Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!

[Phoneman-777]

" two resurrections" ???? Matthew 25 shows only one.


The Son of Man Will Judge All People
31 “The Son of Man will come again with divine greatness, and all his angels will come with him. He will sit as king on his great and glorious throne. 32 All the people of the world will be gathered before him. Then he will separate everyone into two groups. It will be like a shepherd separating his sheep from his goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the king will say to the godly people on his right, ‘Come, my Father has great blessings for you. The kingdom he promised is now yours. It has been prepared for you since the world was made. 35 It is yours because when I was hungry, you gave me food to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me something to drink. When I had no place to stay, you welcomed me into your home. 36 When I was without clothes, you gave me something to wear. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the godly people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food? When did we see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you with no place to stay and welcome you into our home? When did we see you without clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and care for you?’

40 “Then the king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you did for any of my people here, you also did for me.’

41 “Then the king will say to the evil people on his left, ‘Get away from me. God has already decided that you will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever—the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 You must go away because when I was hungry, you gave me nothing to eat. When I was thirsty, you gave me nothing to drink. 43 When I had no place to stay, you did not welcome me into your home. When I was without clothes, you gave me nothing to wear. When I was sick and in prison, you did not care for me.’

44 “Then those people will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty? When did we see you without a place to stay? Or when did we see you without clothes or sick or in prison? When did we see any of this and not help you?’

45 “The king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you refused to do for any of my people here, you refused to do for me.’

46 “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.”

Matthew 27:52–53
English Standard Version
52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of rthe saints swho had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into tthe holy city and appeared to many.

Ephesians 4:7-12
King James Version
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

I didn't read your post because it's an attempt to "prove" only one resurrection when the Bible explicitly says there are TWO. Again, WORDS MEAN THINGS.

The word "the" is a "definite article". When Jesus says "the resurrection of life" it refers to a specific, definite resurrection of those who will be granted eternal life...just as if someone said, "I'm getting on the plane", etc. When He says "the resurrection of the damned", again, "the" refers to a separate, specific resurrection of those who will die the second death.

And, let's not forget Revelation says the "rest of the dead" (specifically, the "wicked" dead) lived not again until the thousand years were finished" followed by the parenthetical statement "This is the first resurrection" which statement refers to those mentioned in the previous verse who would arise BEFORE "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished".

IT'S DURING THIS THOUSAND YEARS THAT THE EARTH WILL LIE IN EMPTY, SILENT, DESOLATE, DARK, DESTROYED, UNINHABITED RUINS SO PROPHESIED OVER AND OVER IN JEREMIAH, ISAIAH, PETER, ETC., WHICH STATE OF DESTRUCTION NONE OF YOU JESUIT FUTURIST PAPISTS WILL EVEN ATTEMPT TO WORK INTO YOUR END TIME SCENARIOS. YOU KNOW THAT SINCE YOUR ESCHATOLOGICAL INTERPRETATIONS HAVE NON-STOP ACTIVITY HAPPENING DOWN HERE ON EARTH AND LEAVES NO ROOM FOR THIS PERIOD OF DESTRUCTIVE, SILENT DESOLATION OF THE EARTH, YOU ALL JUST PRETEND THOSE VERSES DON'T EXIST.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

The "false doctrine of Hell"? You just called Jesus a liar.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So who compromises the principles for the sake of an argument? It is truth or not!
1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Your hellmongering smacks of a badly woven tale. More fantastic than Buffy the vampire slayer, if that is possible.
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Hellmongerering is perverse. Preying on the weak with horror stories of God and Jesus. Preposterous!
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Watch your self. Your delusion will get stronger. God will deepen your delusion. The walls of babylon are high and getting higher. Get out of her before it is inescapable.
2 Thessalonians 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Don't weep for tammuz!

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Lack of explicit decree? How can the Bible be any more explicit than to say the voice of the "Son of Man" shall call forth the dead from their graves (John 5:25-29 KJV) but then Paul says the "voice of the Archangel" will call them forth (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 KJV)?

It's the LORD'S shout, the LORD'S voice, and the LORD'S trumpet (Zechariah 9:14 KJV) that Paul's talking about, right?

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
>>>This is a paraphrase of the Gospels of Christ. There is no explicit connection to Michael.

