and nonsense.
 
This is the root of the issue in my opinion.

Jesus says it Himself, that the scripture speaks of Him. The OT. So if you don't see Him all over it, you don't understand it correctly. How can you talk about what you don't understand, then? It is the Spirit that opens up the Word in our minds and heart, and if you don't believe Christ, you don't have the Spirit.

Understanding comes from God and if there is lack of it, it is a question for God. Christ to me is not a person but a connection to God given to whom God Wills. There are many who according to scripture spoke words attributed to God but the only ones known for sure are the words given to the nation while God was with them. I do believe the Christ of God is God just as light that shines through a window belongs to the light of the sun.
 
Perspective is a means of perceiving the world. We can both have different perspectives about the world and they can both be true. For example. Looking at the number 9 from at least one point of view and it will look like a 6. The question is, is it worth dying for? Should we commit crimes against one another for an answer no one can know? This may be a voice of reason to those who claim to know the way. To me, there is proof enough that God forbid murder. Add to this, that the Law forbids a man from dying for another's sins and that He forbid any changes to the Law and using these one could argue to God that there was a reason to not follow Jesus. This is why I have asked the question. Can anyone contradict this point of view with Law?

1 Men living in this perishable world will never be able to avoid sin , so sin is inevitability.
So His people living in this world should be saved---> figured such; there were sacrifice lamb, the priest , the men that were sanctified .
2 For our sake , to understand that Salvation is by God’s Grace alone , then God says that actually men need the savior , men need the redeemer and He is only God ( Isa 43:3 , 43:11 ,47:4 ,49:26 , 60:16 ) (Salvation should come from Him no one else can do).
3 Men were given time to verify themselves , were they really spiritually dead creatures that from their own will they would never be able to do anything that was worthy in the eyes of God ?( Isa64:6 ) , and it was proven that no men realized about it even the time given since OT ( and this is also the reason why should the redeemer come to us 2.000 years ago, why not since Noah, Abraham, Mosses ) .
4 the saves also figured as one who resurrect from dead.
5 when the time given to the men for verifying their spiritually dead was over , so God should transform to be the Messiah for manifesting the God’s Grace , that by then men understood “ Salvation is by God’s Grace alone “.

So the task for the Messiah / the Savior/ the Redeemer are point 1 and 4 above.


Summary; "Men ,You will never save yourself or others whatever effort you may try, cause the salvation is only by God’s grace (Eph2:8) , that is what I want to demonstrate to you, I will be killed and three days later I shall resurrect from dead that you may know : the sacrifice blood is my blood = God blood , the priest is me as manifestation of God, the man who is sanctified will be acted by Me that shows you if the salvation is only for the chosen ( not man who says want , but only he or she whom the heart is made to want /written in the book of life before the creation of the world /the spirits which were sent by God from eternal realm to this perishable realm for wandering/sojourning) , then by this event comes to pass you will understand that the salvation is only by God’s Grace, and you that believe (believe if this event is really manifestation of God’s grace ) is the winner you shall be resurrected too in the last day, and you that don’t believe you are the loser cause you will surely say that I am not God Himself , and consider Me as a created being as you are , then if I am a created being surely I am spiritually dead too as you are then I shall reach My salvation too by this event( through this event I shall pay my own sins) means this event surely not a manifestation of God’s Grace or there is no premise “salvation is only by God’s Grace “ and every one shall pay their sins by their own effort , then why can’t you fulfill the Torah laws? , why am I said savoir? (Luk2:11), why am I said Redeemer? (Eph1:7), you that don’t believe you are really a loser certainly you are walking to the lof “.


Isa43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee


Isa43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior


Isa47:4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel


Isa63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.


Rev1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood


Rev5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation




Luk2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord


Eph1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;


Hence by His demonstration from that day men began to know that the salvation is only by God Grace by this understanding means men can bring glory to God.
 
