Independent Women

[Snackersmom]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

 

[Adstar]

Men like to be NEEDED.. Once a man knows a woman needs Him that will make the relationship more secure in the Long Term in his mind.. A woman stating that she does not need a man will automatically turn off any interest in her that a man hearing that statement may have had.. Thus that man will not be pursuing a relationship with that woman..

In a mans mind being WANTED points to a short term situation.. Because wants come and go but NEEDS tend to persist..

Men as far as my personal experience goes ( my talks with other men on the issue) are not put off by a woman who works and pays their own bills and deals with her own problems.. In fact most men that i know do not like excessively needy woman who are incompetent.. But once a woman describes herself as ''Independent" that is the same as saying they do not need a man and as i said in the first paragraph most men will automatically no longer see that woman as a marriage prospect..

Oh and please be soft and kind to me.. Since i have been brave enough to walk into this minefield of a question and risked being figuratively stoned to death by the sisterhood collective..

 

[Snackersmom]

Oh and please be soft and kind to me.. Since i have been brave enough to walk into this minefield of a question and risked being figuratively stoned to death by the sisterhood collective..

Lol y'all ladies be nice to Adstar and any other guy brave enough to post in this thread...... I really am legit confused by this issue and all perspectives are appreciated!

Soooo.... if a lady is paying her own bills and solving her own problems, does that mean the "need" would be on an emotional level? It seems like so much more of a compliment to want a guy rather than need him..... like, "need" implies that you are wanting him for selfish reasons, but "want" implies that you value a guy simply for who he is, and you enjoy his company.... like, you want to spend time with him simply because you enjoy spending time with him. I do not want to be needed, but if I'm going to date a guy I do need to be wanted. It almost seems like it would be manipulative to tell someone you "need" them.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way.

Although I have never personally referred to independent women in such a way, I might be able to offer some perspective on this topic.

They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

If it is "Christian" men who are saying such things about Christian women, then I would first and foremost question their knowledge of the word.

1Co 7:34
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
1Co 7:35
And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

There is nothing wrong with a Christian woman desiring to remain unmarried. If nothing else, being single makes it a lot easier for her to attend unto the Lord without distraction.

Furthermore, maybe I am being too simplistic, but "independent" simply means "not dependent upon somebody else." I mean, if a woman is single, then ought she not be "independent" by nature in that she has "nobody else to depend upon" but herself? It seems to me that men who talk that way are somehow threatened by women who can think and fend for themselves, and that they might be looking more for a servant than a wife.

That said, there are definitely women who take "independence" way too far. There is an old saying that goes something like this:

When a couple gets married, everything that a man has now belongs to the woman, and everything that the woman has still belongs to the woman.

In other words, there are women who enter into relationships only for what they can get, but they do not give. In that sense, "independence" is wicked.

Anyhow, although I am personally out of the dating game, I would not be threatened by an independent woman. Quite frankly, I would be leery of a needy woman instead. By "a needy woman," I mean someone who would be incapable of doing anything on her own. As you said, couples ought to compliment each other. Healthy relationships need to include a give and take on both sides. If either party has nothing to give, then there are bound to be problems.

For whatever that is worth.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

It seems like so much more of a compliment to want a guy rather than need him..... like, "need" implies that you are wanting him for selfish reasons, but "want" implies that you value a guy simply for who he is, and you enjoy his company.... like, you want to spend time with him simply because you enjoy spending time with him.

Like I said, I am totally out of the dating game, but I could not possibly agree more with what you said here.

In fact, going way beyond just a guy/gal dating thing, I believe that I can honestly say that there are only two people on the face of this earth who truly value me for who I am. The rest? The only time that I ever hear from any of them is when they need something.

Anyhow, you are correct.

A man should be happy if he is wanted, and leery if he is merely needed.

 

[Texasgal]

I’m not part of the dating game myself. I’m a widow and I have adjusted to that over the years.

