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mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
The question/s of this Muslim chap, who began this thread, have been answered and reanswered from various angles. He has ignored every response and restated his opinions. He is not a seeker, but seems to find pleasure in sowing dissent, and a false gospel.
The question/s of this Muslim chap, who began this thread, have been answered and reanswered from various angles. He has ignored every response and restated his opinions. He is not a seeker, but seems to find pleasure in sowing dissent, and a false gospel.
No I don't want to sow dissent but I know knowledge is very valuable.It was this knowledge that I sailed from being born in a Muslim home to atheism(period of arrogance based on lack of knowledge)then after intense study of comparative religions I accepted Islam with knowledge.So if you will read other faiths and if they are wrong you will be more contented choosing christianity.Is that any wrong?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,825
8,598
113
I think there is a difference between not knowing Jesus, and hating Him. Many of the Pharisees hated Jesus, and hence became guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. They attributed His works to Satan.

The Muslims hold Jesus to be a prophet. So they recognise His good works, even if they don't recognise His deity. So although they don't know the real Jesus, I think it's unreasonable to claim that they hate Him.
Jesus makes no distinction between Himself and His Children:
Acts 9:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

We are INDEED hated for taking the Name of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ:

Matthew 10:22-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.

They have almost completely wiped out by execution, Christians in several Muslim nations. Ridiculous to say they don't hate us, or the REAL Jesus.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
Jesus prayed to One God and he told others same.HE said God is only one who is good(and don't call me good,thus he differentiates God from himself)
You need to read more carefully. Jesus did not say, or imply, "Don't call me good." He said, and meant, "No one is good except God." He did not actually differentiate God from himself; he implied that the man's understanding of "good" was flawed.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Yeah I thought I was replying to the Muslim....if you go back and read you will see I changed it before my 5 min edit time was up......

he-rat_of_the_circus-mice said:
Shouldn't you try to be respectful? This Muslim has come here, and is clearly seeking the truth. Why do you seek to harm him by insulting what he holds dear?

Granted, we believe Muhammad was wrong, and deceived. But do you think speaking in such a way will win any to Christ? Shouldn't you at least try to be as respectful about the Muslim's prophet, as they try to be about Jesus, given that we are believers and have the truth, and they do not?

I changed it to the following

NO.....He is devaluing Christ.....I will not coddle ISLAM........ever....and who are you?
Islam glorifies Jesus and tells its adherents to respect and love Jesus based on what he himself said not what church or his enemy(Paul said)
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Muhammed - Who was he?

He claimed Mecca was founded by Abraham, except before 600 AD there is no record of the city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca#History

The early history of Mecca is still largely disputed, as there are no unambiguous references to it in ancient literature prior to the rise of Islam.[31] The Roman Empire took control of part of the Hejaz in 106 CE,[32] ruling cities such as Hegra (now known as Mada'in Saleh), located to the north of Mecca. Even though detailed descriptions were established of Western Arabia by Rome, such as by Procopius, there are no references of a pilgrimage and trading outpost such as Mecca.[33] The first direct mention of Mecca in external literature occurs in 741 CE, in the Byzantine-Arab Chronicle, though here the author places it in Mesopotamia rather than the Hejaz.[33]

Given the inhospitable environment[34] and lack of historical references in Roman, Persian and Indian sources, historians including Patricia Crone and Tom Holland have cast doubt on the claim that Mecca was a major historical trading outpost.[34][35]


So whoever Muhammed was, his story is not significant other than as the founder of a violent and dictatorial
idiology that conquers and eliminates any opposition it comes across if it can.

It is the best fuzzy feel faith you can have, so that to oppose it can be called hatred, worthy of death,
while what it is is simple relabelling everything as Islamic, and then eliminating parts it does not like
with impunity. And the arbitors of this attitude is a weird mix of fanaticism and murder.

So it provides family protection, while dominating and owning the members through violence and abuse,
it conquers social systems, while seemingly just, but dividing and stigmatising all opposition as evil.

Make no mistake, it is brutal and aggressive, if not pointed out that it is unjust, self flattering and happy
to deceive and destroy others on a whim.

A classic idea is Islam has the moral high ground, except actually doing it and not sinning is often not
bothered with. Strange that, chastise the infidel and forget to actually do the right thing. No one is
checking because everyone is obviously, and anyway no one can say you are not because that itself
is wrong, o_O
coming of Muhammad is prpheside in gospel book of John by Jesus himself.Do you know that?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,529
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Jesus prayed to One God and he told others same.HE said God is only one who is good(and don't call me good,thus he differentiates God from himself)
Jesus called Himself God. John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

He did not correct Thomas for calling Him God. :cool:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
Bible says Jesus to be prophet and he didn't disagree.He himself never said I am GOd,nor worship me.Holy spirit was much before Jesus doing its work
Jesus was a prophet; that doesn't mean that He is not God.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Bible says Jesus to be prophet and he didn't disagree.He himself never said I am GOd,nor worship me.Holy spirit was much before Jesus doing its work
The problem you have is not knowing what love is.
Until you discover this Jesus will always be a mystery to you.