Jesus said, "All manner of sin shall be forgiven unto man except rejecting the Holy Ghost." Jesus took our blame away. This is why the sins of the Fathers are no longer visited on the children and everyone must give account of themselves to God.
 
It did not apply to Jesus because Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. So Jesus is not a man therefore Jesus can pay for the sins of all mankind because he is not a man. He had no sin..

I agree. Further proof that God may have been with him as God is with us all but he was not God in entirety. If he had been God, how could others walk upon the earth with him? Who was creating the scenery and manifesting each day?

Woe! All kinds of heresy going on this thread, about who Christ is.

Docetism. Adstar says Jesus is God "manifested" in the flesh, but then says twice "Jesus is NOT a man!" So what does manifest mean?

Arianism. Thomas says that God couldn't walk on the earth, because the whole world would fall apart at the seams.


"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16 For in him all things were created:things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." Col. 1:15-17

So, Jesus holds everything together. As in, all things - in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, Thrones, powers, rulers, authorities! Yep! Jesus did it all! How could he do this if he was only a man? Well, he was God! But he was also fully a man. Two natures, in one!

"For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted." Hebrews 2:17-18

Sorry you are not able to understand this, just that it is true!

If your stumbling block is that God is one, and therefore cannot be three, let's take a look at the Hebrew.

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." Deut. 6:4

The essential error here, is that the word "one" or echad, in Hebrew, here does NOT mean single unit. It means "one in unity." So elsewhere in the OT, we find ONE bunch of grapes. In this case, many grapes together make a unity of one.

I'm happy I've taken up Hebrew again! So much just doesn't come through in translation, that is essential to understand God, and who Jesus is. That is why, Thomas you are having such great difficulty with understanding who Jesus is! He is both God and man.

You need to understand who God is, in order to be saved! I pray God will open your mind to the truth!

 
Doesn't this go against the idea that God shouldn't need to prove anything to us? Could God not have protected Jesus from harm?

God protecting Jesus from Harm ??? Jesus is God.. Jesus and God are one.. The mission of Jesus while on earth was to be a sacrafice to obtain atonement for the sins of all whom would believe Him and trust in his Word.. Jesus is the Word of God ..

Part of the mission of Jesus on earth was to be harmed....
 
Docetism. Adstar says Jesus is God "manifested" in the flesh, but then says twice "Jesus is NOT a man!" So what does manifest mean?


You have not understood what i was meaning to say.. I was meaning to say that Jesus was not a mere man like us with fallen human natures and this is why Jesus never sinned.. While Jesus existed for a time in a flesh human body He was not just a man .. He was God manifesed in the flesh and thius is why His Atonement pays for the sins of many.. He was a pure sacrafice..
 
Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Is this to say that no man will experience death unless it is to pay for his own sin?


What is is the connection from your titles thread to the verse?
 
Understanding comes from God and if there is lack of it, it is a question for God. Christ to me is not a person but a connection to God given to whom God Wills. There are many who according to scripture spoke words attributed to God but the only ones known for sure are the words given to the nation while God was with them. I do believe the Christ of God is God just as light that shines through a window belongs to the light of the sun.

John 12


44Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.






o ye of little Faith
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It did not apply to Jesus because Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. So Jesus is not a man therefore Jesus can pay for the sins of all mankind because he is not a man. He had no sin..


I understand you thinking on this, but there is a better way. Y-shua is the G-d/Man. 100% G-d and 100%Man. G-d did step out of heaven in the form of a man, yet, as G-d and all of His ominies… He remained G-d while being 100% man on earth. How is this possible? Well, He is G-d!!!!!

He had to become man to make atonement for our sin. Which is so wonderful for us because our G-d is 100% man He gets being human, yet 100% G-d He can do something about it. See, the Torah (Law) teaches us on many occasions G-d stepped out of heaven yet He still did His G-d thing in Heaven, look at Joshua for example. And the New Testament shows us for we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin.

Y-shua is just simply the Lamb.
 
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