Is hell forever?

  • Thread starter Thread starter selenah
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.


Jesus said that his true disciples would be hated and persecuted.Google the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Who are preaching the good news of God's kingdom in all the inhabited earth the same way that Jesus and his disciples did? (Acts 5:42;20:20)

I am presuming that there are a lot of different denominations represented on this site. Who has the truth?

That is for each person to decide for themselves. It's not about labels...it's about truth. There can only be one.

Yeah they aren't too popular with alot of people. Last saturday I was at church for a lunch and some of the women were talking about Jehovah's Witnesses and I'll just say they were pretty cruel about it.
 
Yeah I still believe that war is necessary and Christian should fight when they have to. Anyways this is waaaaaaaaaay off point lol so I'll save that for another thread sometime.

Whenever you're ready.....

I'm usually pretty open minded.......so much so that sometimes my brain falls out. Okay never mind bad joke.


I have trouble accepting that Jesus was not God. I can waver on what hell is, what happens when we die, are works required for salvation, and other issues but I think the Bible definitly says that Jesus is God. Jesus said He and the Father were one. I don't see how that doesn't support the trinity.

At John 10:30 Jesus says "I and the Father are one"..but if you go to John 17:22, he says, "Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."
Is Jesus saying that all of his disciples are God? Or is he saying that there is a unity of purpose between them? It doesn't have to mean that they are one and the same person.
I can be 'one' with another person if I am in complete agreement with them.

When you say Jesus is not God, I have trouble accepting the other things you say because you say Jesus will only be a high priest on the new earth :confused:
I didn't say that.

Jesus is the High Priest of all of his true disciples on earth right now. He is the mediator of the new covenant and ruler of those who follow him on earth since he took up his kingship. (Daniel 7:13, 14)
The majority of those who are the "chosen ones" are already in heaven in their positions, ready for when the rulership of Christ is extended to the earth. (which I believe will be very soon) This can only come about when God has finalised the rule of satan on earth. It will mean the end of corrupt human rule under his influence (Luke 4:5, 6) and the introduction of God's rulership under the leadership of his Christ. It will be taken by force. The kingdom "comes" by "crushing" corrupt human rulership out of existence.(Daniel 2:44)

Jesus will only be High Priest for those who worship the true God, (Yahweh or Jehovah)....in the new earth, ALL will worship the true God. The rebels will be gone and there will be an educational work undertaken for those who never knew Christ. (Jeremiah 31:34)
These will be the 'unrighteous' ones who come back in the general resurrection of the dead. (John 5:28, 29) People cannot be called out of their graves (tombs) unless they are still in them.

There is a big picture selenah and it is logical if you take time to investigate the scriptures thoroughly and with an open heart.

Just remember that people said bad things about Jesus too...it didn't make him wrong....it made them wrong. They were thoroughly misled by their religious leaders. Satan knows what works so he uses the same tactics.

Peace to you on your spiritual journey.
 
Last edited:
Whenever you're ready.....





At John 10:30 Jesus says "I and the Father are one"..but if you go to John 17:22, he says, "Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."
Is Jesus saying that all of his disciples are God? Or is he saying that there is a unity of purpose between them? It doesn't have to mean that they are one and the same person.
I can be 'one' with another person if I am in complete agreement with them.


I didn't say that.

Jesus is the High Priest of all of his true disciples on earth right now. He is the mediator of the new covenant and ruler of those who follow him on earth since he took up his kingship. (Daniel 7:13, 14)
The majority of those who are the "chosen ones" are already in heaven in their positions, ready for when the rulership of Christ is extended to the earth. (which I believe will be very soon) This can only come about when God has finalised the rule of satan on earth. It will mean the end of corrupt human rule under his influence (Luke 4:5, 6) and the introduction of God's rulership under the leadership of his Christ. It will be taken by force. The kingdom "comes" by "crushing" corrupt human rulership out of existence.(Daniel 2:44)

Jesus will only be High Priest for those who worship the true God, (Yahweh or Jehovah)....in the new earth, ALL will worship the true God. The rebels will be gone and there will be an educational work undertaken for those who never knew Christ. (Jeremiah 31:34)
These will be the 'unrighteous' ones who come back in the general resurrection of the dead. (John 5:28, 29) People cannot be called out of their graves (tombs) unless they are still in them.

