Iron sharpens iron

[Live4Him]

I think that I dated her once...lol.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When it comes to rebuking or correcting anyone else, I always try (notice that I didn't say that I always succeed...lol) to keep these two portions of scripture in mind:

II Corinthians chapter 10

[3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
[4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
[5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
[6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

We're really not supposed to be seeking to "revenge all disobedience" or rebuke others until our own "obedience is fulfilled" or until we've first repented ourselves.

Along these same lines, we read:

Matthew chapter 7

[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

It's the same principle.

Basically, repent first yourself, and then you're qualified to tell others to repent of the very same things which you've previously repented of yourself.

For me, there are two outcomes that we should expect if we follow this Biblical principle.

1. We'll be more patient and merciful with the person we're rebuking or reproving because we will have realized how much of God's mercy we needed ourselves and how patient or long-suffering he had been with us while waiting for us to repent.

This seems to be more along the lines of what you've been adding here, and I have no problem with that whatsoever.

When we get to what I believe the second outcome should be however, then this is where I might lose a lot of people.

2. We'll realize that if we didn't ultimately repent, then there could/would have been major consequences that followed, and this should place a sense of urgency and/or fear of God in us to admonish others to repent of the very same things that we've previously repented of.

I know that it seems like I just contradicted myself by saying we should be patient while also having a sense of urgency (in that our lives are but a vapor and we don't really have a promise of tomorrow), but that's what I believe.

It's pretty much having the love of God and the fear of God simultaneously.

I hope that this makes some sort of sense.

obedience to the gospel right ? So just a small example

“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest:

for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:27-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree when someone is living that way as an example and speaking the gospel they would have a good position of respect and would have my own personal attention

the problem is hypocracy I’ve never met anyone who actually loved as Jesus taught and could say they were completely obedient . I do believe that’s a good standard for judging another persons sins if we ourselves are without sin then we would have that moral ground I’m just not sure that person exists

a lot of times we actually just think we are really doing great in obedience until we hear the word I think when this clicks with us

“All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes;

but the Lord weigheth the spirits.

Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:2-3‬ ‭

I would agree that someone who has come to complete obedience would be a good person to take a rebuke from I sure would , but that obedience for me would look like the gospel it would be not murdering or stealing , but the things Jesus taught and said were eternal life to believe

I appreciate the conversation and good spirit with which you discuss and interact.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thanks for sharing your own insights.

Your post reminded me of something else that Paul regularly did:

PRAY FOR THOSE HE WAS ATTEMPTING TO MINISTER TO.

Yes and his prayers came from here which is ultimately where we have to begin to move and grow

“For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭2:4‬ ‭

Love for others is the root of successful ministry and prayer

 

[Live4Him]

obedience to the gospel right ? So just a small example

“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest:

for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:27-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I agree when someone is living that way as an example and speaking the gospel they would have a good position of respect and would have my own personal attention

the problem is hypocracy I’ve never met anyone who actually loved as Jesus taught and could say they were completely obedient . I do believe that’s a good standard for judging another persons sins if we ourselves are without sin then we would have that moral ground I’m just not sure that person exists

a lot of times we actually just think we are really doing great in obedience until we hear the word I think when this clicks with us

“All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes;

but the Lord weigheth the spirits.

Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16:2-3‬ ‭

I would agree that someone who has come to complete obedience would be a good person to take a rebuke from I sure would , but that obedience for me would look like the gospel it would be not murdering or stealing , but the things Jesus taught and said were eternal life to believe

I appreciate the conversation and good spirit with which you discuss and interact.

I think that you misunderstood what I was attempting to say.

Perhaps I was too vague and it's my fault.

In either case, I wasn't suggesting that we have to be perfectly obedient before correcting another.

Instead, I meant that we shouldn't be rebuking others for things which we haven't yet dealt with in our own lives because that would be hypocrisy.

At the same time, I was trying to say that if God rebukes me for something, and I not only know that I need to repent of it, but also do actually repent of it, then if I see that same thing in another person it is as equally bad in God's eyes because he's no respecter of persons.

In other words, I need to remove the beam from my own eye FIRST via repentance, and then, and only then, can I see clearly enough to properly rebuke or reprove someone with but a speck of what I needed to FIRST repent of in my own life to repent themselves.

Again, if we realize how much grace and mercy we need from God ourselves, then we'll hopefully tend to be more gracious and merciful to others when dealing with them.

At the same time, if we realize how repulsive our own sin was in God's eyes before we repented of it, then we can know that it's equally as repulsive to God when he sees it in another, and we should seek to warn them accordingly.

Let me make this more personal...