Jesus chose 12 disciples to show His heart to them, to become their friends and then to die for them
as the atoning sacrifice. This was the statement of absolute commitment and forgiveness for those
who will repent and believe in Him.

It was so short a ministry because He was God and knew exactly what He was doing.
It did not take 20 years of prophecy, contradictions, becoming a war lord, creating a homicidal army
to conquer the known world and enforce Islam upon them.

This has never been Gods way. Gods way is one of the heart and truth.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Jesus makes no distinction between Himself and His Children:
Acts 9:4 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”

We are INDEED hated for taking the Name of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ:

Matthew 10:22-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.

They have almost completely wiped out by execution, Christians in several Muslim nations. Ridiculous to say they don't hate us, or the REAL Jesus.
YOur saying statements without any background verification is hate in itself.Sorry my friend you don't look to be.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Jesus indeed is God incarnate, and your accusation that I hold a Koranic view is false testimony. I don't think calling Muhammad a fool is how Jesus, or Paul, or Peter, would act in love toward Muslims.

Gentleness and respect is what we are commanded.
so show where Jesus himself said I am God or worship me.That simple
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
The whole reason for the angels were there was to destroy the whole plain; it wasn't simply decided by the fact the men wanted to have them.
There was a large mob completely surrounding Lot's house trying to get these angels. Why? What was so special about them? And at Gibeah the whole town wanted this old Levite - why? What was special about him?

Why not rape Lot? Or did they?

Jesus puts Sodom and pre-flood mankind together in Matthew 24 and says in the last days the same thing will be happening. Now, homosexuality has been going on for thousands of years. All over the earth. And it's not mentioned as the evil of the days of Noah. It may be related, but there is something more significant about the days before the flood than gay sex. People and angels were mating and producing giants.

So I ask myself, why were the men of Sodom so determined to get hold of these angels? How did they come to have abundance of food and idleness? What were they doing? That they were so full of pride over? And what is mankind trying to do today - but not yet accomplished, that is related? That man would be extremely vain about if he were to find a way to do it?
Story of Lot written in Quran as well.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Shouldn't you try to be respectful? This Muslim has come here, and is clearly seeking the truth. Why do you seek to harm him by insulting what he holds dear?

Granted, we believe Muhammad was wrong, and deceived. But do you think speaking in such a way will win any to Christ? Shouldn't you at least try to be as respectful about the Muslim's prophet, as they try to be about Jesus, given that we are believers and have the truth, and they do not?
Muhammad was a messenger of God,Allah is the name in arabic to ELohim,or Ellaha in hebrew.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please help me understand this:
John 14:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
Thats Muhammad??

And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Is not muhammad dead? Jesus said this one would be with us forever!! And last I heard the world did see him, And he was never in anyone was he?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
No I don't want to sow dissent but I know knowledge is very valuable.It was this knowledge that I sailed from being born in a Muslim home to atheism(period of arrogance based on lack of knowledge)then after intense study of comparative religions I accepted Islam with knowledge.So if you will read other faiths and if they are wrong you will be more contented choosing christianity.Is that any wrong?
Have you read any of Nabeel Qureshi's books? I recommend Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
Muhammad was a messenger of God,Allah is the name in arabic to ELohim,or Ellaha in hebrew.
Regardless of the names used, the god described in the Quran is definitely not the same God described in the Bible.
 

mjkhan

Junior Member
Nov 1, 2017
169
9
18
Thats Muhammad??

And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Is not muhammad dead? Jesus said this one would be with us forever!!
Look see word "another"(so it is not holy spirit that was present much before Jesus)and surely Muhammad is not alive as is none else(Jesus not here)but his teachings through Quran a living and until day of judgement miracle is strong and going on and will stay forever.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
coming of Muhammad is prpheside in gospel book of John by Jesus himself.Do you know that?
This is the most stupid statement made by muslims.
Jesus is saying without the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer nothing in the gospel will make
sense. Unless He rose to be with Father, the Holy Spirit would not come.

Literally this was 40 days after or there abouts until the Holy Spirit came in power on the disciples.
They spoke in tongues and the church took off.

7 Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
John 16

Put simply Muhammed came 700 years later, and the Holy Spirit 40 days.
The disciples had not written down the gospels or anything, the Holy Spirit taught and guided
them into what it all meant.

The joke is muslims think christians do not know these verses or their significance in the new
covenant. Without communion with God in our hearts, be could not become the Holy Temples
of the living God as Paul declares. So we know these verses very well thank you.