There is a big picture selenah and it is logical if you take time to investigate the scriptures thoroughly and with an open heart.

Just remember that people said bad things about Jesus too...it didn't make him wrong....it made them wrong. They were thoroughly misled by their religious leaders. Satan knows what works so he uses the same tactics.

Peace to you on your spiritual journey.

Hmm okay well I don't know. I still think the Bible says that Jesus is God, but I don't really feel prepared to debate it. I have too many other doubts and questions about other things so any arguments I give will be weak if I'm not even sure if I believe them. I'll re-read your posts and think about them.
 
This is off topic but I will respond cfultz3.

Early Trinitarian Quotes

There are cult groups....who deny the Trinity and state that the doctrine was not mentioned until the 4th Century until after the time of the Council of Nicea (325). This council "was called by Emperor Constantine to deal with the error of Arianism which was threatening the unity of the Christian Church."

You don't have to belong to a cult to dismiss the trinity as scriptural. It is simply not a Bible teaching.

And if you think there was unity in the "Christian" church by the time of Constantine, then you don't really know much about church history. The rot set in long before Constantine's time. He merely took advantage of the weakened state of the Christian faith to fuse it with paganism in order to consolidate his divided empire. He introduced one state religion, which "Christianised" all the pagan Roman festivals so that the pagan population would feel right at home in the Christian church. What then transpired is the travesty of the Roman church and its bloody history. Christ was never in it.....how could he be party to such heinous acts of corruption and tyranny?

There was a foretold apostasy that was manifesting itself even in the days of the apostles. Both Peter and Paul warned about it. (2 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1-3; 2 Tim 2:16-19) The traitors, like Judas Iscariot, came from within the faith.

The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea:
Apostasy was 'alive and well' before Nicea too. The presence of the apostles was all that prevented it from gaining full control. It was not until after the last apostle John penned his contribution to the Christian scriptures that it gained its full momentum, at the close of the first century.
The so called "Church Fathers" were not immune to the false teachings and influences that arose in the congregations at that time.

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
"O Lord God almighty... I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Jesus himself spoke of 'Father, son and holy spirit', but he never once gave the holy spirit a name or a personality. He never once claimed the holy spirit or himself to be God. He identified himself as God's son...never as "God the son"

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

Jesus said his disciples should baptize others "In the name of Father, son and holy spirit" but it still does not constitute a triune godhead.

The Father is Almighty God...a title that is exclusively his. The son is never called Almighty even though he is a god-like being; the very first of God's creation. Through this "only begotten son" came the production of all other things. (Col 1:15, 16)

He is even called "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6, 7 but he is not once called Almighty.

The holy spirit is God's power, sent to accomplish his will. It was used in the creation of the universe. (Gen 1:1, 2) It is never quoted as the source of Jesus teachings. He said that these were from his Father.

At John 17:3 Jesus prayed, "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."
Why is the holy spirit not mentioned here? Why is knowledge of this equal part of the godhead unnecessary?

When Stephen was stoned he was granted a vision in which he saw the Father and son, but no holy spirit...Why?

If, as the anti-Trinitarians maintain, the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was never taught until the council of Nicea in 325, then why do these quotes exist? The answer is simple: the Trinity is a biblical doctrine and it was taught before the council of Nicea in 325 A.D.
These quotes exist because the apostasy was well under way by then.

The early church believed in the Trinity, as is evidenced by the quotes above, and it wasn't necessary to really make them official. It wasn't until errors started to creep in that councils began to meet to discuss the Trinity, as well as other doctrines that came under fire.

The Jews did not believe in a trinity...they still don't. Jesus was a Jew...he did not teach it.

It is blasphemous to place the son on equal footing with his Father.

The Shema stated, “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.” (Deut 6:4)

It was man who carved God up into three parts of an incomprehensible trinity.
 