I’m fully independent and I intend to be that until they wheelchairs me into a retirement home or the Lord calls me home.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

What I commonly hear said is that women don't need men at all. Men find this notion funny.
Also some women referring to themselves as Boss B!tches.
These women run their own companies, are flashy with their wealth, think they're the ultimate type of woman, more or less. There was a café that only hired women and only served women. No men allowed. It failed big time, quickly, but it shows the mindset behind many of these women. It's all about feminism. Women are equal in every way to men, if not better than men.
So these have been the prevelant mindsets the past few years.

 

[Lynx]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

It's all in the additude you have when you say you are independent.

There are some women who say it like, I don't need no man! I can handle my own business and men better back off! They are the female equivalent of MGTOW. They have a tendency to talk a lot about the patriarchy and disparage women who do get married.

Now normal ladies without that defiant attitude, who just take care of their own needs because somebody has to, that's something completely different. I do my own laundry and cooking. I can wash my own dishes. If a lady mows the yard and checks her own tire pressure, nothing wrong with that.

Of course some people get those two groups mixed up. If a guy sees you checking your own tire pressure, he might automatically think you are one of those crabby old bats with a lot of attitude. But if he makes that assumption, that's his problem.

 

[Lynx]

But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us.

About that:

Soooo... What are you doing this Saturday night?

 

[Adstar]

Lol y'all ladies be nice to Adstar and any other guy brave enough to post in this thread...... I really am legit confused by this issue and all perspectives are appreciated!

Soooo.... if a lady is paying her own bills and solving her own problems, does that mean the "need" would be on an emotional level?

Yes.. As far as i know most people Need Love.. To be loved and to love someone..

It seems like so much more of a compliment to want a guy rather than need him..... like, "need" implies that you are wanting him for selfish reasons, but "want" implies that you value a guy simply for who he is, and you enjoy his company....

Well that is probably a perspective woman or a higher percentage of woman have.. But we all know that woman are not all the same as much as men are not all the same..

like, you want to spend time with him simply because you enjoy spending time with him. I do not want to be needed, but if I'm going to date a guy I do need to be wanted. It almost seems like it would be manipulative to tell someone you "need" them.

Don't get me wrong being told you are wanted is good to hear.. But for a lot of people of the male type knowing someone needs you is more significant, Being Needed means you are a vital person in that persons life.. And men love to provide, Most men feel a big boost to their self esteem when they believe they are indispensable to a woman..

 

[Kainos]

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

If the frame of reference is spiritual, an independent woman in the Lord has made peace with her circumstances. She doesn't need to be interdependent with a man, because she's dependent on God.

The covenant relationship between God and His children is not a passive or distant care, but an intimate involvement in the protection and growth of those who've received the Spirit of adoption and cry Abba, Father. In that light, a man is inessential to a woman and vice versa.

That can grind a man's gears when he's not spiritually mature, because no male is wholly fulfilled by himself, doing things for himself, since the strength of a male is in what he can do for the those he loves. He wants to be needed and needs to be wanted.

Males want to be the alpha to the females in their life, which is no bad thing. But the natural man isn't conscious of Who the actual Alpha in the life of a child of God is, hence all the head-scratching when a woman of faith is at peace, having no burning necessity for a man.

I have a high regard for women who are independent, because they put their confidence in God to protect and watch over them. On the other hand, the Jezebelles, feminists, whatever they're called, are beyond the pale.

The irony of those women is that in being alienated from God, they need actual men in their life more than anyone, to torpedo their false impression of what it means to be independent.

 

[Gideon300]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

Independence unfortunately often means independence from God. That is not a strength, it is a weakness. I know a lot about it. I started school at four years old. My mother took me the first day. She told me that I would not let her take me the next day because I knew the way. Four. I did not know better, course. It's only when things go wrong that we find out where we are really at.

Many women (and men) are overconfident. There have been experiments to show this. A group men and a group of women were left to fend for themselves in the wild. The men had a fire going, shelters made and were cooking food while the women were still wondering where to start. Men generally are task oriented and highly focused (which infuriates some women). Women have the ability to think about a number of things and are a lot more flexible.