I've gotten into confrontations with certain individuals on this forum who are presently believing and teaching things that I once taught and believed UNTIL GOD HIMSELF THOROUGHLY REBUKED ME AND I REPENTED.

Seeing how it was so horribly wrong in God's eyes when I was believing and teaching it, it's as equally horribly wrong now when others are doing the same.

With such being the case, I try to help them to see the error of their ways, having once been guilty of the same.

This is what I was trying to get across to you in my other post that you quoted.

Hope this clears things up.

 

[Live4Him]

Yes and his prayers came from here which is ultimately where we have to begin to move and grow

“For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭2:4‬ ‭

Love for others is the root of successful ministry and prayer

Of course, I agree.

Maybe I'm mistaken (correct me if I am), but it seems as if you find rebuking and loving to be contrasting things.

In either case, let me remind everyone of this truth:

The Bible says that God is love.

The Bible does not say that love is God.

There is a MAJOR difference between the two.

In other words, seeing how God truly is love, we need to look at every aspect of God in order to properly define what "love" truly is.

Does God rebuke, reprove, correct, etc., etc., etc.?

Yes, he does, and not only directly, but also through his people throughout history.

As the ultimate Father, God chastens those he loves, and scourges those he receives. In fact, if we're without chastisement, then God considers us to be bastards.

This is reality, whether anybody here or elsewhere likes it or not.

Despite this reality, so many professing Christians today get totally bent out of shape if even a corrective glance comes their way, and that is the sign of a MAJOR PROBLEM WITHIN THEM.

Sorry, but that's just the way that it is, and I'm trying to encourage people not to "kick against the pricks", so to speak, as Saul did until Jesus knocked him to the ground.

Anyhow....

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think that you misunderstood what I was attempting to say.

Perhaps I was too vague and it's my fault.

In either case, I wasn't suggesting that we have to be perfectly obedient before correcting another.

Instead, I meant that we shouldn't be rebuking others for things which we haven't yet dealt with in our own lives because that would be hypocrisy.

At the same time, I was trying to say that if God rebukes me for something, and I not only know that I need to repent of it, but also do actually repent of it, then if I see that same thing in another person it is as equally bad in God's eyes because he's no respecter of persons.

In other words, I need to remove the beam from my own eye FIRST via repentance, and then, and only then, can I see clearly enough to properly rebuke or reprove someone with but a speck of what I needed to FIRST repent of in my own life to repent themselves.

Again, if we realize how much grace and mercy we need from God ourselves, then we'll hopefully tend to be more gracious and merciful to others when dealing with them.

At the same time, if we realize how repulsive our own sin was in God's eyes before we repented of it, then we can know that it's equally as repulsive to God when he sees it in another, and we should seek to warn them accordingly.

Let me make this more personal...

I've gotten into confrontations with certain individuals on this forum who are presently believing and teaching things that I once taught and believed UNTIL GOD HIMSELF THOROUGHLY REBUKED ME AND I REPENTED.

Seeing how it was so horribly wrong in God's eyes when I was believing and teaching it, it's as equally horribly wrong now when others are doing the same.

With such being the case, I try to help them to see the error of their ways, having once been guilty of the same.

This is what I was trying to get across to you in my other post that you quoted.

Hope this clears things up.

Yes I believe in warning people but what I thought you were getting at was that when someone’s obedience is full then they are able to rebuke others

so you are saying then that if I stole something and repent and dpntsteal
Anymore then I would have the right to rebuke a thief ?

but if I’m committing adultery I wouldn’t have a place to correct an adulterer ?

is that what you are saying each sin is different and once we overcome each sin then we can correct others ?

I think I’m looking at it like sin is sin and sinners don’t have a place to stand above and correct another sinner I think I’m Rene Bering this teaching about sin

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m probably missing what you are getting at I apologize I think it comes down to sinners don’t have any place over or above another sinner. Or any moral high ground a liar correcting an adulterer just is not how it should be or a killer teaching a liar not to lie

I think ultimately we’re kind of all in the same boat created by the lord whether we’re imperfect in one area of obedience or another either way there’s no difference to God a liar and a thief are both on the same exact plain

I know this sounds like what you are saying

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. ( because he doesn’t do any of those things he can judge because we do we can’t )


And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭

I think I’m seeing it together with James understanding that sin is sin , one sin breaks the whole law and makes one a transgressor. So I think I’d read that differently and a thief has no place rebuking a liar , a liar no place rebuking an adulterer and so on

these are just my thoughts bro , you seem to know a lot of good stuff so don’t take it as an argument or anything I just read those verses a bit differently given other things

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course, I agree.

Maybe I'm mistaken (correct me if I am), but it seems as if you find rebuking and loving to be contrasting things.

