The church did exist when the Great Commission was given and it stayed in Jerusalem to receive the promised Holy Spirit.
We begin where we are. The Great Commission mentioned Jerusalem because that is where they were at that time.
Is cessation an observation or theology?
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We begin where we are. The Great Commission mentioned Jerusalem because that is where they were at that time.
Right. But you guys are the ones being literal concerning the Great Commission not reaching every single person in the 1st century. Yet, you don't require literal adherence to the Commission by those you claim it was given. You don't see the hypocricy?
So then the commission given by Christ died with the 11 and I guess Paul ?
Why did Paul bother to go to different countries since he was not present with the 11?
I do not understand your answer. Oh I comprehend what you wrote ok....what I mean is, your interpretation is definately a new
flavor
Perhaps is it tied into your reformed beliefs?
My contention is that there is a difference between the audience scripture is written to and its application of its principles to later audiences. If one is going to claim that the Commission is given to all believers, are they not obligated to follow the Commission as originally given? Instead, the principle established in the Commission is for believers to evangelize.
Additionally, the world was evangelized in the 1st century due to the efforts of the Apostles and the diaspora.
Paul, himself, was commissioned by God in a prayer meeting.
My hypothetical is just as relevant as your baseless claims that you have not researched.
This is because there is no evidence to examine. If there were you would have presented it already.
Do your own research on your own claims and stop expecting others do it for you.
It is the Pentecostals who are making the claims of performing miracles, not I.
In the end it is you who has brought up Delia Knox and Mahesh Chavda, so where is your research?
I grow weary of your games.
This is really foolish. Very poor logic. But it is typical of your posts in this thread so far.
Ummm....I have always understood that the commission is for us to evangelize. Those who travelled to other countries are the exception in scripture...Paul's letters are directed to 'congregations' and not travelling evangelists. But people still do go to other countries and we call them missionaries... they evangelize, teach, support...whatever...the understanding being they are 'called by God' or have the impression to, follow that calling.
I'm not seeing the problem...if it is a problem...that you are indicating. Of course there is a difference from the 'audience' in scripture and us. But how much should we limit that understanding?
Again though, do you perhaps see things differently since you tend to lean towards God being the one who decides who will be saved or not? I think that is a serious and applicable question but you don't have to answer although I see where that could make a difference in how you perceive the scripture in question
It has nothing to do with soteriology. We're looking at a few scriptures. And I do believe we are to evangelize. And you make my point for me. The Great Commission requires those commissioned to go. Most believers don't go. How then do you say all believers are commissioned to go?
One of the primary tasks of a disciple is to go out and train others to be disciples.
Jesus told the original disciples: 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”…(Matthew 28:19-20)
One thing Jesus commanded them in this very passage was to go out and make more disciples. If they were supposed to teach and train others to obey EVERYTHING JESUS HAD COMMANDED THEM TO DO would this not have NECESSARILY include the command to train more disciples?
No argument with that. Only that you didn't give the whole message contained in the Commission. Jesus commanded them to go to all nations. You are a believer. If you believe that Commission was to you, why don't you go to all nations?
We do go to all nations via intercessory prayers and through Christian radio, tv, and internet channels, as well as missionaries physically relocating to foreign lands.
“Go to all nations (ethne)” means bring the gospel to all ethnic groups, several of which can be found in your own city and neighborhood.
Panta ta ethane frequently translates to “go to all specific cultural or linguistic groups (tribes, peoples)”, not necessarily areas with fixed geopolitical borders.
Thus, the command simultaneously can mean to relocate physically to preach in foreign lands and/or reach people of various ethnic groups who live nearby, plus via technology, to get the message to distant lands with radio, tv, internet.
So the disciples Jesus was speaking to were supposed to employ prayer? I find that quite the stretch. The meaning of the great commission is further understood by Acts 1:8. Jesus was clearly telling them to get their boots on and hit the road.
Is there a correlation between the time of the apostles' commission to go unto all the world and matt 24:14's "and then the end will come."?
I believe no one person or group of people could accomplish what He was asking. However, when seeds are planted and reproduce the harvest is multiplied exponentially. Jesus did not send only 12 workers into the field The need was far beyond what they could ever meet which is why He told them: 37 “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; 38 therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” (Matthew 9:37-38)
This metaphor shows that the Apostles by themselves were inadequate to meet the challenge of God's call. However, God states that when we pray He is always willing to call and send many more laborers to work in the field. It is through many members of the whole Body over many generations that Christs objectives can be met. We do not need to either reduce the challenge or depend only on a few gifted leaders to do it.
You seem to have the idea that the challenge of the Commission has to be met by each and every laborer. I see, instead, it as a joint mission in which each member of the Body plays the part he is called to play. Obviously no individual can to go to every nation. Therefore the orders He gave must be for the whole body. If this were not the case, then reaching people would be up to a relatively few specially gifted for that purpose. This would not be a wise distribution of responsibility for the Lord of the Harvest to command.
Is it such a strange thing for God to have us use prayer?
Jesus said "“The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. THEREFORE PRAY the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.” (Matthew 9:37-38)
It is because the harvest IS so vast that we need to pray since only God can call others into the work
That's not what I'm punctuated. I'm saying that the command is clearly to go, and to go to all nations. If the command applies to you, why haven't you gone?
Again, not my point. Please answer my question: if you believe God commissioned you to go, why haven't you gone?
But they did not hit the road, it took persecution to drive them out of Jerusalem, and even then, the apostles remained at headquarters, devoting themselves to non-missionary duties.
Acts 6:3,4
We will assign this responsibility to them and will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word
- When persecution broke out after Stephen's martyrdom, the believers were scattered, but the apostles stayed in Jerusalem.
- Mission Focus: During this time, the apostles' ministry was primarily focused on the Jewish population in and around Jerusalem, as depicted in the early chapters of Acts.
- Later Departures: While some tradition suggests they stayed in Jerusalem for roughly 12 years, others like Paul and Timothy, began, or eventually went on, missions to other areas.
Prayer is indeed a major part of the Great Commission to evangelize all nations.
Matthew 9
36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
They did hit the road. They started in Jerusalem and worked their way out. Just like Jesus said.
Again, if you believe Jesus commissioned you, why haven't you obeyed and gone?