I had to look after my wife for 3 weeks after she got out of hospital. She had arranged for home care but for some reason that was overlooked. She was pretty much helpless. None of what I had to do was hard. I can cook and clean. I do my own washing and ironing.
What was draining was the time it took. It was none stop until she was asleep and then maybe I could get the shopping done. I realised that many mothers do this for years looking after the children. And some have a full time job as well.

God's order is for the man to take care of the woman, treating her with love and respect.

"The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved." Matthew Henry.

The great divide between men and women in Western culture robs both of the blessings of God's order.

 

[Cameron143]

It is unfortunate in our day and time that lifetime marriages...til death do we part...are not the norm. This has thrust women into roles and situations that God never intended. It has also made it more difficult for women who have had to assume independence to relinquish it in future relationships. While this is understandable at one level, on another level, it makes it difficult for them to fully accept a dependent role. I think there are 2 reasons for this:
...not fully trusting that a new partner will remain faithful,
...and having liked a degree of autonomy, wanting to maintain it.

Both are manageable enough if both parties are flexible. The man should recognize these tendencies and allow a measure of independence, and the woman should learn again to trust that both her new partner and God desire her best.

Relationships always come with baggage. Loving another person intimately bears all things.

 

[Mem]

Rewrite your resume:
Shotgun rider seeking wheel man
Industrious
Independent thinker

 

[kqr_anointed]

if the husband died that would be independent.

 

[HeIsHere]

If the frame of reference is spiritual, an independent woman in the Lord has made peace with her circumstances. She doesn't need to be interdependent with a man, because she's dependent on God.

The covenant relationship between God and His children is not a passive or distant care, but an intimate involvement in the protection and growth of those who've received the Spirit of adoption and cry Abba, Father. In that light, a man is inessential to a woman and vice versa.

That can grind a man's gears when he's not spiritually mature, because no male is wholly fulfilled by himself, doing things for himself, since the strength of a male is in what he can do for the those he loves. He wants to be needed and needs to be wanted.

Males want to be the alpha to the females in their life, which is no bad thing. But the natural man isn't conscious of Who the actual Alpha in the life of a child of God is, hence all the head-scratching when a woman of faith is at peace, having no burning necessity for a man.

I have a high regard for women who are independent, because they put their confidence in God to protect and watch over them. On the other hand, the Jezebelles, feminists, whatever they're called, are beyond the pale.

The irony of those women is that in being alienated from God, they need actual men in their life more than anyone, to torpedo their false impression of what it means to be independent.

Most excellent insight.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hey guys, there's something I've been wondering about and thought I'd get some outside perspectives.

Lately I keep hearing guys refer to "Independent women" in a very negative way. They mention how unattractive it is and how silly it is for a woman to think she doesn't "need" a man.

I get that men and women are designed to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. No argument there. But there's plenty of us ladies who have entered middle age and realize that we might never have a man looking out for us. So, in that case......wouldn't it be silly for us to go about "needing" something we don't have? Isn't the logical course of action to figure out how to make do without something you might NEVER have?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what men mean by "independent". I would have thought it just meant a woman who pays her own bills, doesn't make her problems other people's problems, and probably won't call you sobbing from the side of the road because she forgot to put gas in the car. But maybe I'm mistaken about that, and men are referring to something else entirely?

Anyways, thoughts? I realize that not all men are turned off by independence, I'm just curious why anyone would be..... seems like its a good trait regardless of gender, yet I generally hear it like it's a bad thing for women and a good thing for men.

It's just in reference to young women today who not only don't want a man but also think men are useless.

 

[Lynx]

Rewrite your resume:
Shotgun rider seeking wheel man
Industrious
Independent thinker

Sure got MY attention.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

>Dependant Upon.....<

Gotta do things His way or your marriages will be miserable. I've never been married, but have seen enough to prove the Bible I read each day to be true.

Without me you can do nothing!
Who said that?

 

[Texasgal]

It’s sad to see the antagonism of men vs. women.

Do any of you know how many men I had to beat up to earn my place as a woman in the Navy?