In either case, let me remind everyone of this truth:

The Bible says that God is love.

The Bible does not say that love is God.

There is a MAJOR difference between the two.

In other words, seeing how God truly is love, we need to look at every aspect of God in order to properly define what "love" truly is.

Does God rebuke, reprove, correct, etc., etc., etc.?

Yes, he does, and not only directly, but also through his people throughout history.

As the ultimate Father, God chastens those he loves, and scourges those he receives. In fact, if we're without chastisement, then God considers us to be bastards.

This is reality, whether anybody here or elsewhere likes it or not.

Despite this reality, so many professing Christians today get totally bent out of shape if even a corrective glance comes their way, and that is the sign of a MAJOR PROBLEM WITHIN THEM.

Sorry, but that's just the way that it is, and I'm trying to encourage people not to "kick against the pricks", so to speak, as Saul did until Jesus knocked him to the ground.

Anyhow....

no no I’m saying a rebuke doesn’t have to be a hard iron clashing against a hard iron rebukes can come from love and they are gentle , exhibit patience and are always rooted in a love for the person

no I’m not saying love doesn’t involve rebuke I appreciate the conversation brothers I hope to speak again with you may the lord speak to us in the quiet God bless

 

[Live4Him]

Yes I believe in warning people but what I thought you were getting at was that when someone’s obedience is full then they are able to rebuke others

so you are saying then that if I stole something and repent and dpntsteal
Anymore then I would have the right to rebuke a thief ?

but if I’m committing adultery I wouldn’t have a place to correct an adulterer ?

is that what you are saying each sin is different and once we overcome each sin then we can correct others ?

I think I’m looking at it like sin is sin and sinners don’t have a place to stand above and correct another sinner I think I’m Rene Bering this teaching about sin

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m probably missing what you are getting at I apologize I think it comes down to sinners don’t have any place over or above another sinner. Or any moral high ground a liar correcting an adulterer just is not how it should be or a killer teaching a liar not to lie

I think ultimately we’re kind of all in the same boat created by the lord whether we’re imperfect in one area of obedience or another either way there’s no difference to God a liar and a thief are both on the same exact plain

I know this sounds like what you are saying

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. ( because he doesn’t do any of those things he can judge because we do we can’t )


And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭

I think I’m seeing it together with James understanding that sin is sin , one sin breaks the whole law and makes one a transgressor. So I think I’d read that differently and a thief has no place rebuking a liar , a liar no place rebuking an adulterer and so on

these are just my thoughts bro , you seem to know a lot of good stuff so don’t take it as an argument or anything I just read those verses a bit differently given other things

Seeing how you asked about stealing and adultery, this should answer your question:

Romans chapter 2

[21] Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
[22] Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

To teach others not to do the very things that we are doing ourselves is hypocrisy.

It's that simple.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Seeing how you asked about stealing and adultery, this should answer your question:

Romans chapter 2

[21] Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
[22] Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

To teach others to not to do the very things that we are doing ourselves is hypocrisy.

It's that simple.

Uh , yeah that’s what I’m saying

a thief is a sinner , a liar is a sinner . One sinner teaching another from a position of rebuke is hypocracy

this is where that’s coming from the people we’re looking down on the poor dressed in rags and they were looking up to the well to do and well dressed in thier group so James tells them

“But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:9-12‬ ‭

whether they were looking down on the poor , they were sinners guilty of breaking the entire law because they had transgressed at only 1 point of the law

my point is a thief telling a liar they need to repent of their lies is hypocracy because both are transgressors of the law and are in the exact same position liars don’t have a place teaching a thief anything until they get themselves right is the point

a liar is no different from a thief , an adulterer or the like one transgression breaks Gods entire law so it is hypocracy for a sinner to rebuke another sinner for their sins while partaking in thoer own sins

so I don’t think a liar should be rebuking a thief is what I was saying that’s hypocritical for one sinner to be rebuking another sinner doesn’t matter what the sin is it’s the same

“whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

what Jesus was talking about was removing our own sins in order to see clearly enough to correct others sins . I don’t think it goes sin by sin so if I repent of lying now I’m the authority on truth or anything I’d just be a sinner in a different way and have no place rebuking another sinner for whatever sins they have committed

 

[Live4Him]

So, basically you're saying that we should never rebuke anybody because we're all sinners?

Luke chapter 17

[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
[4] And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Anyhow, I think that we've had enough back and forth on this particular point, so I'll just leave it at that and let others draw their own conclusions.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So, basically you're saying that we should never rebuke anybody because we're all sinners?