Hmm okay well I don't know. I still think the Bible says that Jesus is God, but I don't really feel prepared to debate it. I have too many other doubts and questions about other things so any arguments I give will be weak if I'm not even sure if I believe them. I'll re-read your posts and think about them.

reread them, but notice in her response she still hasn't said that she believe that Jesus IS God, but that He is the High Priest NOW not just in the New Heaven.

personally I would like her just be be clear.

Molly, do you believe Jesus is God or not?
 
It is blasphemous to place the son on equal footing with his Father.

Are the following passages of scripture also blasphemous...

Phil 2:5-11

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 1 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jn 5:16-23

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (Here is a work that the Son is doing that the Father does not do, very interesting)
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
 
Last edited:
wait i just scrolled back a page and saw the response. anyways Selena I haven't the time to respond to Molly with scriptures, but I'm sure someone else will step up.

I have to travel. love you talk to you later.

Try not to let her twist up your head too much kay?
 
This is off topic but I will respond cfultz3.

What happened to refuting the others who were listed?
What happened to the link?
What happend to the list of cults?

You edited and gave no indication of having done so and still quoted. That is misleading. By all means, I am willing to talk about this in another thread, but not if you are going to edit quotes to say what you want them to say, without indication.

Who is this Lord:

"Jehovah said to my Lord." (Psa 110:1, Mat 22:44, Lk 20:42, Act 2:34)

"O my soul, you have said to Jehovah, 'You are my Lord...'" (Psa 16:2)

"I prayed to Jehovah, my God and made my confession, and said, "Lord, the great and dreadful God..." (Dan 9:4)

"Jehovah said....then said the Lord..." (Amo 7:8)


There is certainly only one Jehovah:

"...Jehovah our God is one Jehovah" (Deu 6:4)


There is certainly only one Lord:

"The Lord ouir God is one Lord" (Mk 12:29)

"...Jesus Christ, He is Lord of all" (Act 10:36, etc...)

"God our Savior" (1Ti 1:1). Who is Jesus? (2Pet 2:20)



Jesus is not God?

"...Jehovah is our defence, and the Holy One of Israel, our King" (Psa 89:18) (KJV: inserts "is" between Israel and King)

"our Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts is His name, the Holy one of Israel". (Isa 47:4, 49:4, 54:5)

As concerning Jesus being the Holy One: Mar 1:24, Lk 4:34, Act 2:27, 3:14, 13:35, 1Jn2:20



 
boring la de da!

well we can make it more exciting

pie-in-the-face.jpg
 
I always assumed it was forever. But I try not to think about that stuff.
 
The only reason hell is forever is that a person refuses to believe God in this lifetime. When will that person get a chance to believe after He or She dies? Only if you believed in reincarnation would you get another chance. This is logic.
 
Are the following passages of scripture also blasphemous...

No. But they are not saying what you think they are saying. It's all in the way you read them. Without guidance from the holy spirit, you can make the words say whatever you want. Why do you think there are so many denominations all teaching different things? Satan is the master of confusion. Why do you think his empire is called Babylon?

Phil 2:5-11

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 1 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If you read that scripture from a few different translations...especially the ones that are not biased towards the trinity, you will find that Jesus was saying the opposite of what this translation says.

e.g. The NLT renders those verses (with footnotes)....

" You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God,[a] [or Being in the form of God.]
he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.


Some other translations render Phil 2:6....


"1869: “who, being in the form of God, did not regard it as a thing to be grasped at to be on an equality with God.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

1965: “He—truly of divine nature!—never self-confidently made himself equal to God.” Das Neue Testament, revised edition, by Friedrich Pfäfflin.

1968: “who, although being in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God a thing to greedily make his own.” La Bibbia Concordata.

1976: “He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.” Today’s English Version.

1984: “who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

1985: “Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped.” The New Jerusalem Bible.


He was existing "in God's form". So the NLT, translating the opening words of that sentence with a trinitarian bias, is dishonest. The original text did not say that Jesus was God.
This is why we must be careful about the translation we use and why we need to study using a wide variety of translations...not just one. We also need to use Strong's to help us with original language renderings.

So, what "form" does God have? He is a spirit (John 4:24) and those that dwell with him in the heavenly realm are also spirits. It is telling us that Jesus was a spirit being in heaven before he came to earth.