1 Thes 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
>>>This is the return of the Lord. He is King of the Iron Rod now, Lord of the Host. He speaks, the heralds shout, the archangels commands and the trumpets blare at His command. Michael as a general can fulfill the archangel's voice (as he is one of many). Michael was never described as King,

Zechariah 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.
>>>This is the Vengeance of God. No correlation to Michael. I have included a most consistent commentary.
Pulpit Commentary https://biblehub.com/commentaries/zechariah/9-14.htm
The Lord shall be seen over them. To encourage the chosen people in the contest, the Lord shall make iris presence manifest as their Leader.
His arrow. God's arrows are the judgments which he inflicts upon his enemies, which come forth suddenly as the lightning flash, and cannot be avoided.
Shall blow the trumpet. As the signal of battle and calamity.
Whirlwinds of the south. He shall come upon the enemy and sweep them away with irresistible force. Storms from the south were the most violent, coming from the Arabian desert. Septuagint, Πορεύσεται ἐν σάλῳ ἀπειλῆς αὐτοῦ," He shall go in the surge of his menace."

There is no need of Jesus to be Michael to conform the verses.

 

[Duckybill]

So who compromises the principles for the sake of an argument? It is truth or not!
1 Tim 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Your hellmongering smacks of a badly woven tale. More fantastic than Buffy the vampire slayer, if that is possible.
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Hellmongerering is perverse. Preying on the weak with horror stories of God and Jesus. Preposterous!
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Watch your self. Your delusion will get stronger. God will deepen your delusion. The walls of babylon are high and getting higher. Get out of her before it is inescapable.
2 Thessalonians 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Don't weep for tammuz!

Why do you keep calling Jesus a "hellmonger"?

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Why do you keep calling Jesus a "hellmonger"?

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I have to hand it to you, you get a lot of mileage from 2 verses. As I cannot appeal to your sense of familial duty, nor depend on the integrity of your logical principles, nor your fear of God, how about some extrapolations from the Good Book and no verses?

No Jesus is not a hellmonger.
Tammuz is a hellmonger! A pagan god whose adherents, from the so called faithful, weeps serious tears for this dying/resurrecting god. Because of this virtue signaling, the whole kit and kaboodle of the israelites sent to babylon with a serious mark on the forehead. During the persian incursion, tammuz change his name to mithras, the hellenistics to adonis and dionysus, and early roman empire sol invictus. What about the beast and the false prophet eras? Hmm I wonder...

Anyways, back to tammuz. He lived half a year with Ishtar (pronounce easter) and half a year with another lady in, you guessed it, hell. Every empire revives this dying god and in every hegemon his adherents weep and thump their chest, virtue signaling their way to babylon. One of the thing is tammuz the dying bonnie lad who is a god, he needs a place to stay when he is dead. I suspect the adherents make this place for him, you somewhere in the netherworld. hmm sounds familiar.

This pertains to Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10 and then some. Burn that unholy chaff. Holy fire man...er...I guess you would say hell fire...

 

[Goliath]

Now a certain man was sick named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
(John 11:1)

If beginning a story using the term, A certain man, makes the story a parable, wouldn't this mean the story Jesus tells about Lazarus is a parable too?

 

[John146]

Now a certain man was sick named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
(John 11:1)

If beginning a story using the term, A certain man, makes the story a parable, wouldn't this mean the story Jesus tells about Lazarus is a parable too?

He's in hell. His name has been blotted out. The only record of this man is that he was rich and fared sumptuously (lived in luxury). There are three other names in the story: Lazarus, Moses, and Abraham.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The popular yet erroneous teaching about Rich Man and Lazarus has succeeded to both strike fear in the hearts of Christians and drive countless others to atheism, because those who refuse to recognize this passage in Luke 16 as the parable that it is use it to advance the false idea of Eternal Torment - a doctrine of devils - because they know then can't substantiate a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable. Here's the other side of the story:

Actually, Jesus didn't give a parable about Lazarus and a rich man. He gave us a glimpse of life after death. There are no second chances. Everyone is accountable for their decisions.

We know it is not a parable because Jesus mentioned proper names, including Abraham and the discussion between Abraham and the rich man. No way that is a parable.