Luke chapter 17

[3] Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
[4] And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Anyhow, I think that we've had enough back and forth on this particular point, so I'll just leave it at that and let others draw their own conclusions.

no I’m saying we should share the gospel amongst each other , and the. They will have a teacher that is capable of rebuking them in thoer heart where it matters and he actually has that authority because he did no sin

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬



“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭

I believe corrections come when a believer accepts the gospel and the teachings of the lord . See we believe in him so when he’s saying something that becomes a real rebuke to us regarding things we didn’t even understand like the lust inside our heart is adultery of the heart .

that becomes a rebuke to anyone who has lustful thoughts or intents in thier heart and through that spirit of truth , they can then begin to be free from the sin of adultery or fornication because thier belief has moved from

“ don’t commit the act of adultery “ to “ do not allow lustful thoughts to fester or reside in your mind and heart .

because the thing is when the heart is clean of a sinful spirit , the actions become a simple fruit of what’s inside our faith in our heart our new and corrected belief looking inward at the issue rather than outward at the fruit produced from the source e only way out of sin is to follow The spirit .


Things like what’s in our heart Jesus teachings about lust, hate , greed and material things ect all of those attitudes and true understandings he preached are the spirit we follow into freedom from the snare we find ourselves in

 

[Blik]

Believe it or not (BELIEVE IT), I used to be the biggest "yes" man ever (as a professing Christian), and God himself REBUKED the heck out of me, multiple times over a period of time, until I finally repented.

EVERYBODY AND THEIR GRANDMOTHER used to love me.

Once I started telling people the things that God was telling me to tell them...well, let's just say that I don't get invited to too many parties...lol.

But it is not going to parties that is important, but sharing with friends is important. Friend know you love them, and your love for them is not based on how you pretend, but on honesty.

As an example, I think that the Lord wants us to celebrate Passover this March 27th. Many people I love and respect believe that the Lord told us that we are not to celebrate Passover on that day. I have learned to be quiet about this in many cases, for it results in enemies. I think we should be able to discuss it together without danger of "enemies".

It isn't about Passover any more, but about being able to discuss differences and still share love and respect for each other.

 

[Live4Him]

But it is not going to parties that is important, but sharing with friends is important. Friend know you love them, and your love for them is not based on how you pretend, but on honesty.

As an example, I think that the Lord wants us to celebrate Passover this March 27th. Many people I love and respect believe that the Lord told us that we are not to celebrate Passover on that day. I have learned to be quiet about this in many cases, for it results in enemies. I think we should be able to discuss it together without danger of "enemies".

It isn't about Passover any more, but about being able to discuss differences and still share love and respect for each other.

Hi, Blik.

I was semi-joking when I said that I don't get invited to parties (even though I don't). Truth be told, many people I know don't want me in their company at all, wherever they may be, simply because of my association with Christ. For example (and this is an actual example that I've encountered a multitude of times), if I walk into a setting, merely wearing a Christian-themed ballcap like I'm wearing in my profile picture, then that alone drives many people into a frenzy. With such being the case, the real issue is that they don't want any semblance of Christ in their company, and that's just part of the Christian life, so I'm not complaining about it. Instead, the point that I was attempting to make is that people don't mind having you around if you "check Christ at the door", so to speak, by not behaving or speaking in a Christ-centered way.

Anyhow, I definitely agree with you that we should be able to discuss, I'll add "civilly", differences and still share love and respect for each other. I'm firmly convinced, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that there is only one reason why this ofttimes is not the case.

Again, Solomon said:

"Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom." (Proverbs 13:10)

I'll just leave it at that.

 

[1ofthem]

Have compassion on some making a difference and others save by fear pulling them out of the fire.

Someone on the verge of breaking down and at a low point in life, doesn't need to be beat down with the word of God. They need to be encouraged and lifted up with the word of God. These folks need to be handled with kid gloves and need a softer approach.

However, someone lifted up in pride, opposing themselves, and going against the word of God without fear is a different story. It's going to take more than kind words to get it to sink in. Strong rebukes are going to be in order.

But as with anything else, this needs to be done through the guidance of the Spirit of God. God knows when and how to deal with everyone. If I get in myself and go out looking for folks to judge or Bible thump then all I'm really doing is looking for a fight. That ain't going to help anyone. It will more than likely just make it worse.

I'm not a preacher or teacher, but I have watched preachers get up in themselves, bragging and boasting in self righteousness, and judging others in the congregations, and run half the church off. None of what they were preaching was of the Lord. They just got up in themselves and made a mess.

Then again, I've saw preachers get up and skate around the scriptures and the truth trying not to offend anyone. That type of message didn't help anyone there, either. So I guess, balance and leaning on the Lord's leading and doing it exactly when and how he tells you to do it...is really the only right way to do it.

 

[Live4Him]

Have compassion on some making a difference and others save by fear pulling them out of the fire.

Someone on the verge of breaking down and at a low point in life, doesn't need to be beat down with the word of God. They need to be encouraged and lifted up with the word of God. These folks need to be handled with kid gloves and need a softer approach.

However, someone lifted up in pride, opposing themselves, and going against the word of God without fear is a different story. It's going to take more than kind words to get it to sink in. Strong rebukes are going to be in order.

But as with anything else, this needs to be done through the guidance of the Spirit of God. God knows when and how to deal with everyone. If I get in myself and go out looking for folks to judge or Bible thump then all I'm really doing is looking for a fight. That ain't going to help anyone. It will more than likely just make it worse.

I'm not a preacher or teacher, but I have watched preachers get up in themselves, bragging and boasting in self righteousness, and judging others in the congregations, and run half the church off. None of what they were preaching was of the Lord. They just got up in themselves and made a mess.

Then again, I've saw preachers get up and skate around the scriptures and the truth trying not to offend anyone. That type of message didn't help anyone there, either. So I guess, balance and leaning on the Lord's leading and doing it exactly when and how he tells you to do it...is really the only right way to do it.

Exactly.

 

[Live4Him]

Someone on the verge of breaking down and at a low point in life, doesn't need to be beat down with the word of God. They need to be encouraged and lifted up with the word of God. These folks need to be handled with kid gloves and need a softer approach.

With these types of people, this is the approach that I always take:

Isaiah chapter 42

[1] Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
[2] He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
[3] A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
[4] He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

This was written about Christ (Matt. 12:15-21).

When Christ encounters "a bruised reed" or, as you said, "someone on the verge of breaking down and at a low point in life", he doesn't "break" them. Instead, he seeks to strengthen and restore them.

Similarly, when he encounters "a smoking flax" or, as the ESV translates it, "a faintly burning wick", he doesn't "quench" or extinguish it, so we definitely shouldn't "beat people down with the word of God", as you said, who are in these types of conditions.

 

[Live4Him]

no I’m saying we should share the gospel amongst each other , and the. They will have a teacher that is capable of rebuking them in thoer heart where it matters and he actually has that authority because he did no sin

Jesus gave us the proper order to follow when rebuking someone, and it's completely different than what you're suggesting here in your posts (plural).

Matthew chapter 18

[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I'll stick with Jesus' instructions, and I would seriously advise others to do the same.

 

[Live4Him]

Anyhow...

Turning this conversation back to the verse that started this all, "IRON sharpens iron", and it does so via such things as "smashing" or "friction", depending upon what stage of the "sharpening" we're talking about.

Again, I'm NOT suggesting that we ever "smash" individuals themselves, but if they're proudly and stubbornly believing and teaching things that are contrary to the mind of Christ, then have at such things for the potential betterments of not only these types of individuals themselves, but also for the potential betterments of those whom they might negatively impact with their erroneous ways.

 

[1ofthem]

With these types of people, this is the approach that I always take:

Isaiah chapter 42

[1] Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
[2] He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
[3] A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
[4] He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

This was written about Christ (Matt. 12:15-21).

When Christ encounters "a bruised reed" or, as you said, "someone on the verge of breaking down and at a low point in life", he doesn't "break" them. Instead, he seeks to strengthen and restore them.

Similarly, when he encounters "a smoking flax" or, as the ESV translates it, "a faintly burning wick", he doesn't "quench" or extinguish it, so we definitely shouldn't "beat people down with the word of God", as you said, who are in these types of conditions.

Amen... People have to use wisdom with judgement. For some reason, people don't seem to understand this. They try to use the same approach for everyone and in doing so they can actually do more damage than good.

Anyways, good thread I have really enjoyed reading through and participating in it. Everyone has been respectful of each other and that makes for a good opportunity to discuss and learn. That is pretty rare on this site.

 

[Live4Him]

Amen... People have to use wisdom with judgement. For some reason, people don't seem to understand this. They try to use the same approach for everyone and in doing so they can actually do more damage than good.

Anyways, good thread I have really enjoyed reading through and participating in it. Everyone has been respectful of each other and that makes for a good opportunity to discuss and learn. That is pretty rare on this site.

We definitely need to be led by the Holy Spirit in our dealings with others.

Generally speaking, God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

THIS is what we see all throughout the scriptures from the God who is love.

Unfortunately, many seem to start with the premise that "love is God".

In other words, they begin with their own warped premise of what "love is", and then they fashion that into their "god", and worship and serve it accordingly.