Col 1:15, 16 backs that up...
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."

He is the image of his Father, but he is NOT God. Creation came "through" him not "from" him.

There is ONE Creator...Jehovah God.

9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

If Jesus was God, how could he be elevated to a place of highest honor?....if he was God, he would already have that position. His name would already be above all other names.


"Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

The "Lord" Jesus is not the "Sovereign Lord Jehovah". All of the things Jesus did was to bring honor and glory to his Father...not to himself.

Jn 5:16-23

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
What is this saying?

Was Jesus claiming that he was God? NO! He was claiming that Jehovah was his Father...the Jews claimed that this made him equal with God.

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

What is this saying?

The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

If Jesus was God, why did he need to follow the Father without a single thought for his own equal share in the godhead? How could Jesus' will be different from his other 'selves'? ("Not as I will, but as you will")

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (Here is a work that the Son is doing that the Father does not do, very interesting)

Interesting indeed considering that the work of judging was "committed" to him BY WHOM?


23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Honor is not worship. God has told us to honor humans who are in authority...does that make them equal with God?

Trinitarians will read into scripture what they want to see.

If you wish to worship a three headed god.....you are free to do so but please don't expect those of us who haven't swallowed the lie to accept the feeble attempts of trinitarian 'scholars' to back it up with scripture....it simply isn't there. There is NOT ONE direct statement from either Jesus or his Father that categorically states that the Father and son share godship. Nowhere is holy spirit called God.

When the 'great apostasy' was introduced around the beginning of the second century, it corrupted Christianity. The first thing that was tampered with was the truth about the person of God. He came to be portrayed as a three headed monster who tortured people in flames forever.

Satan's first lie had to be perpetuated so belief in an immortal soul was also adopted. Death became another form of life and changed the truth into a series of lies.These lies have been presented as Christian truth for centuries and it is the only "Christianity" that people have ever known. Those who question it are touted as "cults" and given a bad name. Jesus said to expect this...it happened to him too.

Hell is simply the grave. When people die they sleep in their graves awaiting a resurrection, either to heaven for the 'chosen ones', or earth for their subjects. This fulfills God's first purpose.

God is ONE. He alone is God. He has a 'firstborn' son. He is a creation of his Father..."only begotten" means an only child. He is the only direct creation of his Father, even though he is not the only "son " of God.
All other things were brought into existence by the son, using God's holy spirit to accomplish the task. (Prov 8:22, 30)

The truth is unalterable.
 
From early childhood, I was taught that the soul was immortal, that it simply floated away when the body died, either to heaven or down into hell. But Genesis doesn't say that. In truth, I see nowhere in scripture anything said about the soul being immortal. I've come to believe most of the modern-day church doesn't even understand what the soul is. Scriptures say that when God breathed the breath of life into Adam, Adam became a living soul. Other translations put it differently. Some say Adam became a living being. Others say he became a living mind. I think the word ''became'' is the operative word here. In other words, the soul didn't come into being until the breath of life quickened Adam's body to life. Only then did Adam become a living soul. And no, I don't believe the soul and the breath of life/and or spirit are the same thing. If they were, why wouldn't they be called the same thing? When God said Adam would die, that's exactly what He meant. Only Christ can grant eternal life. So why would Christ give us something we already have? The belief in never-ending torment is closely related to the eternal soul belief, in my opinion. If the soul can't die, then it has to go somewhere, right? And if not into heaven, then obviously down into hell. But scriptures say that the soul that sins shall die. It doesn't say the soul that sins shall go to a place of eternal torment.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Ezekiel 33:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]— "As I live, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his evil ways and live; turn ye— turn ye from your evil ways—for why will you die?''[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 3:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]—[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish— but have eternal life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 21:4—[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]''And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things have passed away.''[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 
From early childhood, I was taught that the soul was immortal, that it simply floated away when the body died, either to heaven or down into hell. But Genesis doesn't say that. In truth, I see nowhere in scripture anything said about the soul being immortal. I've come to believe most of the modern-day church doesn't even understand what the soul is. Scriptures say that when God breathed the breath of life into Adam, Adam became a living soul. Other translations put it differently. Some say Adam became a living being. Others say he became a living mind. I think the word ''became'' is the operative word here. In other words, the soul didn't come into being until the breath of life quickened Adam's body to life. Only then did Adam become a living soul. And no, I don't believe the soul and the breath of life/and or spirit are the same thing. If they were, why wouldn't they be called the same thing? When God said Adam would die, that's exactly what He meant. Only Christ can grant eternal life. So why would Christ give us something we already have? The belief in never-ending torment is closely related to the eternal soul belief, in my opinion. If the soul can't die, then it has to go somewhere, right? And if not into heaven, then obviously down into hell. But scriptures say that the soul that sins shall die. It doesn't say the soul that sins shall go to a place of eternal torment.