Jesus' account also proves that there is no such thing as soul sleep.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Now a certain man was sick named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.
(John 11:1)

If beginning a story using the term, A certain man, makes the story a parable, wouldn't this mean the story Jesus tells about Lazarus is a parable too?

The word used for "certain" is
Strong's Concordance G5100. tis
Usage: any one, some one, a certain one or thing.

see https://biblehub.com/greek/tinos_5100.htm

Luke 12:16 is indentified as part of a parabola. It uses the same greek and is translated as "certian". The general usage is to generically specify someone in a narrative/story or joke which may or may not be real that is not identified with a name. The argument is an overreach for a specific real person.

Archetypes
Abraham - friend of God
Moses - lawgiver
Lazarus (greek) - Eleazar (hebrew) - name means "Whom God Helps"
some rich guy
A story of archetypes

 

[Goliath]

He's in hell. His name has been blotted out. The only record of this man is that he was rich and fared sumptuously (lived in luxury). There are three other names in the story: Lazarus, Moses, and Abraham.[/QUOTE

Why didn't Jesus assign names to the subjects in his other parables?
Because this is not a parable. This man, Lazarus was real and so is hell.
So..do I believe we go to heaven or hell when we die?
No, but I do believe there was a time when hell did exist. Not because some says so, but because the bible says so...
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, by which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison, who one time were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, wherein few, (that is, eight souls) were saved by water.
(1 Peter 3:18-20)

 

[John146]

Hell still exists. It will eventually be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[DavidTree]

He's in hell. His name has been blotted out. The only record of this man is that he was rich and fared sumptuously (lived in luxury). There are three other names in the story: Lazarus, Moses, and Abraham.

Funny, i don't see anywhere that this is a parable.
But if we seek to make it a parable, then we can make playdough out of scripture and boy that's fun.

 

[Duckybill]

I have to hand it to you, you get a lot of mileage from 2 verses. As I cannot appeal to your sense of familial duty, nor depend on the integrity of your logical principles, nor your fear of God, how about some extrapolations from the Good Book and no verses?

No Jesus is not a hellmonger.
Tammuz is a hellmonger! A pagan god whose adherents, from the so called faithful, weeps serious tears for this dying/resurrecting god. Because of this virtue signaling, the whole kit and kaboodle of the israelites sent to babylon with a serious mark on the forehead. During the persian incursion, tammuz change his name to mithras, the hellenistics to adonis and dionysus, and early roman empire sol invictus. What about the beast and the false prophet eras? Hmm I wonder...

Anyways, back to tammuz. He lived half a year with Ishtar (pronounce easter) and half a year with another lady in, you guessed it, hell. Every empire revives this dying god and in every hegemon his adherents weep and thump their chest, virtue signaling their way to babylon. One of the thing is tammuz the dying bonnie lad who is a god, he needs a place to stay when he is dead. I suspect the adherents make this place for him, you somewhere in the netherworld. hmm sounds familiar.

This pertains to Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:10 and then some. Burn that unholy chaff. Holy fire man...er...I guess you would say hell fire...

I agree with Jesus.
Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

I agree with Jesus.
Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

I believe I have been righteously rebuked. I knew I should have left the innuendo out. Consider me properly rebuked. Not about hell though.

I guess there is very little else I can say to shake your tree, so I will leave that to Jesus. Please have the last word.

 

[TheLearner]

You didn't answer the question, so I'll answer it for you:

It says "MANY of the bodies of the saints which slept" came forth from the tombs...it doesn't say "ALL".

Inference isn't necessary when we have a plain "thus saith the Lord".

ah, yes I did too.

 

[TheLearner]

read to here, hi all

 

[kenallen]

The popular yet erroneous teaching about Rich Man and Lazarus has succeeded to both strike fear in the hearts of Christians and drive countless others to atheism, because those who refuse to recognize this passage in Luke 16 as the parable that it is use it to advance the false idea of Eternal Torment - a doctrine of devils - because they know then can't substantiate a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable. Here's the other side of the story:

This is my first time posting anything here. I read the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Was Lazarus sick or have some problem because he had sores and the dogs came and licked them. Sick if you ask me. or was he lazy and just wanted a handout. Because he ended up on the right side of the gulf I am going to say he was sick. What was the name of the rich man? Why did Lazarus end up on the good side and the rich man on the bad side. He did not help Lazarus ok that was wrong but it did not say Lazarus was a christian or even know Jesus. A story a parable why does it matter. I said for years "I am a christian, I believe in God, I believe Jesus died on the cross but as I said in my introduction I have come to see that there is a difference in believing, the chair is going to hold me whin I set down or the light is going to come on whin I hit the switch and knowing God, Jesus and believing in Him, believing He is real and not just some spirit, or thing out there in space. I know I am going to be a little slow I am just starting out here but I thank that with some help I can figure things out. My friend gave me a King James bible and a Strong's concordance.
Look forward to hearing from all of you Ken

 

[Sipsey]

This is my first time posting anything here. I read the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Was Lazarus sick or have some problem because he had sores and the dogs came and licked them. Sick if you ask me. or was he lazy and just wanted a handout. Because he ended up on the right side of the gulf I am going to say he was sick. What was the name of the rich man? Why did Lazarus end up on the good side and the rich man on the bad side. He did not help Lazarus ok that was wrong but it did not say Lazarus was a christian or even know Jesus. A story a parable why does it matter. I said for years "I am a christian, I believe in God, I believe Jesus died on the cross but as I said in my introduction I have come to see that there is a difference in believing, the chair is going to hold me whin I set down or the light is going to come on whin I hit the switch and knowing God, Jesus and believing in Him, believing He is real and not just some spirit, or thing out there in space. I know I am going to be a little slow I am just starting out here but I thank that with some help I can figure things out. My friend gave me a King James bible and a Strong's concordance.
Look forward to hearing from all of you Ken

Morning Ken- Everyone that is born into this world gets to the point hat they must make their own decisions. I think the verse that speaks about,”working out your own salvation,“ is a great view of what lies ahead for each of us.

It would be great to have a teacher come into our lives that has the right motivation when teaching us. I think the family unit should be the primary way we learn, but alas, so many families have been broken.

Read, pray, study, and share what God has done for you. God will help you along any road you travel, including this forum. Don’t hesitate to type, there are some fine, mature Christians in this group.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The "false doctrine of Hell"? You just called Jesus a liar.

Matthew 25:41 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Sodom and Gomorrah are cities said to have suffered the " vengeance of eternal fire"...are these cities still burning?

No.

We know they're under the Dead Sea. The RESULT - NOT THE PROCESS - is what's eternal and everlasting.

 

[Phoneman-777]

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
>>>This is a paraphrase of the Gospels of Christ. There is no explicit connection to Michael.

1 Thes 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
>>>This is the return of the Lord. He is King of the Iron Rod now, Lord of the Host. He speaks, the heralds shout, the archangels commands and the trumpets blare at His command. Michael as a general can fulfill the archangel's voice (as he is one of many). Michael was never described as King,

Zechariah 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.
>>>This is the Vengeance of God. No correlation to Michael. I have included a most consistent commentary.
Pulpit Commentary https://biblehub.com/commentaries/zechariah/9-14.htm
The Lord shall be seen over them. To encourage the chosen people in the contest, the Lord shall make iris presence manifest as their Leader.
His arrow. God's arrows are the judgments which he inflicts upon his enemies, which come forth suddenly as the lightning flash, and cannot be avoided.
Shall blow the trumpet. As the signal of battle and calamity.
Whirlwinds of the south. He shall come upon the enemy and sweep them away with irresistible force. Storms from the south were the most violent, coming from the Arabian desert. Septuagint, Πορεύσεται ἐν σάλῳ ἀπειλῆς αὐτοῦ," He shall go in the surge of his menace."

There is no need of Jesus to be Michael to conform the verses.

There is no need to discount Jesus as Michael from these verses, either.

In fact, we read NO WHERE of the Lord blowing a trumpet EXCEPT at the end of time when Jesus descends. Please find just one instance in all the Scripture where the Lord blew a trumpet over the armies of Israel. It's not there.

It's the Lord Jesus' shout, the Lord Jesus' trumpet, and the Lord Jesus' voice (Michael) which raises the dead, because the voice of a mere angel cannot wake a dead gnat let alone the righteous of all ages.