[FONT=&quot]Ezekiel 33:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]— "As I live, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his evil ways and live; turn ye— turn ye from your evil ways—for why will you die?''[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 3:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]—[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish— but have eternal life.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Revelation 21:4—[/FONT][FONT=&quot]''And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things have passed away.''[/FONT]
That's interesting. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the soul dies and doesn't go to hell. I had never heard or thought of that before then. One thing doesn't make sense though, if all unsaved souls die and are gone, why did God make hell?
 
That's interesting. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the soul dies and doesn't go to hell. I had never heard or thought of that before then. One thing doesn't make sense though, if all unsaved souls die and are gone, why did God make hell?

That is just the point selenah. Hell is nothing more than the grave. Everyone who has died has gone there...even Jesus.

Sheol (Hebrew) and hades (Greek) are not the same as gehenna or the lake of fire. Hades is emptied and then destroyed. The sin of Adam that results in death will be wiped away, never to claim human life again. (Rev 21:3, 4)

Gehenna (often translated as 'hell') was the place that Jesus said the religious leaders of his day would go.

He was not sentencing them to an endless punishment of fiery torment, he was simply saying that God would not remember them in the resurrection. God would not give them back the gift of life. It was not more horrible than that. The Father is not a fiend who enjoys watching the wicked suffer.

Did you know that there were no prisons in Israel? God never incarcerated people as punishment, let alone torture them. He made criminals compensate their victims and those who committed capital offences were put to death. Justice was always served and the punishment always fitted the crime.

How is it justice to punish people who were born with a tendency to be sinful to an eternity of punishment for a few short years of sin?

Jehovah desires ALL to be saved, but he knows that it is not going to happen. Some have sinned unforgivably and have forfeited their right to life. That is just.

Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life....simple. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: pickles
John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again John 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell
luke 12:47-48
47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked
People born of the Spirit do not see the second death, but the other people are soul and body and both will be destroyed in hell. The degree of punishment is based on what is written in the books
Rev 20:12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done
This is my understanding of it.
 
That is just the point selenah. Hell is nothing more than the grave. Everyone who has died has gone there...even Jesus.

Sheol (Hebrew) and hades (Greek) are not the same as gehenna or the lake of fire. Hades is emptied and then destroyed. The sin of Adam that results in death will be wiped away, never to claim human life again. (Rev 21:3, 4)

Gehenna (often translated as 'hell') was the place that Jesus said the religious leaders of his day would go.

He was not sentencing them to an endless punishment of fiery torment, he was simply saying that God would not remember them in the resurrection. God would not give them back the gift of life. It was not more horrible than that. The Father is not a fiend who enjoys watching the wicked suffer.

Did you know that there were no prisons in Israel? God never incarcerated people as punishment, let alone torture them. He made criminals compensate their victims and those who committed capital offences were put to death. Justice was always served and the punishment always fitted the crime.

How is it justice to punish people who were born with a tendency to be sinful to an eternity of punishment for a few short years of sin?

Jehovah desires ALL to be saved, but he knows that it is not going to happen. Some have sinned unforgivably and have forfeited their right to life. That is just.

Eternal death is the opposite of eternal life....simple. :)

Some of what you say makes sense. I just keep wondering what Luke 16:23-24 is about if hell isn't a place of torment?

Luke 16:23-24 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

:confused: